This'll Upset The Diesel Fan Boys :)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Is this hybrid connected? I think so. It looks like the Government have finally accepted that the dash for diesel was a big mistake. To pay penance they're now charging all diesel cars (below Euro 6 which is as clean as petrol) £10 a day to enter London on top of the existing congestion charge.

I'm sure the diesel fan boys will all be up in arms but with diesel emissions of a modern Euro5 diesel being 20 times higher than the maximum of a similar petrol/hybrid car and a Euro 4 diesel being anything over 200 times higher, you can see how replacing one diesel car with a petrol can help reduce the emissions significantly.

Good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28540259

And with London taxis having to be zero emission from about 2020 that too will have a significant effect. Just look at the picture on the article. There is no need to breath in that smog.

Hybrid cars have always had very low emissions and the Prius complies with the ultra strict Californian ultra low emission restrictions. And these are the emissions from the car whilst the engine is running. As we know all too well with the Prius (or any Toyota HSD), the engine is usually off in stationary and (importantly) slow moving traffic.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

About time tbh.

[korat102]

Most vehicles in London are there on business. Vans, delivery vehicles, buses, taxis. This will just do what every tax does; increase costs for customers as prices for everything goes up to compensate. While some people will probably be happy at this, to me it just looks like another money grab exercise using emissions as an excuse (there's always one they can use whenever they need more money). Not that it bothers me, I wouldn't drive in London for all the tea in China...spent enough years riding a bike in the area...that was bad enough.

[Whitewagon]

The UK, and other governments, have taken far to long to come to this conclusion. Evidence of localised diesel pollution has been out there for some time and they have been dragging their feet over it. I suspect that the major European car manufacturers will lobby the government and get concessions on the implementation time but it will hopefully put an end to this problem. If you have a diesel engined car best get rid soon before the value plummets.

[Chris Dance]

Transport London have stopped exemption of the congestion charge for the Prius from next year. (It is not a complete exemption it is only £10 per year at present).

As I am selling my Prius Gen 3 I cannot pass on my current congestion exemption to the new owner.

The new 2014 Prius I am buying does not qualify for the exemption from the congestion charge.

The diesel lorries and buses in our area are the worst offenders for pollution. I have a neighbour who would like to buy a Toyota Auris Sport but he states he wants it to be diesel powered. His reason for this daft statement is a modern diesel powered car is the most economical. His current powered diesel Vauxhall does not return as good MPG as my Prius. It is hard to convince lovers of stinking deisel powered cars to change to Hybrids or conventional petrol cars. Perhaps the proposed new congestion levy on diesel powered vehicles in London may convince a few that it is time to change!!

One chap I know refers to Hybrid cars as glorified "milk floats".

[PeteB]

Most vehicles in London are there on business. Vans, delivery vehicles, buses, taxis...

... I wouldn't drive in London for all the tea in China...spent enough years riding a bike in the area...that was bad enough.

I wonder if it's fair to say "most" - I used to drive in London a lot (including one year as a [Prius] minicab driver!) and I would say an awful lot of private cars there are diesel (ok, many may be company cars, but most would be hit by this new charge when it comes in).

An awful lot of Chelsea Tractors were oil burners. At least the majority of black cabs no longer exhale the tons of visible soot they used to.

I surprise many people by saying driving the Prius in London as a minicab was the most stress free job I ever had (even now I've retired life isn't exactly stress free) but I'm the opposite to you - I love riding my bike and am getting out on it more now (done 2 journeys already today), BUT - I wouldn't ride one in London for all the ...

I think this charge is just the tip of the iceberg - the article says other big cities are looking at this too. But I also think there will be other tax changes to come like massive hikes on the tax disc. I believe regional and national governments realise this is a major emergency, but are trying to find ways of dealing with it that minimise the political fallout. Good luck on that one!

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Transport London have stopped exemption of the congestion charge for the Prius from next year. (It is not a complete exemption it is only £10 per year at present).

