Towbar - Confused

[Mike5100]

We've just bought a 53 Rav4 5 door GX d-4d fitted with 215/70/16 tyres, and I'm totally confused about what tow bar to fit. The vehicle has a step by the way, but if this poses a problem we'd remove it. We'd like to fit a detachable but Brinks site seems to be saying not possible with these tyres. Witter seem to make one that is OK, but it says on their website "RAV 4 3 door (SWB) & 5 door (LWB) -models with lowered suspension a detachable towbar is recommended-see vehicle hand book". But is the Rav 4 we have bought a LWB - I don't think so, nor am I sure whether it has lowered suspension.

We could fit a fixed towbar, but surely if the rear door is to be able to be opened, this puts the ball too low for pulling a twin axle trailer?

Thanks

Mike

[bitman]

3 Drs -> SWB

5 Drs -> LWB

[pmb]

I've posted this before, my 2002 brochure specifically says " For 4x4 vehicles with 215 tyres a fixed Tow bar must be used. Trailer coupling must be removed to open rear door" I assume the 2003 model could be the same. I don't really understand why , surely it's fixed to the body and not dependant on tyre size or suspension? I have a factory fitted removeable on mine (235 tyres) and there is even a warning sticker about not opening the rear door with a trailer attached.

[Mike5100]

3 Drs -> SWB

5 Drs -> LWB

You'd think

.... but according to the PDF's on Toyota's site the wheelbase of the 3dr and the 5dr are identical at 2490mm

Mike

[Mike5100]

I've posted this before, my 2002 brochure specifically says " For 4x4 vehicles with 215 tyres a fixed Tow bar must be used. Trailer coupling must be removed to open rear door" I assume the 2003 model could be the same. I don't really understand why , surely it's fixed to the body and not dependant on tyre size or suspension? I have a factory fitted removeable on mine (235 tyres) and there is even a warning sticker about not opening the rear door with a trailer attached.

I still don't get it, isn't the 215/235 dimension the width of the tyre - what effect can this have on whether the door opens, and how does that quote from the book stack up. If it's a fixed tow bar how can you remove the trailer coupling .... or do they mean that you must uncouple the trailer to open the rear door. Does it mean that the rear door just clears the ball but not the hitch.

A fixed bar would be acceptable if the ball height is not lower than normal

Anyone else fitted towbars?

Thanks

Mike

[pmb]

Here's the full text.

[Mike5100]

I think I understand now. The /70 does not mean 70mm height as I thought, but 70% of the tyre width - so a 235 tyre would make the vehicle 14mm taller than the 215 tyre. So now the question is - would it be OK to fit 235 tyres just on the back of this GX, so we could have the detachable towbar fitted.

Thanks

Mike

[pmb]

The 235's are 60 profile btw.I wouldn't have thought it a good idea to have different size tyres on a 4wd vehicle but I may be wrong. The wider tyres weren't offered as a factory option on the gx 2002.

[Mike5100]

The 235's are 60 profile btw.I wouldn't have thought it a good idea to have different size tyres on a 4wd vehicle but I may be wrong. The wider tyres weren't offered as a factory option on the gx 2002.

OK - so that makes the 235's actually 9mm lower than the 215s. I suspect that 9mm difference in height between front and back would not be a problem (but mightbe wrong).

So what Toyota are saying is that if you have 215 tyres (9mm higher), it would put the ball of a detachable too high to be legal? Would anyone ever notice this?

Mike

[Davrav]

The 235's are 60 profile btw.I wouldn't have thought it a good idea to have different size tyres on a 4wd vehicle but I may be wrong. The wider tyres weren't offered as a factory option on the gx 2002.

OK - so that makes the 235's actually 9mm lower than the 215s. I suspect that 9mm difference in height between front and back would not be a problem (but mightbe wrong).

So what Toyota are saying is that if you have 215 tyres (9mm higher), it would put the ball of a detachable too high to be legal? Would anyone ever notice this?

