[quote name='agaur' post='634920' date='May 12 2007, 10:05 PM']I agree , everyone suffering with the MMT problem should take collective action. Thanks for providing the address.
AG

[quote name='R Tang' post='634862' date='May 12 2007, 04:21 PM']
[Dear all:
Further to my postings, I recieved a letter from Vechicle and Operator servcies Agency (VOSA). They have asked Toyota GB to investigate the MMt gear box problem and to see whether "a feature of design or construction liable to cause significant risk if personal injury or death". So please if you could write to the following regarding your problems, that would be great!

Mr Martin Ryder
Automotive Engineer
Vehicle Safety Branch
VOSA
Vehicle Safety Branch
Berkelery House
Croydon Street
Bristol BS5 0DA

www.vosa.gov.uk[/quote]


I bought my Toyota Verso MMT in Dec 2006, even though I was aware of the problem after going through this forum. Was devastated when it surfaced in March. Although its been fixed, there is always nagging feeling it would happen again. So I would advise not to go for the MMT model.

[quote name='jsb30' post='632243' date='May 1 2007, 03:15 PM']Hello to all you MMT verso owners,

I am new to this forum but I am looking at buying a new car for my increasing family ( I have a 15 month old and am expecting a further arrival in late July). Having looked at various car magazines, the Which recommendations and other literature I narrowed down my list of possible choices to a Touran, Honda FRV or Verso.

Having driven all three of these but unfortunately not the MMT version of the verso (just the manual) I was impressed with the toyota verso and it definitely ticks most boxes but I definitely need an automatic. My question to you all is do you believe that the new Verso TR or spirit models have the same problems or should I steer clear of the toyota mmt altogether.

Also I was wondering is it possible for a new verso to be ordered as a full automatic or do they only make a MMT model.


:help:[/quote]
[/quote]

I too am suffering with the Verso MMT problem.
My car is nearly 3 years old and the problem manifested itself about a year ago.


The Multi Mode Transmission has let me down on several occasions and has put itself into neutral, thus loosing all drive capability. The most dangerous occasion was when I was driving along a busy road in Derbyshire. I was proceeding along the road when the car slipped into neutral. I was forced to stop the car, turn off the engine for about a minute a re-start. Only then was I able to engage drive.

This has happened several times since and on one occasion I had to re-start the engine three times before I was able to engage drive.

This could be a most dangerous situation for somebody driving over a level crossing or along a motorway.

I once held up traffic for a while on a narrow road as I went through the procedure of "re-booting" my car.

I complained to Toyota and work was carried out at the Inchcape (Nottingham) site to correct the problem. I was told that there were 3 other cars in with the same problem as mine.

After a few days I got may car back and everything appeared OK for a week or so. Then I noticed another problem. This time the car indicated that It was in first gear but when I came to drive away, the car stayed put an simply reved.

I reported this problem to Inchcape and they did some intial tests. They said there was a lot wrong with may car. I booked my car in to Inchcape for repairs and they said they couldn't locate the problem (18/6/07) but a mechanic said he thought he knew what was wrong. They said they needed to order in parts and would contact me when the parts arrived.

To date I have received no indication that the parts have arrived.

This problem has obviously tarnished the good name of Toyota but I think they should be made to carry out garanteed corrective work or replace the car with a manual gearbox version.

Dear ij.edge:

Sorry to hear re: problem. I don't think you should be driving the car if they haven't fixed it properly. Ask your dealer to provide you with a hire car. I think you have the right to one as this is the second time it has been in the garage. Failing that, ring Toyota GB and ask them to get you a car.

As for the MMt. Toyota GB has issued some papers(See pervious postings) for their dealers so make sure your dealer has one and changed every thing as suggested. Keep a copy of the work. Finally, like most of us, write to VOSA.

Good luck.

Hi everyone,

Just thought you might want to see this post about my new 2008 Verso SR:

[url="http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16378&st=20&gopid=659434&#entry659434"]http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry659434[/url]

Have been experiencing the "Flashing N" problem for about a year now.... thought it was just something up with my vehicle until I decided to do a search on google and found this forum... I was amazed to discover that so many others are experiencing exactly the same problem and somewhat dismayed at the lack of any solution from Toyota - especially as this topic was started in March 2005. I've written to VOSA as requested in this forum as I almost had a collision last week due to the "Flashing N" problem - my wife is too nervous to drive the car now. We've had 6 occurences in the last week alone. The car was in at the dealership today but for the second time they have not been able to find a fault. I've since been driving the car in 'M' mode - but I don't know if that makes any difference. It's a real shame as apart from this I love everything else about the car.

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

[quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]

[quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]

[quote name='bjw' post='667494' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:12 PM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]
[/quote]

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time

Hello Red Yaris 54

At last we do finally agree on something

[b]The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)[/b]

Yes you are quite right but sweeping this under the carpet until the VOSA comes to a decision will suit Toyota GB more than the motorists who are stuck with there cars.
I don't think any comments made on this web site would influence the VOSA in anyway and if it increases the pressure on Toyota to sort it out once and for all good!. and of course your opinion is as valid as anybody else ! but the good thing about living in the UK we live in a democracy and can express one
It also may make future customers aware of the problems that some people have encountered with the MMT gearbox on the Verso and allow them to make an informed choice it certainly made me aware and I decided not to buy a MMT and went for a manual gearbox

It may be of interest to some of you that a Toyota PR man had made some posts on the Rav forum ! I posted the link on there of this thread and and invited the Toyota representative to read and reply I received an email from him and have posted it below
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Forwarded From Toyota PR

Hi,

I followed your link in the RAV4 thread and talked with the technical guys here. I can't really add much - VOSA are aware and there is a meeting soon to discuss the matter, all of which is already in the thread.

It would be wrong to paint the VOSA meeting as some sort of summit from which will be handed down a degree - from either side - but it will provide a next stage so best to wait until that has happened I think.

Cheers,

Scott
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I know it does not add anymore to the thread but at least you know there will be a meeting soon and Toyota know it is being discussed in these forums
I was pleased Toyota PR replied and wish they would take a more active part in the forums

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667527' date='Sep 1 2007, 12:49 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='667494' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:12 PM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]
[/quote]

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, [b][font="Arial Black"]any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time[/font][/b]
[/quote]

[b]Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR[/b]

Maybe you now believe me.

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='679527' date='Oct 6 2007, 12:44 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667527' date='Sep 1 2007, 12:49 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='667494' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:12 PM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]
[/quote]

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, [b][font="Arial Black"]any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time[/font][/b]
[/quote]

[b]Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR[/b]

Maybe you now believe me.
[/quote]

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in [b]FACTS[/b] and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .
I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit
On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise

[quote name='bjw' post='679555' date='Oct 6 2007, 10:51 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='679527' date='Oct 6 2007, 12:44 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667527' date='Sep 1 2007, 12:49 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='667494' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:12 PM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]
[/quote]

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, [b][font="Arial Black"]any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time[/font][/b]
[/quote]

[b]Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR[/b]

Maybe you now believe me.
[/quote]

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in [b]FACTS[/b] and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .
I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit
On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise
[/quote]

QUOTE: (Scott, Toyota PR)............"so best to wait until that has happened I think."

QUOTE: "On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise"..........That is an Interesting theory that you have ruled out there .................I would not wish to tread on Scotts toes

[b]I repeat............any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time [/b]

I was the proud owner of a Corolla Verso MMT from when it was first launched. I say proud as I loved the car. I too had the dreaded N problem during the first year and then nothing for a while. But during it's second year it occurred several times and despite having all the modifications carried out it still continued. When it was coming up to the end of the 3 year warranty, I like many others cut our losses and got rid of it. I too have written to VOSA as I don't feel they should still be selling this car. When I decided to sell it. I asked my local Toyota Dealership if they had sorted out the MMT problems on the new models as if they had I would have bought another one. They came back that the gearbox was still the original but they were not aware of any problems. The fact that my car had been in the garage numerous times didn't register. When I questioned it they said mine was the only one but they did admit that they hadn't sold many MMT models.

My query is, where do all of us stand that just gave up and sold our cars at a loss so as to have safe driving? If VOSA can do anything, and I hope they do, and the cars are recalled, do we still have any redress?

