D4-D Em Light On And Power Loss

[mekachow]

Hi there .. new to the site, just bought our first RAV, a 2003 GX with 61.5K miles on the clock. Have been having problems all week with the engine management light coming on if you push it above 2800 rpm and the car's power then fading away. Stop and turn the engine off and it resets OK, and it drives OK below these 'higher' revs. Have been reading posts on this subject (SCV valves etc) but the dealer we bought it from took the car to Toyota for a diagnostic today and they want to replace the turbo at a rather nasty £1500..!

Ok, they are Toyota so they must know what they are talking about, right..? Only they said they hardly ever do any repair work, mainly just servicing and it just seems so unlikely bearing in mind the reliability of the RAV and its two owner, full service history. Any thoughts or should we just cancel Christmas..? THANKS!

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

Ask them for the fault code.

[mekachow]

Welcome to the club.

Ask them for the fault code.

Will get this from them tomorrow. Took one of their mechanics out in the car to demonstrate the problem this morning and it cooperated nicely, they then worked on the car for almost four hours before coming to the 'Turbo' conclusion. They also swapped out the SCVs with another car they had in but this made no difference apparently, so we may well be stuck with the new turbo option.

[bothwell_buyer]

I personally would get another opinion from an engine tuning shop who specialise in Jap cars.

[igormus]

Hi there .. new to the site, just bought our first RAV, a 2003 GX with 61.5K miles on the clock. Have been having problems all week with the engine management light coming on if you push it above 2800 rpm and the car's power then fading away. Stop and turn the engine off and it resets OK, and it drives OK below these 'higher' revs. Have been reading posts on this subject (SCV valves etc) but the dealer we bought it from took the car to Toyota for a diagnostic today and they want to replace the turbo at a rather nasty £1500..!

Ok, they are Toyota so they must know what they are talking about, right..? Only they said they hardly ever do any repair work, mainly just servicing and it just seems so unlikely bearing in mind the reliability of the RAV and its two owner, full service history. Any thoughts or should we just cancel Christmas..? THANKS!

hi mate

i feel it is an EGR wants to be cleaned giving a brake effect if more than 2,8k rpm. In other words the gases voluume below 2,8k can be flown thru EGR but not over than this rate of rpm. Leave turbo free so far :)

Cheers/Igor

[mekachow]

hi mate

i feel it is an EGR wants to be cleaned giving a brake effect if more than 2,8k rpm. In other words the gases voluume below 2,8k can be flown thru EGR but not over than this rate of rpm. Leave turbo free so far :)

Cheers/Igor

THANKS Igor, have found pics of where the EGR lives on the 2.2 engine and will have the hood up tonight to see if I can spot it on our 2003 2.0 motor. These things always seem more of a pain in the winter when its cold and dark, yuk.

[anchorman]

The EGR is completely different on yours. There isn't a lot to go wrong with the turbo that wouldn't be very obvious. I might have a fiddle with the VSV before going to those lengths.

[mekachow]

The EGR is completely different on yours. There isn't a lot to go wrong with the turbo that wouldn't be very obvious. I might have a fiddle with the VSV before going to those lengths.

Hi Anchorman - latest episode : took the car back to the dealers today. They put some cleaning additive into the tank and revved the car whilst it was ticking over and it responded freely. They then took the car for a run up the dual carriageway - it promptly did it's party trick, engine light on at 3000rpm and fading power. The test driver pushed the car through this and the engine light went off, he drove it pretty hard and up to 4-5000rpm and our poor RAV was surging badly and was not a happy truck. When he stopped doing this however it then drove smoothly through 3000rpm and only began protesting again if he tried to go over 4000rpm, with no sign of the engine light coming on at all.

This seems like an improvement of sorts (though not to my fuel guage)..? and I have arranged to take the car in on Thursday to have the fuel filter replaced. I will print off anything I can find on the VSV and give them that to look at as well, Toyota are supposed to have swapped out the SCV's to no avail so we are narrowing down the possibilities, I suppose..!

[anchorman]

The VSV controls the turbo and is relatively inexpensive. You can sometimes recover them by putting WD40 inside the ports;

vsv.pdf

[mekachow]

The VSV controls the turbo and is relatively inexpensive. You can sometimes recover them by putting WD40 inside the ports;

vsv.pdf

Have sent the dealer all the stuff I can find on the forum with regard to this problem and will keep you posted, thanks for the support guys.

[mekachow]

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone and all the best for 2011.

UPDATE on my naughty RAV : problem persists. Driving the car normally - if you pay close attention - you can tell when he is going to misbehave. There is a slight hesitation as the revs climb towards 3000rpm and at that point you need to back off. If you miss the warning sign the engine management light comes on and the power begins to fade until the car comes to a halt. Turn off the ignition for a few seconds and all is OK again.

Toyota swapped out the SCV valves, they said, and it made no difference.

£26 spent on diesel engine cleaning additive, made no difference.

Fuel filter was then changed, made no difference.

VSV valve replaced, made no difference.