Mike

I'm pretty sure an 18mm difference in diameter would have a fairly significant effect on the rolling circumference between front and back wheels. Wouldn't this cause a conflict in systems such as VSC and traction control/4WD. Front wheels would always be rotating faster than back

[bitman]

yes it does indeed! and if you have a 4.2 your limited slip diff will make overtime and will burn out

our 5drs 2001 gx had 215 and the 3drs nrg has 235 but when the nrg needs new tires i will put 215 on it (all 4 tires) less wander and a bit better economy

[Mike5100]

good points davrav

Mike

[Hoovie]

Hi Mike,

3 Drs -> SWB

5 Drs -> LWB

You'd think

.... but according to the PDF's on Toyota's site the wheelbase of the 3dr and the 5dr are identical at 2490mm

Mike

In the Owners Manual, the Wheelbase of the 5 door is 2490mm, and the 3 door, the wheelbase is 2280mm

The 235's are 60 profile btw.I wouldn't have thought it a good idea to have different size tyres on a 4wd vehicle but I may be wrong. The wider tyres weren't offered as a factory option on the gx 2002.

OK - so that makes the 235's actually 9mm lower than the 215s.  I suspect that 9mm difference in height between front and back would not be a problem (but mightbe wrong).  

So what Toyota are saying is that if you have 215 tyres (9mm higher), it would put the ball of a detachable too high to be legal?  Would anyone ever notice this?

Mike

Again, the Owners Manual state the height of the RAV4 with 215/70 tyres as 1715mm  (with roof rails), and with 235/60 tyres as 1705 (with roof rails), so as you rightly say, the 235/60 shod car is lower.

Here is some food for thought - Toyota offer two types of Towbar for the RAV4.2 - the fixed one that they say you have to have due to the type of215/70  tyres, and a detachable one where the towball has to be removed in order to be able to open the rear door (and is not suitable for a 215/70 shod car presumably for the reason you said?)

A THIRD option is to buy the Brinks (now Thule) alternative version of the detachable bar.  Brinks made the Toyota badged Towbar for Toyota, but they also do a version that has a slightly lower ball and the rear door clears when the towball is in place.  This has got to be near enough the same height as the fixed towbar so if the reason is due to legal height, you will be ok IMO.

The mounting points for the Detachable Brinks Tow Bar is exactly the same as for the chrome bar, so if you could fit a Chrome Bar to the back of your RAV  then you can fit a Detachable TowBar - I know that as when I fitted my Towbar, I simply had to remove the Chrome Bar, then sandwich the towbar mounts in-between the mountings and the Chrome Bar that goes back into place, and refit the bolts (the metal brackets, etc that come with the towbar are the exact same ones as those used to fit the chrome bar)

I got mine from Towequipe - they sell via an eBay shop.

HTH

H.

[Mike5100]

again - great stuff H - I'm going to print that off, digest it and talk to Hedley towbars in Durham about what to order.

.... I'm hoping that it;s just the wheelbase that is wrong on the PDFs on Toyota's site and not the overall length of the vehicle - otherwise it ain't going to fit where we think (I have assumed 4200mm I think for the 5dr)

Mike

[Hoovie]

again - great stuff H - I'm going to print that off, digest it and talk to Hedley towbars in Durham about what to order.

.... I'm hoping that it;s just the wheelbase that is wrong on the PDFs on Toyota's site and not the overall length of the vehicle - otherwise it ain't going to fit where we think (I have assumed 4200mm I think for the 5dr)

Mike

not sure what won't fit where you think it will fit (car in garage? towbar?)

So in terms on Length of Vehicle:

4225mm  with half-cover on spare wheel

4265mm with Fulll Spare Wheel Cover (this I think is what all UK RAV4.2s tend to have? - so an extra 2"  from 4200mm

If you got a front nudge bar, then that sticks out a couple of inches as well.