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='680174' date='Oct 9 2007, 12:01 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='679555' date='Oct 6 2007, 10:51 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='679527' date='Oct 6 2007, 12:44 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667527' date='Sep 1 2007, 12:49 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='667494' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:12 PM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='667491' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:04 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='667485' date='Aug 31 2007, 09:52 PM'][quote name='Paul E' post='667456' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:41 PM']And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul[/quote]

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth [b]they will not say[/b]
[/quote]

The Executive did say this: [b]"should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle". [/b]

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.
[/quote]

[b]Do you have any facts to support this :[/b]
[/quote]

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, [b][font="Arial Black"]any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time[/font][/b]
[/quote]

[b]Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR[/b]

Maybe you now believe me.
[/quote]

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in [b]FACTS[/b] and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .
I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit
On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise
[/quote]

QUOTE: (Scott, Toyota PR)............"so best to wait until that has happened I think."

QUOTE: "On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise"..........That is an Interesting theory that you have ruled out there .................I would not wish to tread on Scotts toes

[b]I repeat............any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time [/b]
[/quote]

I do not know why Red yaris 54 does not want any discussion on the MMT saga !this is a a Toyota forum for Toyota owners to express there views and ask for help with problems they may have .
Why do you store so much faith that the VOSA will handle this problem any better than they did for Renault drivers who bonnets flew up when driving or the Vauxhall drivers when there cars would slip off the handbrake I believe according to watchdog they could find no fault yet when examined by an independent engineer paid for by watchdog the faults were identified and the VOSA are looking into it again I believe this to be true did anyone else see the program to confirm this is correct

You say it is pointless to discuss this until the VOSA have carried out there investigation ! I believe it was you who said until we had the figures from Toyota as to how many vehicles are affected we should not discuss it ,when Toyota refused to give these figures it was wait until the VOSA have investigated it .

I am now looking into the future and I suggest this is how this thread will go

Lets wait until Toyota have had a chance to evaluate the findings of the VOSA

lets wait until there technical department have looked at the best way to put a solution in place

some of the cars effected are now old and many have been sold by there original owners and its now not really economically viable to take any action

This thread was started in march 2005 that's over 2 years ago I admit Toyota have tried to sort out this problem and I am not suggesting any other manufacturer would have behaved any differently in fact probably not as well but it does not alter the fact many people have spent a considerable amount of money on these cars.
Many like Hilary have taken a big loss on the car when sold just to get shut of there problem

regards

Dear All:

Firstly, I dont agree with red yaris that the discussion should not carry on until VOSA has done their investigations. You have been lucky because you are not the one suffering from this MMt problems! Obviously, this problem is not a "one-off" and affected a lot of Verso Mmt owners, so I do think as consumers we do have right to get Toyota to sort some thing out.

Second, having spoken to Twinspark Toyota who fixed my car, they have told me that in fact many Verso still have this problem because other dealers have not carried out the repairs properly! They had about 5 Versos, including mine, in which other dealers did nt change every thing!

Finally, I am off to the Tokyo Motor show in 27th Oct. I will bring a letter to the Priesident of Toyota re: MMt problems, to show how serious we are!!!

Hello MMT drivers and debaters,

I’ve been reading all the messages on problems with the MMT gear box and found it extremely interesting. This message is my first one here, and I apologise for its length, if that seems a bit unusual.

I own since one year a CV MMT built in the fall of 2004. It totals 23.000 miles, 12.500 of them by me. Like several among you, I’m a satisfied MMT driver. My car hasn’t had a single problem so far! I bought my CV in exchange for a Corsa 1.2 Easytronic. The latter had a simpler robotized manual gear box. I had been using it daily for five years without any problem. I’ve been driving other automatic gearbox cars like a Rover Vitesse (sold after 100.000 miles), and a Picnic (which we still own: 120.000 miles).

I had tried the CV MMT three times before buying it. It took me a couple of weeks to adapt my driving style to it, and after that, I became very pleased with it. The Toyota dealer I bought it from offered me a 2 years Toyota extension, which just started running. For the moment, I feel safe.

I agree with all those saying this is not a conventional automatic gearbox, and that the user best adapts his style according to the recommendations provided by some of you.

I am a rather active member of the French TCVII Forum. Over the last 2 ½ years, we had about five cases of MMT failures, 4 of them were concerned with the “N” Symptoms. All of them were repaired under guarantee, albeit not always correctly from the first time. No relapses have been reported. All these owners are satisfied MMT drivers and continued to be afterwards.

My reading made me aware of the fact that in the UK, the MMT models are much more popular then in other countries. To me, it seems normal that there are more reports here on failures. We have many more reports on failures with diesel injectors, simply because in France, 75% of the TCVII are sold with this type of engine, and none of these is MMT equipped. I must say I do not consider the number of failures reported here over a 2 ½ years period to be a landslide. In the absence of more information, they could as well indicate a nice robustness, since no car part is fail safe.

Reading the messages, however, instructed me about [b]several points that are very useful to know[/b].

1. Several times, repeated failures occurred on the same car, even when the complete system got repaired. In some cases, the workshop apparently did not exchange all the parts they should have, and this may have caused some of the relapses. It can therefore be strongly recommended that customers enquire for the full details of the repair, which should be effectuated according to the procedure described in Service bulletin CP5013 from May 2005. I can understand the despair and dismay of the owners who had expected better.
2. In some cases, failure occurs in circumstances which were considered dangerous by the drivers. An investigation is being conducted by the VOSA. This came as a big surprise to me, and seems worrying indeed. In my opinion, if officially recognized as authentic, one such case is one too much. I hope this investigation will shed light on the question.
3. One forum member tried obtaining from Toyota reliable figures on the percentage of MMT cars which have suffered from failures. Unfortunately, he was turned down. I sincerely regret this, since in this way, Toyota contributes to the persistence of all kinds of hypotheses, which cannot be verified. I’ll give an example below. Unfortunately for us consumers, this kind of information is never provided by any of the car manufacturers, unless forced by law. I hope they realise how this policy can tarn a reputation in a highly competitive marketplace. Forums like this attract a wide readership, and many people tend to overreact a bit upon reading even a few reports of people understandably devastated by their bad experience.
4. A somewhat more reliable source for enquiring about customer satisfaction and car reliability then a Forum are the yearly JD Power reports or the like, and the statistics of car assistance associations (I do not know their name in the UK). Globally, on the Continent, the TCVII, Corolla and Yaris models seem to give satisfaction to their owners and rank among the most reliable cars on the market. Unfortunately, for the MMT models, no separate statistics are known, although I may have missed some.

This brings me to my final point, and the reason [b]I wish to contribute to your ongoing debate[/b].

Another member, known as reliable and serious, has reported a statement of a technician of his workshop, according to which the CV MMT cars built until December 2005 were all having a construction failure known to Toyota, and that sooner or later, they would all go down the road to failure. He also stated that after December 2005, Toyota fixed the problem, and that the failure rate since then had dropped drastically. The fix consists of the addition of a metal or rubber joint somewhere in the system. (Sorry for not being more precise, I am not a car technician). In the absence of this modification, it was said that oil could spill on the clutch disk when the gearbox was put under strong torque demand, like during climbing, stop and go traffic, or at roundabouts. Toyota was said to have decided not to make a recall, but instead, to repair the cars under guarantee, as they come in for repair.

I wish to make it clear here that this is an example of a non-verified statement which anybody can read on our Forum. I cannot take any warranty or liability for its content. After giving it some thought, I decided it would be worthwhile to bring this matter up here, in view of the larger number of MMT cars in the UK and your experience with this matter.

Messages of the kind reported on here raise the following questions:

1. Do CV MMT cars built before December 2005 have a “vice caché”, or hidden failure, known to the manufacturer? Was it considered by them as not needing a recall, since it is not representing a danger for car safety, and since it is always repaired under guarantee?
2. What if indeed in certain circumstances, a failure of this nature involves exposing the car’s occupants to dangerous situations? If it could be proven that Toyota neglected to take a more precautious attitude, like they did with the passenger airbag, are they not running the risk of a large number of complaints before justice?
3. [b]What will happen to owners who have a failure after the end of the guarantee period, and even encounter more failures?[/b] I noticed already at least one such case in your forum, but I did not find out whether Toyota accepted to pay for part or all of the expenses. These may amount to ¼ of the remaining value of the car! We will see an increasing number of owners facing this problem. In case the MMT had a vice cache, will Toyota give these customers free repair? Until which mileage?
4. What will be the [b]impact on reselling an MMT car[/b] when its reputation continues to go down?