As I am selling my Prius Gen 3 I cannot pass on my current congestion exemption to the new owner.

The new 2014 Prius I am buying does not qualify for the exemption from the congestion charge.

The diesel lorries and buses in our area are the worst offenders for pollution. I have a neighbour who would like to buy a Toyota Auris Sport but he states he wants it to be diesel powered. His reason for this daft statement is a modern diesel powered car is the most economical. His current powered diesel Vauxhall does not return as good MPG as my Prius. It is hard to convince lovers of stinking deisel powered cars to change to Hybrids or conventional petrol cars. Perhaps the proposed new congestion levy on diesel powered vehicles in London may convince a few that it is time to change!!

One chap I know refers to Hybrid cars as glorified "milk floats".

Need to get yourself a PIP, they're still exempt under the new exemption ratings I believe.

[puckdrop]

I wonder if anyone has tried using a dyson on a couple of meters of road to see just how much soot/dust/particles/££'s it would pick up lol.

No use reducing emissions if the stuff still lingers anyway !

[PeteB]

... Need to get yourself a PIP, they're still exempt under the new exemption ratings I believe.

That was my view when I got the Gen 3 Prius (but by no means a major reason). They had recently dropped the threshold to 100gm/km CO2 (which ruled out my Gen 1 & 2 Prius) - I didn't expect them to raise the bar again quite so much and quite so soon, so currently only electric cars and a very few plug in Hybrids qualify - how quickly will they raise the bar again?

At least my exemption will remain valid as long as I continue to own the car until June 2016, with no more annual registration fees.

[korat102]

Call me a cynic if you like but I think, as soon as the tax take drops, they'll move the goalposts again.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Most vehicles in London are there on business. Vans, delivery vehicles, buses, taxis. This will just do what every tax does; increase costs for customers as prices for everything goes up to compensate. While some people will probably be happy at this, to me it just looks like another money grab exercise using emissions as an excuse (there's always one they can use whenever they need more money). Not that it bothers me, I wouldn't drive in London for all the tea in China...spent enough years riding a bike in the area...that was bad enough.

Don't worry about it too much. I'm sure all those dodgy Russian billionaires can afford a few extra £'s on their Harrods delivery. What has happened to London these days?

Seriously, it comes into force in 2020 and Euro 6 vehicles are exempt as they are as clean as petrol. Euro 6 comes into force now for brand new models and all 2015 vehicles. That means by 2020 these vehicles will be 5 years old and thus easily affordable to Tescos, Asda, Top Shop etc and unlikely to push up bills as you indicate. Such larger organisations will replace a truck at about 5 years old already. And if the air quality is better, you might get more tourists come to buy from the shops?

It just means that older diesel vehicles (all diesels on the road now bar a handful of Euro6 sold in the last few months) will now be exempt.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I wonder if anyone has tried using a dyson on a couple of meters of road to see just how much soot/dust/particles/££'s it would pick up lol.

No use reducing emissions if the stuff still lingers anyway !

Easier way. Just look at your vehicles cabin filter after 12 months. Mine is black and I live in a lower pollution area.

The soot pollution will just wash away after a few storms. The NOx pollution will clear in a similar way. You may still have some heavy metals on the street side though.

[IanIanIanIan]

I have been told there are now a number of companies collecting the mud from road drains to recover the heavy metals, mostly Platinum and Paladium, washed in from road exhausts, there is enough to make it economical.

We need to find a use for Carbon particles. Wasn't there an inititive from Volvo to coat their radiators with a catalyst to break down 'pollution' supposedly the air was cleaner after the car had passed?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17673280

[korat102]

We need to find a use for Carbon particles. Wasn't there an inititive from Volvo to coat their radiators with a catalyst to break down 'pollution' supposedly the air was cleaner after the car had passed?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17673280

Well, the modern vehicles with a particulate filter burn off the carbon collected. What gets through is a minuscule amount, assuming the systems are all working properly. The inside of my Verso's tailpipe is clean, I can rub my finger on it, all around, and collect nothing. Try that with your average diesel bus...which will, presumably, be exempt from all this taxation, etc.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I have been told there are now a number of companies collecting the mud from road drains to recover the heavy metals, mostly Platinum and Paladium, washed in from road exhausts, there is enough to make it economical.

