2009 RAV4 on sale in August, what are your thoughts? See the Toyota website link below:

[url="http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?edname=RV6_ModelDiscovery&zone=Zone%20NG%20RAV4&navRoot=toyota_1024_root"]http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/...oyota_1024_root[/url]

Interesting points:

- 6 speed diesel auto (hurray!!)
- no run flat tyres
- 4x2 version available again

My thoughts :-

1. Good they've inroduced a diesel auto but why only on the "sport" version. Usually autos are offered on the "mainstream version " (if you know what I mean) and it is the "sport" that is manual.

2. Tyres - repair kit is poor. I will not change my RAV until a space saver or proper spare is offered.

I think the auto is only available on the D-CAT version because they have more control over the way it is driven to match the emission expectations. On holiday I drove a 2.5 petrol Nissan with CVT box and it was superb. It would have been nice on a diesel but presumably they are better suited to petrol engines as it is only offered on the vavematic.

I agree about the tyres - it wouldn't be my prefered option but having aid that mine is 3 years old and apart from a slow puncture which I think was there from new I've never needed it!

A spare wheel is something you will never ever need until you really do need it! I've done a lot of continental driving, long days at high speed, and on 2 out of 4 trips I've had tyres blow. The tyres were no longer on the rims after the 'event' so a repair kit just wouldn't have cut it. Neither would have run flats. IMO there is no replacement for having a whole new wheel and tyre when dealing with a tyre problem. If necessary I'd strap one to the roof if I had a car without a spare and was going abroad.

[quote name='halfpastsix' post='909918' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:17 AM']A spare wheel is something you will never ever need until you really do need it! I've done a lot of continental driving, long days at high speed, and on 2 out of 4 trips I've had tyres blow. The tyres were no longer on the rims after the 'event' so a repair kit just wouldn't have cut it. Neither would have run flats. IMO there is no replacement for having a whole new wheel and tyre when dealing with a tyre problem. If necessary I'd strap one to the roof if I had a car without a spare and was going abroad.[/quote]

Agree entirely ( well, perhaps not straping it to the roof - I'd towbar mount one first ). I've been there as well. I now have an after market Tyre Pressure Monitoring System which alarms if the pressure starts to drop. Don't suppose it would prevent a blow-out if you define a blow-out as a sudden catastrophic failure of the tyre structure, but it would, in most cases, stop a nail or something similar causing a write-off of the tyre by overstresing the tyre wall or allowing high heat build-up before you recognise that the tyre is loosing pressure because of handling changes. It monitors tyre temperature as well, so you would have a warning of heat excessive build-up. The cost of the kit was about that of 1.5 tyres so the jury's still out on if it will pay for itself but I am hoping that it will at least give me chance to stop somewhere reasonably safe to change the wheel. All the above is opinion of course, but I hope it's a fairly rational decision even if it dosen't turn out to be particularly cost effective.

Forget the cost. It could save your life.

I think the tyre repair kits are here to stay !!
More and more manufacturers are using these 1- to save weight in the car making it more fuel efficient 2- to cut manufacturing costs !!

I think some time in the future not sure when (2012 I think) but all cars will have to have tyre pressure monitoring lights on the dash

[quote name='blue verso 56' post='909930' date='Jul 2 2009, 07:58 AM']I think the tyre repair kits are here to stay !!
More and more manufacturers are using these 1- to save weight in the car making it more fuel efficient 2- to cut manufacturing costs !!

I think some time in the future not sure when (2012 I think) but all cars will have to have tyre pressure monitoring lights on the dash[/quote]
I think you are probably right - emissions driving things again.

There is a good argument for having a spare tho (this fence is awful to sit on ).

[quote name='anchorman' post='910029' date='Jul 2 2009, 04:57 PM'][quote name='blue verso 56' post='909930' date='Jul 2 2009, 07:58 AM']I think the tyre repair kits are here to stay !!
More and more manufacturers are using these 1- to save weight in the car making it more fuel efficient 2- to cut manufacturing costs !!

I think some time in the future not sure when (2012 I think) but all cars will have to have tyre pressure monitoring lights on the dash[/quote]
I think you are probably right - emissions driving things again.

There is a good argument for having a spare tho (this fence is awful to sit on ).
[/quote]

You keep sitting there fella ( with me ) - its a lot more comfortable that a motorway hard shoulder whilst you are waiting for AA/RAC/Tyre repairer etc

I thought run flat tyres were the future... *ducks for cover*

I think if you gave a manufacturer a choice between putting run flats on a car or putting a can of tyre inflator in the boot I know which one they would pick

The trouble with car production these days are that the accountants are more involved and therefore build quality suffers as they are built to a price now more than ever

Just my opinion

But they weren't run flats (i.e. strengthened) tyres on the RAV. It was the run flat system with normal tyres.

Re. D-CAt - can they not fit this to all verions, not just the sport?

[quote name='blue verso 56' post='910137' date='Jul 2 2009, 09:58 PM']I think if you gave a manufacturer a choice between putting run flats on a car or putting a can of tyre inflator in the boot I know which one they would pick

The trouble with car production these days are that the accountants are more involved and therefore build quality suffers as they are built to a price now more than ever

Just my opinion[/quote]
This is an interesting point and something I witnessed up to my leaving the motor industry in 2003 (trust me driving trains is money for old rope).

Ford used to invite (read that as instruct) us to an annual meeting to allow us to explain how we were going to reduce our price and increase our specification year on year. They told us that their customers expected more kit for less money (which they converted into what they called lower price increases but increase the price they did). It was rather one sided as all the suppliers were expected to take a hit while FMC were sitting pretty.