I think these questions merit our attention and need clarification by finding the real facts. I recently wrote a letter to Toyota in my country formulating these questions, but individual action has little chance of success. The best way would be to engage a discussion with Toyota Europe officials. Although very often, this is utopia, there is an interesting precedent in Spain. The Landcruiser Club there had received on its Forum several complaints about Diesel injectors, and the administrators of that site had succeeded in having a meeting with important Toyota Spain managers and officials. Toyota has issued a statement saying that all owners suffering from this problem would receive free repairs, even well after the end of the guarantee. This shows that perseverance and the proper approach may work.

I believe it would be just fair and in Toyota Europe’s interest if they would accept to consider the questions formulated above. The MMT technology may well have had initial problems which were since taken care of. Other cases have occurred in this branch of industry.

I am not writing to you as a Forum official, but as a simple TCV MMT owner. I know however, that the French CVT MMT owners would greet a kind of a Europe wide consumer request. Would you be interested to collaborate on a European level to bring this matter up to Toyota Europe, the only level which I feel is effective?

Mister MMT.

[quote name='Mister MMT' post='686399' date='Oct 29 2007, 01:02 AM']Hello MMT drivers and debaters,

I’ve been reading all the messages on problems with the MMT gear box and found it extremely interesting. This message is my first one here, and I apologise for its length, if that seems a bit unusual.

I own since one year a CV MMT built in the fall of 2004. It totals 23.000 miles, 12.500 of them by me. Like several among you, I’m a satisfied MMT driver. My car hasn’t had a single problem so far! I bought my CV in exchange for a Corsa 1.2 Easytronic. The latter had a simpler robotized manual gear box. I had been using it daily for five years without any problem. I’ve been driving other automatic gearbox cars like a Rover Vitesse (sold after 100.000 miles), and a Picnic (which we still own: 120.000 miles).

I had tried the CV MMT three times before buying it. It took me a couple of weeks to adapt my driving style to it, and after that, I became very pleased with it. The Toyota dealer I bought it from offered me a 2 years Toyota extension, which just started running. For the moment, I feel safe.

I agree with all those saying this is not a conventional automatic gearbox, and that the user best adapts his style according to the recommendations provided by some of you.

I am a rather active member of the French TCVII Forum. Over the last 2 ½ years, we had about five cases of MMT failures, 4 of them were concerned with the “N” Symptoms. All of them were repaired under guarantee, albeit not always correctly from the first time. No relapses have been reported. All these owners are satisfied MMT drivers and continued to be afterwards.

My reading made me aware of the fact that in the UK, the MMT models are much more popular then in other countries. To me, it seems normal that there are more reports here on failures. We have many more reports on failures with diesel injectors, simply because in France, 75% of the TCVII are sold with this type of engine, and none of these is MMT equipped. I must say I do not consider the number of failures reported here over a 2 ½ years period to be a landslide. In the absence of more information, they could as well indicate a nice robustness, since no car part is fail safe.

Reading the messages, however, instructed me about [b]several points that are very useful to know[/b].

1. Several times, repeated failures occurred on the same car, even when the complete system got repaired. In some cases, the workshop apparently did not exchange all the parts they should have, and this may have caused some of the relapses. It can therefore be strongly recommended that customers enquire for the full details of the repair, which should be effectuated according to the procedure described in Service bulletin CP5013 from May 2005. I can understand the despair and dismay of the owners who had expected better.
2. In some cases, failure occurs in circumstances which were considered dangerous by the drivers. An investigation is being conducted by the VOSA. This came as a big surprise to me, and seems worrying indeed. In my opinion, if officially recognized as authentic, one such case is one too much. I hope this investigation will shed light on the question.
3. One forum member tried obtaining from Toyota reliable figures on the percentage of MMT cars which have suffered from failures. Unfortunately, he was turned down. I sincerely regret this, since in this way, Toyota contributes to the persistence of all kinds of hypotheses, which cannot be verified. I’ll give an example below. Unfortunately for us consumers, this kind of information is never provided by any of the car manufacturers, unless forced by law. I hope they realise how this policy can tarn a reputation in a highly competitive marketplace. Forums like this attract a wide readership, and many people tend to overreact a bit upon reading even a few reports of people understandably devastated by their bad experience.
4. A somewhat more reliable source for enquiring about customer satisfaction and car reliability then a Forum are the yearly JD Power reports or the like, and the statistics of car assistance associations (I do not know their name in the UK). Globally, on the Continent, the TCVII, Corolla and Yaris models seem to give satisfaction to their owners and rank among the most reliable cars on the market. Unfortunately, for the MMT models, no separate statistics are known, although I may have missed some.

This brings me to my final point, and the reason [b]I wish to contribute to your ongoing debate[/b].

Another member, known as reliable and serious, has reported a statement of a technician of his workshop, according to which the CV MMT cars built until December 2005 were all having a construction failure known to Toyota, and that sooner or later, they would all go down the road to failure. He also stated that after December 2005, Toyota fixed the problem, and that the failure rate since then had dropped drastically. The fix consists of the addition of a metal or rubber joint somewhere in the system. (Sorry for not being more precise, I am not a car technician). In the absence of this modification, it was said that oil could spill on the clutch disk when the gearbox was put under strong torque demand, like during climbing, stop and go traffic, or at roundabouts. Toyota was said to have decided not to make a recall, but instead, to repair the cars under guarantee, as they come in for repair.

I wish to make it clear here that this is an example of a non-verified statement which anybody can read on our Forum. I cannot take any warranty or liability for its content. After giving it some thought, I decided it would be worthwhile to bring this matter up here, in view of the larger number of MMT cars in the UK and your experience with this matter.

Messages of the kind reported on here raise the following questions:

1. Do CV MMT cars built before December 2005 have a “vice caché”, or hidden failure, known to the manufacturer? Was it considered by them as not needing a recall, since it is not representing a danger for car safety, and since it is always repaired under guarantee?
2. What if indeed in certain circumstances, a failure of this nature involves exposing the car’s occupants to dangerous situations? If it could be proven that Toyota neglected to take a more precautious attitude, like they did with the passenger airbag, are they not running the risk of a large number of complaints before justice?
3. [b]What will happen to owners who have a failure after the end of the guarantee period, and even encounter more failures?[/b] I noticed already at least one such case in your forum, but I did not find out whether Toyota accepted to pay for part or all of the expenses. These may amount to ¼ of the remaining value of the car! We will see an increasing number of owners facing this problem. In case the MMT had a vice cache, will Toyota give these customers free repair? Until which mileage?
4. What will be the [b]impact on reselling an MMT car[/b] when its reputation continues to go down?

I think these questions merit our attention and need clarification by finding the real facts. I recently wrote a letter to Toyota in my country formulating these questions, but individual action has little chance of success. The best way would be to engage a discussion with Toyota Europe officials. Although very often, this is utopia, there is an interesting precedent in Spain. The Landcruiser Club there had received on its Forum several complaints about Diesel injectors, and the administrators of that site had succeeded in having a meeting with important Toyota Spain managers and officials. Toyota has issued a statement saying that all owners suffering from this problem would receive free repairs, even well after the end of the guarantee. This shows that perseverance and the proper approach may work.

I believe it would be just fair and in Toyota Europe’s interest if they would accept to consider the questions formulated above. The MMT technology may well have had initial problems which were since taken care of. Other cases have occurred in this branch of industry.

I am not writing to you as a Forum official, but as a simple TCV MMT owner. I know however, that the French CVT MMT owners would greet a kind of a Europe wide consumer request. Would you be interested to collaborate on a European level to bring this matter up to Toyota Europe, the only level which I feel is effective?

Mister MMT.
[/quote]


It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?
It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert

regards

[quote name='bjw' post='686603' date='Oct 29 2007, 08:06 PM']It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?
It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

[b]You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert [/b]

regards[/quote]

OK, this was not really the emphasis of my message, but since you raise this point once more, I am glad to express my opinion more clearly. I will need to repeat in part what others said before...