Fault happened again yesterday as we climbed a hill in fourth gear at around 2800rpm. Pulled over, switched off then drove home with revs up and over 3000rpm with no problems whatsoever. Dealer says 'Variable Vane Turbo' may still be the cause of all this, before we fork out for a new turbo is there anything else we may have missed..? Love the car but what a tricky first month..!

[igormus]

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone and all the best for 2011.

UPDATE on my naughty RAVI : problem persists. Driving the car normally - if you pay close attention - you can tell when he is going to misbehave. There is a slight hesitation as the revs climb towards 3000rpm and at that point you need to back off. If you miss the warning sign the engine management light comes on and the power begins to fade until the car comes to a halt. Turn off the ignition for a few seconds and all is OK again.

Toyota swapped out the SCV valves, they said, and it made no difference.

£26 spent on diesel engine cleaning additive, made no difference.

Fuel filter was then changed, made no difference.

VSV valve replaced, made no difference.

Fault happened again yesterday as we climbed a hill in fourth gear at around 2800rpm. Pulled over, switched off then drove home with revs up and over 3000rpm with no problems whatsoever. Dealer says 'Variable Vane Turbo' may still be the cause of all this, before we fork out for a new turbo is there anything else we may have missed..? Love the car but what a tricky first month..!

hello again

the slight hesitation is related to both poor injection and sticking of variable vanes , then.

Check with flexibility of the vanes axises and vanes driving mechanism. Cheers/Igor

[anchorman]

Take the vac unit off the turbo and check the linkage moves freely without jamming.

[mekachow]

WILL DO, the better half is at work in the car during the day so I will get the spanners out again at the weekend.

Thanks for your input and support guys, I want to stick with this and bring the posted topic to a proper 'so that's what it was' conclusion rather than have it just fade out. Ever the optimist..! Hopefully the info will be of some use to another owner when we get there.

[igormus]

WILL DO, the better half is at work in the car during the day so I will get the spanners out again at the weekend.

Thanks for your input and support guys, I want to stick with this and bring the posted topic to a proper 'so that's what it was' conclusion rather than have it just fade out. Ever the optimist..! Hopefully the info will be of some use to another owner when we get there.

yes, it's good practice to type an outcome of your efforts.

good luck/Igor

[mekachow]

Saturday : stripped out the air filter box to create space and removed the EGR vacuum unit. That was working as it should, sucking on it moved the bolt in the centre up and down around half an inch. The vacuum unit was attached to a metal lever on the side of the turbo, via a pivot arrangement. The metal lever was very stiff to operate and would hardly move at all when tried at first.

Sprayed it thoroughly with anti-seize and began working it up and down. It eventually began moving more freely but there was still a 'catch' in its movement that you had to push it through. Unfortunately the job was cut short for an unplanned 'Father In Law To Hospital' situation, this involved running the RAV and the problem is still there, it became reluctant, faded and died twice in the course of Saturday afternoon but I am encouraged that I have found something that does not appear to be working as it should. Going to get back under the bonnet tomorrow and continue trying to free this turbo mounted lever off, can't see any better way of doing it other than patience and anti-seize.

Sunday : Back at it, the lever seems to be moving quite freely this morning, gave it another squirt and remounted EGR vacuum unit then out for a test run. No change. Gets a bit jittery under fairly hard acceleration then EM light on and fading to a stop. Dealer is taking the car in next week to check the fuel tank lift pump, apparently this has a non replaceable filter in it that may be partly blocked. The saga continues..!

[mekachow]

EUREKA. Success at last. The fuel tank does not have a 'lift pump' fitted to it, just a pipe and valve system, but the tank had a lot of debris in it from years of use so this was flushed out, the extractor valve kit replaced but again, no change on the test drive. Lots of colourful language was used then we returned to the newly freed off lever on the side of the turbo. A friendly mechanic-type person described this as the waste-gate and said it was crucial to the turbo's gas flow, so it was again sprayed with anti seize and its free movement encouraged. The breakthrough came when it was realised that the lever starts life in the lowered position and is raised by the EGR vacuum once the engine is running. Played with the adjustable bolt and pivot connection to the EGR to put the turbo mounted lever at a lower position and HURRAH, the car ran like a young stoat on Red Bull. Three test drives later and RAV runs perfectly again. Now, where's that bottle of Grouse..?

[Davrav]

EUREKA. Success at last. The fuel tank does not have a 'lift pump' fitted to it, just a pipe and valve system, but the tank had a lot of debris in it from years of use so this was flushed out, the extractor valve kit replaced but again, no change on the test drive. Lots of colourful language was used then we returned to the newly freed off lever on the side of the turbo. A friendly mechanic-type person described this as the waste-gate and said it was crucial to the turbo's gas flow, so it was again sprayed with anti seize and its free movement encouraged. The breakthrough came when it was realised that the lever starts life in the lowered position and is raised by the EGR vacuum once the engine is running. Played with the adjustable bolt and pivot connection to the EGR to put the turbo mounted lever at a lower position and HURRAH, the car ran like a young stoat on Red Bull. Three test drives later and RAV runs perfectly again. Now, where's that bottle of Grouse..?

