Early Avensis With Vvt Engine.

[BigMo82]

Are the T25's fitted with an oil cooler?

[t-spiritpete]

Are the T25's fitted with an oil cooler?

I think it maybe just the diesels.

Pete.

[fastbob72]

That's possible pete certainly with the Carina E which was built in Japan but the Avensis was built over here so it seems unlikely they fitted oil coolers to the original '97-00 1.8 Avensis on the grounds of potential export to hotter more rugged climates.I must admit I was surprised when I saw my W-reg 1.8 GS had an oil cooler,it's not something you expect on sensible family car but more often performance cars,turbo charged cars and the like.

It's a pity cos my GS sat in the drive for around a week after I got my current car before driving it to the breakers.If I'd known more about the vvti's issues right at the start I'd have whipped the cooler system there n then :)

It makes me wonder,considering they've had a number of recalls on certain models over the last decade if it wasn't fitted to the vvti simply to cut down on costs.

It also seems odd that they took aslong to do something about the 1ZZ's design flaws because,I believe anyway,the engine had been in use a little while before the Avensis got it,surely these issues would have been raised before then.

Of course,these things do happen.The early Astra GTE 16v had Redtop engines with Cosworth built heads then Vauxhall took over using the infamous porous Cocast heads.I suppose manufacturers of the size of Toyota or GM will have potential for these oversights not to be picked up before a large volume of cars have gone out the door :(

One thing is for sure,I doubt there will be as many early vvti Avensis's clocking up the sorts of mileages that the Carina E has.Though I'd expect there to be a good few 7A-FE Avensis clocking up Carina E miles !!!

[fastbob72]

That's possible pete certainly with the Carina E which was built in Japan but the Avensis was built over here so it seems unlikely they fitted oil coolers to the original '97-00 1.8 Avensis on the grounds of potential export to hotter more rugged climates.I must admit I was surprised when I saw my W-reg 1.8 GS had an oil cooler,it's not something you expect on sensible family car but more often performance cars,turbo charged cars and the like.

It's a pity cos my GS sat in the drive for around a week after I got my current car before driving it to the breakers.If I'd known more about the vvti's issues right at the start I'd have whipped the cooler system there n then :)

It makes me wonder,considering they've had a number of recalls on certain models over the last decade if it wasn't fitted to the vvti simply to cut down on costs.

It also seems odd that they took aslong to do something about the 1ZZ's design flaws because,I believe anyway,the engine had been in use a little while before the Avensis got it,surely these issues would have been raised before then.

Of course,these things do happen.The early Astra GTE 16v had Redtop engines with Cosworth built heads then Vauxhall took over using the infamous porous Cocast heads.I suppose manufacturers of the size of Toyota or GM will have potential for these oversights not to be picked up before a large volume of cars have gone out the door :(

One thing is for sure,I doubt there will be as many early vvti Avensis's clocking up the sorts of mileages that the Carina E has.Though I'd expect there to be a good few 7A-FE Avensis clocking up Carina E miles !!!

[fastbob72]

I have to admit Roker I thought it had a shallower sump because of the volume of oil was less.

Either way there doesn't have to be a large clearance between the level of oil and the crank to allow for cornering forces partly because most sumps have some degree of baffling to combat the oil freely slopping around the sump under cornering and braking.The reason is less about the rotating crank and predominanty so the oil pick up and strainer isn't starved of oil.If it's completely uncovered it'll draw air instead of oil,not good at all :(

As far as oil momentary being whipped by the crank under cornering or braking it isn't really a problem as it's just that momentary therefore few engines have much of space between the oil and crank when the engines at it's normal,level at rest state.

It's hard to say without doing the maths and measuring the clearance whether an extra 10mm or 0.8 litre would create a possible issue.The best solution would be a modified sump though.

Cheers for posting that pdf btw,

[t-spiritpete]

To all,

this has been a great discussion and I believe both the said Toyota engines have their merit, it's just a pity the VVTI didn't have the reliability AND the performance.

The early Astra GTE engine was/is very a good engine and if my memory serves me well many tried to improve the camshaft design in this engine but I don't think any aftermarket people like piper etc could match it, .... sometimes manufacturers get right first time ;) .

Regards Pete.