Your opinion is as good as anybody else's. My opinion is as follows:

You can drive such cars anyway you like, that's up to you, but you risk to not liking it at all. And that would be a pity.

A Fact is that MMT gearboxes have a few drawbacks which put off those that do not wish to adapt to them. It is also a Fact that with some adjustment, one can avoid almost all the drawbacks, and really benefit a lot from the choices they offer (at least in the CV and Auris cars).

I submit to you: if that is true, is it not worth the effort?

[b]Advantages: [/b]

When you use it in the M mode, you dispose of rapidly and smoothly shifting gears, without using your left foot. It provides you with full control, for example in mountaineous regions. I agree with others saying that it would have been preferable the - and + would be inversed, but one gets used to it.

When using it in the E mode, it is really easy to learn getting control over when a gear is shifted, with the proper movements of your right foot. This mode is liked by fuel economy minded people, since it really helps lowering fuel consumption. I would think this is a major argument and a big motivator for adapting your style.

The Es mode allows you to rev and take pleasure. I sometimes use it when I am in a hurry.

[b]Disadvantages:[/b]

An MMT box calls for an adapted driving style. This is not acceptable to a number of people, and some of these are right saying Toyota should be communicating better on these points.

MMT boxes are technically more complex and may be more failure prone than conventional manual ones. It cannot be excluded that not adopting an appropriate driving style increses the chances for failures. No facts, however, sustain such a statement.

The MMT technology is recent and it's possible that MMT boxes from the first series have a design which needed improvement. If this point turned out to be correct, owners of cars of that period would be entitled benefiting from a courteous repair policy. [b]I took action in order to try and find out by writing to Toyota[/b].

There is also the investigation by VOSA.

I agree it is better to await their conclusions before going much further with our discussions.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that using the MMT gearbox like a full automatic is erronic. Driving an MMT equipped car best involves driving in an adapted way, and this can be learned by anybody.

I you planned visiting Strasbourg, give me a sign and I'll be glad being your coach.

Mister MMT

My Corolla Verso is just under 4 years old - it's on an 04 plate.

At 15,000 miles I sufferd the mmt problems but as my driving was mainly restricted to quiet roads it wasn't such a major problem.

The worse situation I had was having the car 'cut-out' whilst in the middle of a 3-point turn. The car went into the garage and a modification fitted.

The car now has 23.000 miles on the clock. Last Friday I was driving on the M25, at speed, when the gear box jumped back into neutral. As I was travelling at speed I had enough momentum in the car to be able to move across to the hard shoulder.

I 'rebooted' the car and cautiously pulled back out again. Everything was fine for a few moments then suddenly it did it again. Fortunately I was in the slow lane, unfortunately the car did not have enough momentum this time to move into the hard shoulder. So with my 8 year old son sitting in the car I had to get out and push the car out of the path of a lorry!!!!!

The police and Highways Agency were there in minutes and very helpful. The car however needed to be recoved and taken back to the Dealership for repair.

I have contacted Vosa (Vehicle Safety Unit - 0117 954 3247) who said they have had a meeting with Toyota and Toyota will be sending out a letter to all owners explaining how the car should be driven. This situation is not regarded as a safety issue and therefore Toyota will not be recalling the vehicles to have the modification fitted. The original modification, which has now failed, has been replaced with a new modification. I have today collected the car back from the garage and despite it having been practically rebuilt I do not have a lot of confidence in it. I purchased this 7-seater as I look after small children and need to be able to transport them safely. Is it now safe??

The parts, Boot clutch fork, clutch fork, clutch rel.brg, ball clutch fork, clutch, accumulator, computer etc etc at a nice price of £2428. I did manage however to get the bill reduced to £1300 but that's still a lot of money for something that, in my opinion, is a known technical fault with the Corolla Verso.



[quote name='Mister MMT' post='686951' date='Oct 30 2007, 08:56 PM'][quote name='bjw' post='686603' date='Oct 29 2007, 08:06 PM']It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?
It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

[b]You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert [/b]

regards[/quote]

OK, this was not really the emphasis of my message, but since you raise this point once more, I am glad to express my opinion more clearly. I will need to repeat in part what others said before...

Your opinion is as good as anybody else's. My opinion is as follows:

You can drive such cars anyway you like, that's up to you, but you risk to not liking it at all. And that would be a pity.

A Fact is that MMT gearboxes have a few drawbacks which put off those that do not wish to adapt to them. It is also a Fact that with some adjustment, one can avoid almost all the drawbacks, and really benefit a lot from the choices they offer (at least in the CV and Auris cars).

I submit to you: if that is true, is it not worth the effort?

[b]Advantages: [/b]

When you use it in the M mode, you dispose of rapidly and smoothly shifting gears, without using your left foot. It provides you with full control, for example in mountaineous regions. I agree with others saying that it would have been preferable the - and + would be inversed, but one gets used to it.

When using it in the E mode, it is really easy to learn getting control over when a gear is shifted, with the proper movements of your right foot. This mode is liked by fuel economy minded people, since it really helps lowering fuel consumption. I would think this is a major argument and a big motivator for adapting your style.

The Es mode allows you to rev and take pleasure. I sometimes use it when I am in a hurry.

[b]Disadvantages:[/b]

An MMT box calls for an adapted driving style. This is not acceptable to a number of people, and some of these are right saying Toyota should be communicating better on these points.

MMT boxes are technically more complex and may be more failure prone than conventional manual ones. It cannot be excluded that not adopting an appropriate driving style increses the chances for failures. No facts, however, sustain such a statement.

The MMT technology is recent and it's possible that MMT boxes from the first series have a design which needed improvement. If this point turned out to be correct, owners of cars of that period would be entitled benefiting from a courteous repair policy. [b]I took action in order to try and find out by writing to Toyota[/b].

There is also the investigation by VOSA.

I agree it is better to await their conclusions before going much further with our discussions.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that using the MMT gearbox like a full automatic is erronic. Driving an MMT equipped car best involves driving in an adapted way, and this can be learned by anybody.

I you planned visiting Strasbourg, give me a sign and I'll be glad being your coach.

Mister MMT
[/quote]

That is absolutely appalling the thought of a member of your family could be stranded on a motorway sends shivers up my back

I suggest you contact Toyota customer services and challenge the £1300 bill ! a car which is just under 4 years old and has travelled 23,000 miles with a known history of problem auto boxes should receive a free repair
Avensis owners have had oil burning issues and Toyota have done free engine rebuilds well after the 3 year warranty had expired also the Avensis have had problems with the light bulbs melting in there holders I believe these were replaced after the warranty had expired free of charge.

Your comments that the VOSA if true ( which I am sure they are ) are not regarding this as safety issue does not surprise me as I have commented before I do not have any confidence that they will handle this problem any better than the Vauxhall handbrake issue or the Renault bonnet release problem.

When you lose confidence in a vehicle perhaps its best to trade it in but not everybody will be in a financial position to do so

Now Christmas is coming perhaps the must have accessory for all Verso MMT owners is a high visibility jacket

Quite right bjw! I couldn't believe that tina-mmt should have to pay for the job as the first repair took place when the car was still in warranty and it is the same problem.

VOSA disappoints me! Driving style does n't matter if the gearbox don't allow us to drive-it's unrelaible. There are problems with it otherwise how come there are so many break downs. So when can't they just come out clean and change the necessary part instead of waiting people to break down first and then let owners losing the trust of the brand and then leaving Toyota altogether. If they like this process then good luck with them.

On a further note, I went to the Tokyo Motorshow last week. On the Toyota stand, none of the car had mmt gearbox-I wonder why! With my Japanese friend, we spoke to a Technical Advisor the show. He told me cars such as Voxy-a 7seater, have conventional auto box, one you can still change gear if you wished, but has park features and does still creep forward. He didn't know much about the mmt but has heard of it. He also said as in Japan, 80% people drives autos so they got to be relaible. So obviously, Toyota Japan knows the mmt is not reliable and so there is no way they are going to have this unrelaible product in their home competive country!

R

They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems??

[quote name='versowner' post='689939' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:11 PM']They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems?? [/quote]


Hello,

I tried to find the VOSA conclusions on their site, but dwithout success. Does anyone have the text ? Would be good to read it before starting commenting...