Congratulations on fixing the problem and full marks for persistence

[anchorman]

Would you mind posting a photo of the bit you adjusted

[mekachow]

Pic 01 : Pop on some surgical gloves, open the bonnet and inspect your - preferably cold - engine bay.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd431/mackesa/RAV4%20EGR/Rav001.jpg

Pic 02 : To the right is the large, rectangular air cleaner box. Access to EGR is easier with this removed.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd431/mackesa/RAV4%20EGR/Rav002.jpg

Pic 03 : As you gaze at the top end of the air cleaner, the EGR vacuum unit can be seen in the left of the picture, marked in this case with a small smear of green paint.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd431/mackesa/RAV4%20EGR/Rav003.jpg

Pic 04 : The EGR vacuum unit is held in place by two 10mm bolts. Be careful not to drop these into the engine bay or they will hide from you for the rest of the afternoon.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd431/mackesa/RAV4%20EGR/Rav006.jpg

Pic 05 : Beneath the EGR vacuum unit is a threaded linkage to the turbo wastegate flap. After removing the two 10mm bolts you should feel the wastegate lever opening and closing freely as you move the vacuum unit up and down. If it fails to move, it has stuck and you will need to remove the vacuum unit completely to access the linkage. Important to note that the height at which this screwed linkage holds the EGR vacuum is adjustable. There is a small 10mm locknut holding the linkage at the optimum height and you will need to replicate this when you put it back together. As a guide, the EGR should sit two or three mm ABOVE the point at which the two 10mm bolts hold it on the turbo, so that you have to push it gently down into position to rebolt it.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd431/mackesa/RAV4%20EGR/Rav018.jpg

[pendinerav]

EUREKA. Success at last. The fuel tank does not have a 'lift pump' fitted to it, just a pipe and valve system, but the tank had a lot of debris in it from years of use so this was flushed out, the extractor valve kit replaced but again, no change on the test drive. Lots of colourful language was used then we returned to the newly freed off lever on the side of the turbo. A friendly mechanic-type person described this as the waste-gate and said it was crucial to the turbo's gas flow, so it was again sprayed with anti seize and its free movement encouraged. The breakthrough came when it was realised that the lever starts life in the lowered position and is raised by the EGR vacuum once the engine is running. Played with the adjustable bolt and pivot connection to the EGR to put the turbo mounted lever at a lower position and HURRAH, the car ran like a young stoat on Red Bull. Three test drives later and RAV runs perfectly again. Now, where's that bottle of Grouse..?

Hi very interesting - we have just exchanged our Yaris for a Rav4 (2003) due to work needs. We have encountered exactly the same problem. Has your problem returned or does it appear to have been solved by freeing the lever you have referred to?

[mickwitch]

EUREKA. Success at last. The fuel tank does not have a 'lift pump' fitted to it, just a pipe and valve system, but the tank had a lot of debris in it from years of use so this was flushed out, the extractor valve kit replaced but again, no change on the test drive. Lots of colourful language was used then we returned to the newly freed off lever on the side of the turbo. A friendly mechanic-type person described this as the waste-gate and said it was crucial to the turbo's gas flow, so it was again sprayed with anti seize and its free movement encouraged. The breakthrough came when it was realised that the lever starts life in the lowered position and is raised by the EGR vacuum once the engine is running. Played with the adjustable bolt and pivot connection to the EGR to put the turbo mounted lever at a lower position and HURRAH, the car ran like a young stoat on Red Bull. Three test drives later and RAV runs perfectly again. Now, where's that bottle of Grouse..?

Hi very interesting - we have just exchanged our Yaris for a Rav4 (2003) due to work needs. We have encountered exactly the same problem. Has your problem returned or does it appear to have been solved by freeing the lever you have referred to?

hi im having the same problem with my rav 4 d4d the garage said the waste gate was sticking alittle and relesed it but put it back together without adjustment and im still having the problem especially wen the engine is cold wen the engine is warm it hardly happens. can anyone give me some advise as this is very frustrating. thank you

[2manyg]

Going to be trying this fix in the next couple of weeks as soon as it warms up a bit!

Have swapped the SCV valves and cleaned the EGR already, exactly the same symptoms as the original poster. Have looked at the waste gate before, it was sticking but some WD40 and some encouragement helped, it currently only hesitates or cuts out when cold, and only if you push it. Hoping this adjustment will finally sort the problem, I'll post once done!

[2manyg]

Hi guys, the sun is finally out so I thought I'd have another crack at this. Upon disconnecting the two 10mm bolts holding the wastegate on I found it sat about 3mm high. According to this fix this is normal so I thought I would try lowering it by 3mm (so you don't have to push it down at all to reattach). This made the problem much worse. Next I tried about 6mm high and it seems to have fixed it!

There is definitely less turbo boost but at least is a nice smooth power delivery with no hesitations or cutting out, even when cold!

I'll see how I get on with this but it's looking good! Thanks for the advice!

[Bodgit-fixit-run]

How come I never noticed this. I'll have a look at mine tomorrow