For that reason, development of new vehicles consisted of an evolution of things that might give them an edge on a competitor like mirrors with electric adjust, heaters, puddle lights and indicators built in for which a suppiler might be expected to supply for the same price as a bog standard unit currently supplied. Other things might be brackets that were previously metal would become ABS which would lose some weight but equally lose some cost. The goal was to drive the whole thing down as it evolved. Some did it too quick - an example might be a Nissan Primera P10 was a lot better than a later P11 and dropping the bonnet of the latter was like kicking an empty dust bin which spoiled a superb car - it evolved badly and cost them a place in the D Class segment - they have no Mondeo sized saloon for Europe.

Toyota were very difficult to deal with. They wanted very high spec for the lowest price and drove many suppliers to the point where it just wasn't worth it. In some ways they also offered some security and as an example suppliers might prefer to be selling at a low profit to Toyota than a higher one to GM. The motor industry is a bitch and I'm glad I'm out!!!

Yep and the price of cars keep going up....even though people now have less money, FORD as an example are upping there prices to recoup the loss their making and also to off set the scrappage scheme....

It seems all the things you want on a car are out of reach on the general models people tend to buy..... The Auto on the RAV is a move we have been waiting for.. but one you will paymore for...My next Car i'm unsure of yet what it will be... been looking down at getting a pickup type vehicle...Hilux is on the list as I like the Invisible 200 model also along with the Ford Ranger, Navara, L200 and Izuzu... The later is very nice in Denver model.... I need the space to carry my bike in and the ability to tow a horse box sometime a double one....+ all the bits and bobs that my daughter has now acumilated for her horse....

But I want and Auto with cruise control and climate... got to have me gadgets....

I think that is the formula supermarkets have been using for a long time now !!

It is also interesting that Volkswagen were very keen to replace the Golf because production costs were too high and in fact the new Volkswagen Golf is cheaper to manufacturer than the old one !!

They are taking this route also with other cars in there line up

Didn't realise there was a press release on 2009 RAV4 on TOC. See below:

[url="http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/news/publish/2009_RAV4_WITH_TOYOTA_OPTIMAL_DRIVE.shtml"]http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/news/publi...MAL_DRIVE.shtml[/url]

On the spare wheel discussions, all manufacturers are pushing for better weight management, lower emissions and factory cost savings. That is why we'll see less spare wheels as standard. I'm not sure I agree with this but who am I to argue?!

I'm planning on test driving the SR auto as I think it looks great and the transmission (already on the Avensis) is superb.

Also notice that the price of petrol and diesel at the moment is beginning to even itself out?!?!

So Run Flats then, none on the new model - I take it I and the other t180 & sr180 owners are the last of the line then.

Is that not an unsaid acceptance by Toyota that the system was no good?. The rims on the new one look suspiciously like mine, so presumably Toyota cannot really be surprised if dealers start getting asked at tyre time to remove and fit 'normal' tyres without the band. To me that seems the only sensible solution when the tyres are up for changing and something I am going to ask the dealer.

I wonder when the fitment was only one model and (relatively) a handful of cars, how long Bridgestone will continue with the 'gastric bands' when they fit no others and people like DaronB have gone the route of ripping up and starting again (sounds like an Orange Juice line - age is a terrible thing )

These transmissions want road testing carefully. In the first place the newer CVTs are much better than they used to be so worth a look on the petrols. I am a bit sceptical about the 6 speed as I understand from the bumf that it has an auto clutch. A mate had this on a 3 series BMW and it was a cow to use e.g. while turning in a confined space - you just could not regulate it, it was on or off. Even after several ECUs it was not resolved and as his wife couldn't cope with it they got rid in the end. This new Toyota one might be OK but prospective buyers might like to pay attention as it might not show up on a "normal" drive.

[quote name='anchorman' post='911311' date='Jul 7 2009, 07:24 AM']These transmissions want road testing carefully. In the first place the newer CVTs are much better than they used to be so worth a look on the petrols. I am a bit sceptical about the 6 speed as I understand from the bumf that it has an auto clutch. A mate had this on a [b]3 series BMW [/b]and it was a cow to use e.g. while turning in a confined space - you just could not regulate it, it was on or off. Even after several ECUs it was not resolved and as his wife couldn't cope with it they got rid in the end. This new Toyota one might be OK but prospective buyers might like to pay attention as it might not show up on a "normal" drive.[/quote]

I take it this was an M3 SMG

He should have been driving it ....not doing three point turns!

It was Fuj' It didn't bother him as he just gunned it everywhere but his Mrs couldn't manage with it.

[quote name='anchorman' post='911629' date='Jul 8 2009, 07:29 AM']It was Fuj' It didn't bother him as he just gunned it everywhere but his Mrs couldn't manage with it.[/quote]

I can imagine it would have been a bit of a hand full in a tight carpark

[quote name='Fujisan' post='911649' date='Jul 8 2009, 08:55 AM'][quote name='anchorman' post='911629' date='Jul 8 2009, 07:29 AM']It was Fuj' It didn't bother him as he just gunned it everywhere but his Mrs couldn't manage with it.[/quote]

I can imagine it would have been a bit of a hand full in a tight carpark
[/quote]
I must admit it was a bit awkward - he demonstrated it to me. If you tried to ease backwards it just dropped the clutch and lurched backwards.

I just hope the RAV does something more refined.

[/quote]
I must admit it was a bit awkward - he demonstrated it to me. If you tried to ease backwards it just dropped the clutch and lurched backwards.

I just hope the RAV does something more refined.
[/quote]

Like a pirouette?

[quote name='Davrav' post='911739' date='Jul 8 2009, 03:48 PM']I must admit it was a bit awkward - he demonstrated it to me. If you tried to ease backwards it just dropped the clutch and lurched backwards.

I just hope the RAV does something more refined.


Like a pirouette?[/quote]
Nice and smooooth