Mister MMT

[quote name='Mister MMT' post='693803' date='Nov 17 2007, 05:03 PM'][quote name='versowner' post='689939' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:11 PM']They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems?? [/quote]


Hello,

I tried to find the VOSA conclusions on their site, but dwithout success. Does anyone have the text ? Would be good to read it before starting commenting...

Mister MMT
[/quote]

I do not think that VOSA have published the results of their investigation yet.

Speculation on this matter does not really serve any meaningful purpose.................I agree with Mr MMT..............it will be good to read the VOSA conclusions before commenting

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='693837' date='Nov 17 2007, 05:47 PM'][quote name='Mister MMT' post='693803' date='Nov 17 2007, 05:03 PM'][quote name='versowner' post='689939' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:11 PM']They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems?? [/quote]


Hello,

I tried to find the VOSA conclusions on their site, but dwithout success. Does anyone have the text ? Would be good to read it before starting commenting...

Mister MMT
[/quote]

I do not think that VOSA have published the results of their investigation yet.

Speculation on this matter does not really serve any meaningful purpose.................I agree with Mr MMT..............it will be good to read the VOSA conclusions before commenting
[/quote]

Hello Red Yaris 54

I thought you said you do not want to waste of your time to post on this subject while the VOSA were investigating I am sure we all respect your decsion not to.
Perhaps if you were one of the persons affected by this problem you might not take the same attitude

[quote name='bjw' post='693995' date='Nov 18 2007, 12:27 AM'][quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='693837' date='Nov 17 2007, 05:47 PM'][quote name='Mister MMT' post='693803' date='Nov 17 2007, 05:03 PM'][quote name='versowner' post='689939' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:11 PM']They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems?? [/quote]


Hello,

I tried to find the VOSA conclusions on their site, but dwithout success. Does anyone have the text ? Would be good to read it before starting commenting...

Mister MMT
[/quote]

I do not think that VOSA have published the results of their investigation yet.

Speculation on this matter does not really serve any meaningful purpose.................I agree with Mr MMT..............it will be good to read the VOSA conclusions before commenting
[/quote]

Hello Red Yaris 54

I thought you said you do not want to waste of your time to post on this subject while the VOSA were investigating I am sure we all respect your decsion not to.
Perhaps if you were one of the persons effected by this problem you might not take the same attitude
[/quote]

Which is exactly why I posted this:

Speculation on this matter does not really serve any meaningful purpose.................I agree with Mr MMT..............it will be good to read the VOSA conclusions before commenting.

Like the people affected by the problem, I too look forward to VOSA's conclusions, but do not wish to get involved in any further discussion on the forum until we have the FACTS from VOSA

I am sure the people who were affected by the Renault bonnet flying up as they drove along and the Vauxhall drivers who handbrake slipped off while parked were also looking forward to what findings the VOSA produced .
It did not help them very much that's why watchdog tried to help and publicised the problem !!! why do you think they will be anymore helpful to the MMT owners .

There is nothing more stressful than having a car which you do not trust ! we are both lucky our cars are reliable in the true Toyota tradition but please do not make light of other peoples problems they have a right to air there opinions and its not up to you or me to say they are right or wrong to do so

[quote name='bjw' post='694012' date='Nov 18 2007, 12:53 AM']I am sure the people who were affected by the Renault bonnet flying up as they drove along and the Vauxhall drivers who handbrake slipped off while parked were also looking forward what findings the VOSA produced .
It did not help them very much that's why watchdog tried to help and publicised the problem !!! why do you think they will be anymore helpful to the MMT owners .

There is nothing more stressful than having a car which you do not trust ! we are both lucky our cars are reliable in the true Toyota tradition but please do not make light of other peoples problems they have a right to air there opinions and its not up to you or me to say they are right or wrong to do so[/quote]

I do not make light of other peoples problems and look forward to reading the results from VOSA. I have always stated that we should have FACTS before making any judgements on the subject

I wonder why you have taken the moral high ground over this I think that you need to chill

[quote name='Red Yaris 54' post='694022' date='Nov 18 2007, 01:28 AM'][quote name='bjw' post='694012' date='Nov 18 2007, 12:53 AM']I am sure the people who were affected by the Renault bonnet flying up as they drove along and the Vauxhall drivers who handbrake slipped off while parked were also looking forward what findings the VOSA produced .
It did not help them very much that's why watchdog tried to help and publicised the problem !!! why do you think they will be anymore helpful to the MMT owners .

There is nothing more stressful than having a car which you do not trust ! we are both lucky our cars are reliable in the true Toyota tradition but please do not make light of other peoples problems they have a right to air there opinions and its not up to you or me to say they are right or wrong to do so[/quote]

I do not make light of other peoples problems and look forward to reading the results from VOSA. I have always stated that we should have FACTS before making any judgements on the subject

I wonder why you have taken the moral high ground over this I think that you need to chill
[/quote]


I have not taken the high moral ground but in the true British tradition I believe in fairness and your right to express an opinion and it just irks me when somebody tries to stifle peoples comments
I am now going to lay down in a darkened room and chill

[quote name='tina-mmt' post='687791' date='Nov 2 2007, 02:44 PM']My Corolla Verso is just under 4 years old - it's on an 04 plate.

At 15,000 miles I sufferd the mmt problems but as my driving was mainly restricted to quiet roads it wasn't such a major problem.

The worse situation I had was having the car 'cut-out' whilst in the middle of a 3-point turn. The car went into the garage and a modification fitted.

The car now has 23.000 miles on the clock. Last Friday I was driving on the M25, at speed, when the gear box jumped back into neutral. As I was travelling at speed I had enough momentum in the car to be able to move across to the hard shoulder.

I 'rebooted' the car and cautiously pulled back out again. Everything was fine for a few moments then suddenly it did it again. Fortunately I was in the slow lane, unfortunately the car did not have enough momentum this time to move into the hard shoulder. So with my 8 year old son sitting in the car I had to get out and push the car out of the path of a lorry!!!!!

The police and Highways Agency were there in minutes and very helpful. The car however needed to be recoved and taken back to the Dealership for repair.

I have contacted Vosa (Vehicle Safety Unit - 0117 954 3247) who said they have had a meeting with Toyota and Toyota will be sending out a letter to all owners explaining how the car should be driven. This situation is not regarded as a safety issue and therefore Toyota will not be recalling the vehicles to have the modification fitted. The original modification, which has now failed, has been replaced with a new modification. I have today collected the car back from the garage and despite it having been practically rebuilt I do not have a lot of confidence in it. I purchased this 7-seater as I look after small children and need to be able to transport them safely. Is it now safe??

The parts, Boot clutch fork, clutch fork, clutch rel.brg, ball clutch fork, clutch, accumulator, computer etc etc at a nice price of £2428. I did manage however to get the bill reduced to £1300 but that's still a lot of money for something that, in my opinion, is a known technical fault with the Corolla Verso.

[/quote]

Hello,

When I said it may be better to wait for the VOSA conclusions, I just meant the question relating to [b]whether the MMT transmission built in 2004-2005 has a construction flaw which represents a security problem, and whether Toyota should organise a recall of all the cars of that series for fixing that flaw[/b]. The post of tina-MMT provided a first hint, but I hope everybody agrees that it is worthwhile to await their written conclusions and arguments, before continuing to discuss this point.

I did [b]NOT[/b] mean we should disregard reports of individual cases and stop expressing our opinion or restrain from giving advise to the owner(s).

I personally feel very sad about what happened to tina-MMT, and understand she lost faith in her car. This happened to several owners before. I think I would also be very upset, especially if it would be a second hit on a car that does not have a high mileage, and is used cautiously. From her description of the MMT failure during highway cruising, I believe one can qualify this accident as potentially dangerous. What would have happened in the absence of a hard shoulder to escape, or if tina-MMT would have panicked? Admittedly, I'm not an expert...

[b]Tina-MMT's case is very interesting for 3 reasons[/b]:

1. It is one of the first times an owner is hit after the end of the garantee period.
2. It is the second time her car was hit, and we learn a new fact (although it would be better to have this confirmed by a Toyota official): there is a new fix, since the previous one apparently did not give full satisfaction.
3. The price of a complete fix, as described is high, and tina-MMT succeeded to trim that down. She nevertheless feels that it is unfair she would have to pay for a repair of a known technical fault.