Where abouts are you located, Mike?

[bitman]

sorry, but we had have both 5drs and 3drs at the same time and i can assure you that the 5drs was longer

[Mike5100]

I was going to say a million miles from you - then I saw Scottish Borders. I'm near Hartlepool. The 4200 dimension isn't that critical - if it had been a foot longer than I'd allowed I would have had a problem getting past it.

Thanks

Mike

[Hoovie]

I was going to say a million miles from you - then I saw Scottish Borders.  I'm near Hartlepool.  The 4200 dimension isn't that critical - if it had been a foot longer than I'd allowed I would have had a problem getting past it.

Thanks

Mike

Just wondering as I am selling my RAV4 and could take off the Towbar and sell it to you cheap  ;) - postage to hartlepool still not cheap though  :)

[Mike5100]

thanks hoovie but Hedleys have quoted me £240 for the Brinks detachable fitted and wired, and while I wait, so given that it would probably take me a complete weekend to do any diy job, I'll stick with them.

Thanks for the offer though

Mike

[Hoovie]

thanks hoovie but Hedleys have quoted me £240 for the Brinks detachable fitted and wired, and while I wait, so given that it would probably take me a complete weekend to do any diy job, I'll stick with them.

Thanks for the offer though

Mike

£240 for supply and fit with wiring is a very good deal 

[Hoovie]

Forgot to add something re Brinks Detachable Towbar.

They have two types as I mentioned - one that fouls the rear door when towball  fitted (this is the one that is supplied to Toyota); and one that clears the rear door when  towball fitted.

I think the two look identical, but the components are not interchangable, so you need to be sure which one you need towball wise before fitting.  

Why they could not have the same part fitted to the car and just have two styles of detachable towballs available I don't know! 

[Mike5100]

This is getting silly .....

Had a long conversation with Hedley Towbars in Durham who I have a huge respect for. They have said they dread questions about the Rav 4, and that all of the towbars they are allowed to fit to our particular Rav4 (the 4.2) will put the towball height at 375mm. This is Toyota's specification and even though they could do some jiggery pokery to make the ball sit higher, they are not allowed to otherwise it would invalidate the type approval of the bar for the particular car.

Now a tow ball height of 375mm is a whopping 3 inches below the hitch height of the horse trailers and caravans we have been looking at. Hedleys have confirmed that a 3 inch difference will make a twin axle trailer unstable on the road.

How do I explain to my daughter that the car I've advised her to get is one of the few on the road that seems unable to tow her horse around.

Mike

[Parts-King]

Sorry to come in at the end of this thread but a detachable tow bar is NOT available for this model

The fixed tow bar is the only option available for this vehicle. After testing and following whole vehicle type approval, it has been found that the detachable tow bar will not fit this model.

Kingo

[Mike5100]

Sorry to come in at the end of this thread but a detachable tow bar is NOT available for this model

The fixed tow bar is the only option available for this vehicle. After testing and following whole vehicle type approval, it has been found that the detachable tow bar will not fit this model.

Kingo

Been reading up some more on the caravan sites and I keep coming across comments like this one ' It would be reasonable to assume that it is either for a 4x4, which is exempt from the towball height requirement, ....' Is this true - are 4by4s exempt from meeting the towball height requirement, and if so is the Rav4 not a 4x4?

.... The caravan sites have provided some good advice, but they are nearly all single axle, so they prefer to travel slightly nose down and balance the noseweight by loading the caravan appropriately - don't know whether that works for a twin axle horse trailer.

Mike

[Mike5100]

...... and what about this strange statement on the Witter website

'In all instances it is imperative that the tow ball height is correct in accordance to EC regulations. Measurements taken on a level surface from the ground to either the centre of the tow ball or the centre of the coupling head should not exceed heights indicated below.

Caravans should not exceed: 430mm +/-35mm

Cars should not exceed: 385mm +/-35mm'

.... what on earth does that mean?

Mike