[Flakmann]

****; studying these posts, I`m swinging here like a pendulum between the 7A FE and the 1ZZ.

Let me get this straight:

a) the 7A FE is a good older generation engine, ex Carina E, which has proper rectangular piston rings, plenty of oil ports,only a 3.7 litre sump capacity;probably doesn`t need any more because of good oil circulation. Not prone to making oil sludge. Could have an oil cooler,but probably not.

b) the 1ZZ had trapezoidal piston rings to reduce friction, but unfortunately these let more oil past to get burned, not enough piston oil ports,which caused poor oil circulation and sludge making burnt oil in the piston area. Partially cured by increasing the oil capacity to 4.7 litres. No oil cooler fitted.

I`m not interested in performance anymore, so it`s looking like a well serviced 7A FE would be the best bet for me, although it will use a drop more petrol.

On the other hand if a well documented 1ZZ engined Avensis came on on the scene, which wasn`t as yet using a lot af oil, fitting the bigger capacity sump, and possibly an oil cooler as well, would be the way to go.

Thanks a lot guys, glad I joined this forum before taking the plunge!

[fastbob72]

Absolutely it's been a great discussion.I did set out to defend the 1ZZ's honour and may have missed the point slightly because an early Avensis,even in A1 immaculate condition is realistically worth maybe £1,000 though seen a couple for up to £1500.

It doesn't really make financial sense to buy an early vvti if there's a real possibility of it developing expensive oil problems,particularly if what you want most is trouble free,reliable motoring.

I can't stress strongly enough how reliable and robust the 7A-FE engine is,the 1ZZ-FE is superior in it's performance,a fraction better on fuel,37 mpg next to 39 mpg,in my experience.

The earlier 7A-FE engined car is the sensible choice.You have to be pretty sure of how good the engine is,how well it's been looked after,serviced and be aware of what can go wrong if you're going for an early vvti !!!

When you consider the potential cost of a garage fixing a 1ZZ engine that is using too much oil it does seem a risky choice on a 10 year old car though I do stand by a good one being a really nice engine.

Btw pete,I'll go on record as saying the Vauxhall 2.0 16v XE is the probably the best n/a DOHC 16v engine you can get.It was designed for racing by Cosworth then slightly civilised to go in the mk2 Astra GTE 16v simply so they could sell the required amount of road cars to use it motorsport.It was meant from the word go tn power the Cavalier in Touring Car racing.I've had a number of them in Cavalier GSi's and SRi16v.Have rebuilt n modified 2 of them and you're right in that there's no point changing the cams unless you're going to rally/race levels of tuning.

As for the oil cooler debate my 1.8 GS definitely had one and it appears to be standard on earlier models.Whether it genuinely required it I'm unsure but the early vvti doesn't have one anyway.

What it was that made the engineering team that developed the initial vvti model believe it wasn't necessary is open to speculation but maybe if the new lower friction rings and the lubrication system works the way it was designed to it's not essential.

It would seem that oil temp is at the heart of the problem compounding the other flaws with rings and pistons.

And that's how the early vvti is remembered,a very nice engine but flawed and in relation to the original question it's a risky choice next to the 7A which will outlast the rest of the car :)

[BigMo82]

I found this online which is for the 1az-fse.

[Konrad C]

So it possible to fit an oil cooler to the vvti engine.

The two pdf's posted show how they are fitted and the installation looks straight forward.

As I said in another post, this forum has thrown up some great questions and answers.

My 7A-FE did it's usual stirling service when I went to some friends in Peacehaven, Sussex. Coming back I was followed by a red MK2 upto the M25 when we went are seperate ways. He did have a great turn of speed but I am not envious.

[Roker]

Do I assume that the 2 large tubes are water feed and return from the engine cooling? I have seen other similar filter adaptors where I think it is a oil feed and return to a radiator oil cooler

[Flakmann]

A quick update guys;

I`ve bought a 7A-Fe engined `98 Auto Avensis, FSH with 70k on the clock. Seems in good nick, and well worth the wait, but there`s no mention of a cambelt change in the history.

So I`m anxious to do that job.

(a) What mileage do Toyota state a change is due, and,

(b) Should the waterpump be changed at the same time?

Any pointers welcome. thanks.