1. A fact is that there has been numerous Corolla Versos needing a repair of their MMT transmission. I have this confirmed by my own Toyota chief technician, who said this was [b]above normal[/b]. Other members of the french Corolla Verso II forum have had similar information. [b]For me, that is now a fact.[/b] The only point lacking is confirmation by Toyota. I received a reply from Toyota Germany to my letter, and [b]they deny, there has been an identified problem[/b]. I'll continue to insist, since to me and others, this does not seem to be the case.

2. Toyota has continued to look for a better solution, and may well have found it. "Zero problems" does not exist, however. I believe tina-MMT can continue thrusting her car. In our french forum, owners who encountered the same problem continue enjoying their car and the MMT transmission. It is true, however, that we have no report on recurrent problems, in spite of the fact that several owners total more then 60000 miles.

3. My advise to tina-MMT is to seek assistance of a lawyer. [b]It could well be you have certain rights which such a professional could more easily identify and defend.[/b] Did you subscribe an insurance providing you with free assistance? In general, companies are more cooperative when dealing with professionals. Do not expect too much from activities like posting on a forum. I believe the very limited response we see here speaks for itself. I hope mine is somewhat helpful.

I believe [b]it is recommendable to subscribe to a Toyota supported garantee extension[/b]. Toyota is already doing a decent job providing a three years factory garantee, but experience shows this is often not enough. The price of repairs like replacing diesel injectors, brakes and transmissions is very high. Toyota providing an above average quality, such failures often occur after the garantee ended. I also believe one should carefully consider whether to keep a car beyond the garantee period, or resell it.

Mister MMT

Dear Mister MMT:

Thanks for your detailed reply. Just to add we need to be sure the Dealer did a proper job the first time round. When my mmt broke down in Jan 2006, my Dealer claimed they "fixed it". After 11 months later, it broke down again. This time the car went into another dealership and they showed me the first dealer didn't changed all the required parts! Now, it has completed 10,000 miles and touch wood, it is OK.

So I wonder whether if tina-mmt's situation was same as mine, i.e., that it was due to bad craftsmanship. If she can proved that, then she may have a case for Toyota to pay back the cost.

As regards to extended warranty, thats exactly what I got-for free!

R

[quote name='R Tang' post='695792' date='Nov 22 2007, 11:37 AM']Dear Mister MMT:

Thanks for your detailed reply. Just to add we need to be sure the Dealer did a proper job the first time round. When my mmt broke down in Jan 2006, my Dealer claimed they "fixed it". After 11 months later, it broke down again. This time the car went into another dealership and they showed me the first dealer didn't changed all the required parts! Now, it has completed 10,000 miles and touch wood, it is OK.

So I wonder whether if tina-mmt's situation was same as mine, i.e., that it was due to bad craftsmanship. If she can proved that, then she may have a case for Toyota to pay back the cost.

As regards to extended warranty, thats exactly what I got-for free!

R[/quote]

Hello R Tang,

You are quite right, but unfortunately, after the work having being done in the same workshop, it will be difficult to produce such proof. Glad to hear you have, like me, extended warranty, for free. Is'nt that great ?

Regards,

Mister MMT

Dear mister mmt

tine-mmt could prove this by asking to see the warranty claim invoice on the first visit. If this shows the dealer did not change all the parts as directed by the Toyota GB's memo on the mmt then she has a case. This happened to me as the dealer didn't change the necessary parts, e.g., clutch actuator and worse still-claimed they did work in which they haven't, e.g., grease all three fixs! The lesson is -ASK TO SEE AND KEEP COPY OF THE WARRANTY INVOICE. THATS WHAT I DID.

You are right, get legal help-in UK you can call Consumer Direct for free.

I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...

R

[quote name='R Tang' post='696173' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:27 AM']Dear mister mmt

tine-mmt could prove this by asking to see the warranty claim invoice on the first visit. If this shows the dealer did not change all the parts as directed by the Toyota GB's memo on the mmt then she has a case. This happened to me as the dealer didn't change the necessary parts, e.g., clutch actuator and worse still-claimed they did work in which they haven't, e.g., grease all three fixs! The lesson is -ASK TO SEE AND KEEP COPY OF THE WARRANTY INVOICE. THATS WHAT I DID.

You are right, get legal help-in UK you can call Consumer Direct for free.

I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...

R[/quote]


Hello R Tang,

that's an excellent peace of advise. I hope tina-MMT still follows up this discussion ! I agree it will be best she, or anybody else experiencing an analogous situtation, contacts Consumer Direct.

Is it difficult to obtain Toyota GB's memo on the MMT ? What exactly is the warranty claim invoice ? Does one always obtain this for a repair done under warranty, or does one have to claim it ? Could Consumer Direct help customers with this matter ?

These precisions may turn out to be very useful for people seeking good advise.

Many thanks in advance.

Mister MMT.

[quote name='R Tang' post='696173' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:27 AM']Dear mister mmt

[b]I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...[/b]

R[/quote]


Dear R

Well, I believe the Corolla Verso is in fact one of the most reliable cars, and certainly the most reliable mini-van. There is statistical proof from several sources for that. Individual experience cannot reflect reliability, since Zero fault does not exist.

The 2004-2005 builts of the MMT gearbox may well be a bit more failure prone. That does not mean they are unreliable, since apparantly, the vast majority had no problem. Only a poll (of the style of the JD Power report) including questions specific for the MMT box could shed light on this. And of course the information Toyota possesses but will never release. At least, I do not know of any. How about you or other Members ? [b]It is not the 26 cases described on TOC, the world's largest Toyota Forum, which convince me this gearbox is seriously flawed. In addition, we haven't seen many new cases lately.[/b]

The other point on whether this box needs adaptation of driving style and whether one likes it or not is another debate. I believe this gearbox offers good value for its money, but others may think differently.

Regards,

Mister MMT

[quote name='Mister MMT' post='696331' date='Nov 23 2007, 06:18 PM'][quote name='R Tang' post='696173' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:27 AM']Dear mister mmt

tine-mmt could prove this by asking to see the warranty claim invoice on the first visit. If this shows the dealer did not change all the parts as directed by the Toyota GB's memo on the mmt then she has a case. This happened to me as the dealer didn't change the necessary parts, e.g., clutch actuator and worse still-claimed they did work in which they haven't, e.g., grease all three fixs! The lesson is -ASK TO SEE AND KEEP COPY OF THE WARRANTY INVOICE. THATS WHAT I DID.

You are right, get legal help-in UK you can call Consumer Direct for free.

I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...

R[/quote]


Hello R Tang,

that's an excellent peace of advise. I hope tina-MMT still follows up this discussion ! I agree it will be best she, or anybody else experiencing an analogous situtation, contacts Consumer Direct.

Is it difficult to obtain Toyota GB's memo on the MMT ? What exactly is the warranty claim invoice ? Does one always obtain this for a repair done under warranty, or does one have to claim it ? Could Consumer Direct help customers with this matter ?

These precisions may turn out to be very useful for people seeking good advise.

Many thanks in advance.

Mister MMT.
[/quote]

Hi out there,

Yes I am following all the posting on this particular issue. Thank you for all your support I find it all very encouraging.

The situation at present is that the car is on the drive and I've hardly driven it since I got it back. I'm too scared to take the children out in it (1x4yr old, 2x5yr olds 1x6 yr old and 2x8yr olds - I'm a childminder!!) I just couldn't imagine getting stuck with the children in it. I am therefore only using it for short runs, only in daylight and never without a mobile phone, warm coat and a back-up plan.

I am sure I will build up confidence again and have friends who are willing to follow in their own cars should I decide to test it on a motorway.

To deal with the warranty issue - I didn't even realise until 2 weeks ago that you could but extended warranties - had I known I'm sure I'd have purchased it.

I have written to Toyota GB explaining the situation and have asked for them to refund the repair cost and grant my car a 2 year extended warranty. I am still waiting for a response but it has only been a week. If I have no joy I will write to the next 'higher ranking' person on the list. If I get no joy from Toyota direct I will almost certainly consider legal action.

I have to say that the only reason I still have the car is because I believe that if this does go through the legal system I would have a better chance of getting a refund if I still owned the vehicle. Hopefully it won't come to that and hopefully I'll get my confidence back again.