We need to find a use for Carbon particles. Wasn't there an inititive from Volvo to coat their radiators with a catalyst to break down 'pollution' supposedly the air was cleaner after the car had passed?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17673280

I'd heard that too. If it turns out to be viable, wait for your council to suddenly start sweeping the road gutters and unplugging the drains about 5 times a month instead of the once every 3 or 4 years :)

[RK123456]

Drive in London, never, I thought the public transport system there was so good that a car wasn't necessary.

I visit London twice a year, once on business when I either take the train or drive to High Barnet and take the tube. Once in November, take the train, if booked well in advance, 2 x return tickets for a 130 mile journey costs me £40, a no brainer.

On the subject of cleaning up London's air, until most ofour electricity is generated by Nuclear, hydro, solar or wind power, all that is happening is that the cars driven in London will be emission free but the emissions will be produced at a power station away from London.

[Uncle Buck]

I agree that soot-free city centres are a great thing, but for many of us a diesel is still the only practical choice. I don't commute in big cities anyway, but if I lived in London I'd just use public transport.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

But it appears by the significantly poor air quality caused and proven to be caused by diesel, that many people do indeed take diesel cars into the capital.

There again. If nobody does use diesel in the cities (it's not just London), then there's no problem paying an extra £10.

With regard to burning coal and the pollution from power plants. Yes there is pollution but it generally goes up into the air and disperses to a more acceptable level, rather than be blasted 5 feet away from pedestrians, cyclists, children or other drivers. It also has not much to do with the soot from the exhaust, rather than the NOx which reacts somehow with sunlight to cause smog. Nitrogen dioxide is toxic, not unpleasant or irritating (though it is those too), but toxic. It kills.

And if you're up for it, I have a test for you. I'll park my running Prius in a small garage and you park your running diesel in a similar sized garage. Which car would you want to stand next to for an hour? The Prius or the diesel? And why?

[Red Yaris 54]

Drive in London, never, I thought the public transport system there was so good that a car wasn't necessary.

I visit London twice a year, once on business when I either take the train or drive to High Barnet and take the tube. Once in November, take the train, if booked well in advance, 2 x return tickets for a 130 mile journey costs me £40, a no brainer.

On the subject of cleaning up London's air, until most ofour electricity is generated by Nuclear, hydro, solar or wind power, all that is happening is that the cars driven in London will be emission free but the emissions will be produced at a power station away from London.

Getting a space in High Barnet Tube Station car park is becoming increasingly difficult....The last two occasions I have had to drive along to Cockfosters tube to park which means using the Picadilly line rather than the more convenient Northern line

[Uncle Buck]

But it appears by the significantly poor air quality caused and proven to be caused by diesel, that many people do indeed take diesel cars into the capital.

There again. If nobody does use diesel in the cities (it's not just London), then there's no problem paying an extra £10.

With regard to burning coal and the pollution from power plants. Yes there is pollution but it generally goes up into the air and disperses to a more acceptable level, rather than be blasted 5 feet away from pedestrians, cyclists, children or other drivers. It also has not much to do with the soot from the exhaust, rather than the NOx which reacts somehow with sunlight to cause smog. Nitrogen dioxide is toxic, not unpleasant or irritating (though it is those too), but toxic. It kills.

And if you're up for it, I have a test for you. I'll park my running Prius in a small garage and you park your running diesel in a similar sized garage. Which car would you want to stand next to for an hour? The Prius or the diesel? And why?

I don't think anyone here is arguing that a diesel is cleaner than a hybrid - that's a no brainer !