Thanks again for all your support.
Tina

[quote name='tina-mmt' post='696437' date='Nov 23 2007, 10:10 PM'][quote name='Mister MMT' post='696331' date='Nov 23 2007, 06:18 PM'][quote name='R Tang' post='696173' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:27 AM']Dear mister mmt

tine-mmt could prove this by asking to see the warranty claim invoice on the first visit. If this shows the dealer did not change all the parts as directed by the Toyota GB's memo on the mmt then she has a case. This happened to me as the dealer didn't change the necessary parts, e.g., clutch actuator and worse still-claimed they did work in which they haven't, e.g., grease all three fixs! The lesson is -ASK TO SEE AND KEEP COPY OF THE WARRANTY INVOICE. THATS WHAT I DID.

You are right, get legal help-in UK you can call Consumer Direct for free.

I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...

R[/quote]


Hello R Tang,

that's an excellent peace of advise. I hope tina-MMT still follows up this discussion ! I agree it will be best she, or anybody else experiencing an analogous situtation, contacts Consumer Direct.

Is it difficult to obtain Toyota GB's memo on the MMT ? What exactly is the warranty claim invoice ? Does one always obtain this for a repair done under warranty, or does one have to claim it ? Could Consumer Direct help customers with this matter ?

These precisions may turn out to be very useful for people seeking good advise.

Many thanks in advance.

Mister MMT.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote name='tina-mmt' post='696440' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:24 PM']Hi out there,

Yes I am following all the posting on this particular issue. Thank you for all your support I find it all very encouraging.

The situation at present is that the car is on the drive and I've hardly driven it since I got it back. I'm too scared to take the children out in it (1x4yr old, 2x5yr olds 1x6 yr old and 2x8yr olds - I'm a childminder!!) I just couldn't imagine getting stuck with the children in it. I am therefore only using it for short runs, only in daylight and never without a mobile phone, warm coat and a back-up plan.

I am sure I will build up confidence again and have friends who are willing to follow in their own cars should I decide to test it on a motorway.

To deal with the warranty issue - I didn't even realise until 2 weeks ago that you could but extended warranties - had I known I'm sure I'd have purchased it.

I have written to Toyota GB explaining the situation and have asked for them to refund the repair cost and grant my car a 2 year extended warranty. I am still waiting for a response but it has only been a week. If I have no joy I will write to the next 'higher ranking' person on the list. If I get no joy from Toyota direct I will almost certainly consider legal action.

I have to say that the only reason I still have the car is because I believe that if this does go through the legal system I would have a better chance of getting a refund if I still owned the vehicle. Hopefully it won't come to that and hopefully I'll get my confidence back again.

Thanks again for all your support.
Tina[/quote]


Hi tina-mmt,

thanks for letting us know. I look forward to read how you fare with Toyota, or other action. It may take some time...

Mister MMT

[quote name='tina-mmt' post='696440' date='Nov 23 2007, 10:24 PM']Hi out there,

Yes I am following all the posting on this particular issue. Thank you for all your support I find it all very encouraging.

The situation at present is that the car is on the drive and I've hardly driven it since I got it back. I'm too scared to take the children out in it (1x4yr old, 2x5yr olds 1x6 yr old and 2x8yr olds - I'm a childminder!!) I just couldn't imagine getting stuck with the children in it. I am therefore only using it for short runs, only in daylight and never without a mobile phone, warm coat and a back-up plan.

I am sure I will build up confidence again and have friends who are willing to follow in their own cars should I decide to test it on a motorway.

To deal with the warranty issue - I didn't even realise until 2 weeks ago that you could but extended warranties - had I known I'm sure I'd have purchased it.

[b]I have written to Toyota GB explaining the situation and have asked for them to refund the repair cost and grant my car a 2 year extended warranty. I am still waiting for a response but it has only been a week. If I have no joy I will write to the next 'higher ranking' person on the list. If I get no joy from Toyota direct I will almost certainly consider legal action.[/b]
I have to say that the only reason I still have the car is because I believe that if this does go through the legal system I would have a better chance of getting a refund if I still owned the vehicle. Hopefully it won't come to that and hopefully I'll get my confidence back again.

Thanks again for all your support.
Tina

[quote name='tina-mmt' post='696437' date='Nov 23 2007, 10:10 PM'][quote name='Mister MMT' post='696331' date='Nov 23 2007, 06:18 PM'][quote name='R Tang' post='696173' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:27 AM']Dear mister mmt

tine-mmt could prove this by asking to see the warranty claim invoice on the first visit. If this shows the dealer did not change all the parts as directed by the Toyota GB's memo on the mmt then she has a case. This happened to me as the dealer didn't change the necessary parts, e.g., clutch actuator and worse still-claimed they did work in which they haven't, e.g., grease all three fixs! The lesson is -ASK TO SEE AND KEEP COPY OF THE WARRANTY INVOICE. THATS WHAT I DID.

You are right, get legal help-in UK you can call Consumer Direct for free.

I am glad you have a free warranty-but I think we all agreed we would rather like a reliable car and to be getting involved in tjis discussion. We would rather talk about how good our cars are...

R[/quote]


Hello R Tang,

that's an excellent peace of advise. I hope tina-MMT still follows up this discussion ! I agree it will be best she, or anybody else experiencing an analogous situtation, contacts Consumer Direct.

Is it difficult to obtain Toyota GB's memo on the MMT ? What exactly is the warranty claim invoice ? Does one always obtain this for a repair done under warranty, or does one have to claim it ? Could Consumer Direct help customers with this matter ?

These precisions may turn out to be very useful for people seeking good advise.

Many thanks in advance.

Mister MMT.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]


Hello


I have posted some names that may be of use to you and perhaps not on your list I think it is reasonably up to date as at the end of 2006

Jo Woodlove , Customer services manager , at Toyota GB Epsom you may be able to speak to her by asking to be put through to her extension.

Miguel Fonseca, Managing director , at UK operations based in Epsom he replaced Graham Smith as managing director in 2006

Don Baker , customer relations manager, at Toyota Motor Europe the address I think is Avenue du Bourget60-Bourgetlaan60,
B-1140,Brussels-Belgium

Kazunori Harada , General Manager, Overseas Operations Department, Customer services division, based in Japan the address is
Head Office, 1 Toyota-Cho, Toyota ,AICHI,471-8571, Japan


Hope this may help

Thanks for the update bjw. Just to add I also wrote to Michael Cole, see previous postings.

Mister mmt: The warranty claim invoice is for dealer when they are claiming their money from Toyota when they have carried out work under warranty. This usually is not for the customer but as in my case, I had the right to get the copy as I believe they did n't do their work properly. But you can always ask to see what has been changed etc.

The memo from Toyota was issued by them because dealers were experiened a lot of problems for the MMt so they issue this memo to help dealers-and tell them what to do when faced with this problem. Again this is confidential papers for internal matters only. I knew this because I asked Toyota GB whether they were getting involved with the dealers in soloving this crisis and they said they have issued this so dealers know what to do. But in my case, my first dealer didn't follow the procedure-worse still they claimed work in which they haven't done and as a result, my car broke down again!

In answering your question on car surveys, e.g., JP Power, yes Verso came top for MPVs and overall I bet they are very reliable like other Toyotas. But I don't think many MMt owners took part. Not many people like cars and for sure, the mums at my son's school who drives the Verso MMt didn't even know there are forums or Jp power or are interested in cars etc etc. More realistic is the Which? car survey by the Consumer Association. My friend works for them and he said some 35 % of the Verso respondent were MMt owners. The result was that Verso only gained 3 stars out of 5. Look also on owners review at the Whatcar? website. Again, mmt verso owners have problems. To sum up, car surveys are good as a general guide but I think by typing in "problems of the Verso mmt" in goolge gives us a better picture of a particular car. What about in Europe? Is the car survey showing the same result? Unfortunately, in Europe people like manual more then auto so I bet the result comes out the same. We have to dig deeper for a ture picture.

Cheers.

Has anyone had satisfaction in resolving the N problem with the Verso transmission?
Has anyone had a satisfactory reply from Toyota?
Have VOSA published anything on the problem?
My 54 reg Verso has caused problems resulting in a bill for £589 which should have been paid for by Toyota.

welcome to the forum! In my case toyota gb gave me an extra years warranty and since the repair was conducted accordance to Tgb's memo, it has been ok. It has done 36000 miles and 10000 miles since it was last repaired. As for vosa, no news yet but do write to them. Has your car been repaired before on the gear box. If so, consumer direct may help. See pervious postings. Good luck.

Hi, I had to sign up to this forum. We have this same problem on our Verso.

MMT gearbox is slipping out of gear while driving. its dangrous and a bad manufacturing fault. The car is 3 1/2 years old. It was modified \ Fixed at a year old. now after another 17,000 miles we have the issue.

This is what we need for the repair and the cost of the parts:

Computer assembely - £481.
Clutch Actuator - £504.70
Clutch Fork - £20.25
Clutch Fork Ball - £6.31
Default part (Bolt?) £5.29
Clutch Plate - £178.29

£1405.39 that Toyota WILL NOT PAY.

I have spoken at length with Jenny Shipley and her manager Jo Waddlive (customer service manager Tel 01737 363 633) at Toyota head office. They will not do a thing. The admit the fault but will not repair - Not even at a reduced cost.

I have been in touch with watchdog


PLEASE DO LODGE A COMPLAINT WITH WATCHDOG.

DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE CARS not matter how cheap.

for a company that pride themselves on replutation I can not belive the way they are behaving over this.

AE

Watchdog Details:

Tel: 020 8535 1000
Web: [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/contact_index.shtml"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio...act_index.shtml[/url]
email: watchdog@bbc.co.uk.

Sadly This is the only way Toyota will take ownership of the issue.

[quote name='essinghigh' post='707534' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:40 AM']Hi, I had to sign up to this forum. We have this same problem on our Verso.

MMT gearbox is slipping out of gear while driving. its dangrous and a bad manufacturing fault. The car is 3 1/2 years old. It was modified \ Fixed at a year old. now after another 17,000 miles we have the issue.

This is what we need for the repair and the cost of the parts:

Computer assembely - £481.
Clutch Actuator - £504.70
Clutch Fork - £20.25
Clutch Fork Ball - £6.31
Default part (Bolt?) £5.29
Clutch Plate - £178.29

£1405.39 that Toyota WILL NOT PAY.

I have spoken at length with Jenny Shipley and her manager Jo Waddlive (customer service manager Tel 01737 363 633) at Toyota head office. They will not do a thing. The admit the fault but will not repair - Not even at a reduced cost.

I have been in touch with watchdog


PLEASE DO LODGE A COMPLAINT WITH WATCHDOG.

DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE CARS not matter how cheap.

for a company that pride themselves on replutation I can not belive the way they are behaving over this.

AE[/quote]


This was taken from the Toyota website

Where ‘Customer first’ began
In any competitive business, customer satisfaction is a top priority. For us, that’s just the point of departure.

Our goal is to turn customer satisfaction into Complete Customer Satisfaction. This means delivering beyond expectations. It means listening to customers and constantly seeking to do things better. And it means going the extra mile to ensure that owners feel positive about their Toyota vehicle at every stage of the customer experience.

The concept of “Customer first” originated in the Toyota Production System. Irrespective of how flawless and pleasing the final product may be, we would consider it meaningless if it didn’t meet customers’ demands and satisfy their needs.

[quote name='essinghigh' post='707534' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:40 AM']Hi, I had to sign up to this forum. We have this same problem on our Verso.

MMT gearbox is slipping out of gear while driving. its dangrous and a bad manufacturing fault. The car is 3 1/2 years old. It was modified \ Fixed at a year old. now after another 17,000 miles we have the issue.

£1405.39 that Toyota WILL NOT PAY.

for a company that pride themselves on replutation I can not belive the way they are behaving over this.

AE[/quote]

Hi essinhigh,

what happens to you is going to happen to more MMT owners of the first generations of MMT equipped Corolla Verso models, who did not purchase a prolongued warranty. It is a poor job of Toyota GB to not accept reducing the cost of repair, but I believe they will have to reconsider their policy, in the wake of the uproar this will create. I wish you good luck, and do not give up !

Just out of curiosity, how many miles did you drive, and under which conditions? What was the nature of the first failure? Were you pleased with the MMT gearbox?

Personally, I have been expressing a less severe judgement on the MMT gearbox. It seems now very likely that 2004 and 2005 models encounter an above average failure rate, but it is impossible to know the exact extent of the problem. Toyota has been modifying parts, and the gearbox is apparently more robust now. I do not see any reason why one would not buy this model. The MMT transmission is unexpensive, practical, and reduces fuel consumption. It also incites to a coll and easy going drive, which is good for general life time of other parts of the car. I wish to draw the attention of the interested owners here on our french Corolla Verso II forum, and the thread on the MMT transmission and its problems. You'll have to register to access it, and of course understand Voltaire's language. Good exercise! And no, I am not working for Toyota. In fact, I am a University professor and molecular biologist...

[url="http://corollaversoii.forumactif.com/les-pannes-survenues-sur-le-corolla-verso-f14/embrayage-mmt-t2323.htm?sid=05f4fb143ec8b22396bf1a5fab27f99c"]http://corollaversoii.forumactif.com/les-p...6bf1a5fab27f99c[/url]

We are only about 5 to 6 MMT drivers posting regularly, but 8 % of the > 2000 members (or > 150 !) possess this model. All off the active members say they love the gearbox! We have seen zero people saying they are not liking it, once they got used to it. Only 5 members have been reporting problems over a two years period, 4 of them the "N" problem. I consider that this is very low number, because people mainly come to Forums when they encounter a problem! It is of course a hard strike if one is hit by the "N" problem, especially on a Toyota. Nevertheless, it could well be that Toyota is doing better then other car makers offering comparable technology, like Vauxhall, Smart, Citroën, Alfa Romeo. The only point I feel concerned about are the security matters, and I am looking forward to read the VOSA report.

All the problem cars have been repaired under warranty and since then , they had no new problem. Initially, the mechanics had trouble with the right repair procedure, but now, they seem to be instructed much better. Alarmed by the reports on TUC I passed on to my fellows, most owners have purchased a warranty extension. I strongly recommend all owners of any Corolla Verso to do so. D-4D cars too, encounter problems with injectors and EGR systems which are expensive repairs.

I expect that soon, some french owners who did not follow up this matter, will make themselves known to us, in case they have the problem on a car without warranty. We will then see whether Toyota Fr does participate in the costs of repair.

Regards,

Mister MMT

Mister MMT,

Thank you for your response. There is no doubt in my mind that early MMT have a serious and dangerous fault. The car is a second vehicle and used mainly by my wife. We purchased at 13,000 miles straight after the first repair. The second clutch did 17,000 miles before repeat failure. Driving has been a mixture of motorway runs and supermarket trips, the majority being less than 20 miles in suburban traffic.

As for pleased with the MMT, that would have to be a NO! I don’t like things that go wrong repeatedly….. The drive is okay, personally I have been driving 5 series BMW’s for quite a number of years and love both the drive and smoothness of the BMW auto boxes! I get on well enough with the MMT and the build quality and reputation of Toyota was an attraction. This said I would have preferred a proper auto.

I don’t understand a lot of the comments about driving the car incorrectly. You really cant, if you don’t ease off the gas when it changes you get a seriously poor drive, it was quick and easy enough to get used to.

Regarding your comments about numbers on the forum, it was only the diabolical support offered from Toyota’s head office that instigated me signing up. I doubt I’m in a minority, I wanted to share my experience with others in the hope that the greater the numbers the more hope we have of a satisfactory resolution from Toyota.

My situation is quite simple, I understand electronic and mechanical items will have faults. Manufacturers try and minimise this but it will inevitably happen from time to time. When something of this nature happens I expect it to be resolved with the minimum pain to me. Toyota has not done anything to resolve, I have later found out that they have withheld information that would have helped my case.

Both the Toyota dealers I have been working with on this have been fantastic, Professional, courteous and very helpful. Toyota head office has been at fault and as a result I will never buy a Toyota again, neither will many of the friends and acquaintances that seen the way Toyota have handled this. Customer service particularly if poor travels fast and is very damaging to a companies reputation.

A point worth noting – The clutch is guaranteed for 3 years from fitting. So my clutch is still in warranty (the second one). Something Toyota Head Office negated to tell me during any of the numerous discussions.


May I urge people again to pursue this with Watchdog

Thanks

AE