Weird Prius Gen 3 Problems - Please Help

[rf4c]

Hi everybody and best wishes from Dublin.
I'm hoping I can get some help and advice regarding a problem with my Prius.
First the background: I live in Dublin, and wanted to purchase a used Prius. Nothing on the Irish websites were suitable, so I found an excellent one in Belfast, which I purchased and imported to Southern Ireland.
The car is a 2009 Prius Gen3. The car was purchased under the Toyota Assured Used Car Scheme, complete with One year warranty. For 5 months the car was perfect, and then a problem arose, which I'll detail below.
Before doing so, I feel the need to comment about how I was treated by Toyota UK. When the problem arose, I contacted the dealer in Belfast, who said "not our problem, contact Toyota"
I contacted Toyota UK, who said "not our problem, you took the car out of the UK, invaliating the warranty". I explained to Toyota and the dealer that I was assured by the salesman that the warranty was good for southern Ireland, to which the response was "he should not have told you that, we fired him!"
EU law says I'm right, but Toyota will not budge! Despite telling them that the reason I purchased the car was to attend hospital three times weekly for medical treatment, they remain unmoved.
Sorry guys, but I just needed to vent that!

Now the problem: When I start the car (foot on the brake and press POWER) ALL the lights come on, and stay on, and the gear selector will not respond. When I go to the next step into accessory mode, everything works! In addition the GPS system jumps to a random place and is useless for navigation. Also, the heater / AC delivers no heat from the vents, even though the fan and temperature selector are working. Randomly, I get into the car and it just starts normally! (although GPS and heater remains a problem).
I recently purchased an iCarsoft OBDII scanner. Not sure if I'm using it properly, but it does not show any error codes. Any clue as to what to do would be very gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks in advance and kind wishes to all
Jim

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just a comment re the warranty.

The only EU legislation that I'm aware of that covers car warranties, is Block Exemption.

Block Exemption allows owners to have their car serviced by any independent VAT-registered garage during the new car warranty period. This legislation only applies to the new car warranty. In Toyota GB's case, (from 1st June 2010) the new car warranty is 5 years/100,000 miles and, for the rest of Europe including Eire, Toyota Europe retained the 3 year/100,000km new car warranty.

As far as I am aware there is no other EU legislation that covers either used car warranty programmes or extended warranties. Companies offering used car warranties or extended warranties are free to state within the warranty terms and conditions where the vehicle should be serviced (ie at a franchised dealer), and also to set territorial limits for those warranties.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

First of all the 2009 and early 2010 UK gen3 Prius only got a 3 year/60,000 mile warranty apart from the hybrid system which was 5 year/60,000 miles.

http://www.toyota.co.uk/insurance-and-warranty/toyota-warranty

So chances are you are out of the warranty even if it did transfer from one country to the other under possible EU legislation.

Regarding your fault. Chances are your 12 volt Battery is at the end of its days. This is a big weak point in all Toyota hybrids and a common reason for weird, wonderful and spurious error messages.

There should be a number of threads in this forum on 12v errors and how to check its condition. The 12v can die if it has been left to run down completely (like being sat on a dealers lot for 3 months?). An easy way to check your 12v if you don't have a multi-meter is to switch the car into ACC mode (NOT into Ready) and then wind all windows down and back up at once. If they go painfully slowly and the interior light goes dull or out, then your 12v is shot and you should get a new one ASAP. If you now put the car into Ready and try it again they should zoom up and down as normal.

A new 12v is about £95 fully fitted and are a weird design and whilst alternatives can be found, you might want to get one from Toyota.

It might be something else but the 12v is a usual candidate for failing around 5 years and/or 70/80k miles or if it has been allowed to drain fully more than a couple of times. Also BE VERY CAREFUL if you jump start the car as ANY error can fry your electrics. Follow the instructions in the manual very carefully. Driving a Prius with a failing 12v can cause expensive damage to the inverter and charging systems and it's best to get it sorted much sooner than later.

The Prius is a computer with a car attached, rather than the other way round.

Let us all know how you get on. PS, don't wind the windows down if it's raining incase your 12v is toast and you can't get them back up again. Have a backup plan in case. A multimeter is a better bet if you have one.

[JSHarris]

The 12V Battery failed on my Gen 3 just after the warranty ran out, and gave a multitude of very weird symptoms before it finally died. I plugged the scangauge in and couldn't find any fault codes, and was fooled into the thinking the 12V Battery was OK because the scangauge only powers up after the 12V charger has powered up in the car. A multimeter on the 12V Battery eventually showed the cause to be an unstable 12V supply initially, because the battery was duff.

My advice is to change it as soon as it starts playing up like this. I didn't, but charged it a couple of times (via the special connector under the bonnet) and one morning at around 5am the alarms went off, and the remote wouldn't work, so I spent a frantic five minutes trying to get into the car with the emergency key, opening the bonnet and getting a charger hooked up so I could get enough charge in the 12V battery to allow the alarm to be killed!

[rf4c]

Many many thanks guys!

Come to think of it, I've seen some signs of Battery deterioration so I'll get a Battery replacement for starters.

I'll see how that affects things and report back.

On the issue of the warranty, I'm open to correction. I've had the car since February and there's not much left on the warranty even if I pursued it. There's enough fighting going on in the world without me adding to it!

I'm just happy to restore an otherwise beautiful car to normal again!

Thanks once again guys, I appreciate all the time and trouble given.

I'll report back in due course

Kindest wishes

Jim

[Devon Aygo]

Many many thanks guys!

Come to think of it, I've seen some signs of battery deterioration so I'll get a battery replacement for starters.

I'll see how that affects things and report back.

On the issue of the warranty, I'm open to correction. I've had the car since February and there's not much left on the warranty even if I pursued it. There's enough fighting going on in the world without me adding to it!

I'm just happy to restore an otherwise beautiful car to normal again!

Thanks once again guys, I appreciate all the time and trouble given.

I'll report back in due course

Kindest wishes

Jim

Just dealing with the warranty side of things:

You purchased a used car from a Toyota dealer and not Toyota GB, all legal obligations surrounding that purchase, sales of goods act ( NI may have variations compared to England ) , warranties etc are on the supplying dealer period and not Toyota, but this will only apply in the UK.

Being a 2009 car the 3 year manufacturers warranty has expired so that no longer applies and the 5 year Hybrid cover is soon to expire.

You most likely have a Toyota approved used warranty for 12 months but this will only be valid in the UK and not Ireland if your supplying dealer said there would be no issues they misled you. If you have a used warranty from a source other than Toyota there may be allowances for export so long as the warranty supplier operates in that territory if they don't then the warranty will not apply.

Within the EU the standard manufacturers warranty is 3 years/60,000 miles, individual territories may choose to offer longer cover but this will only apply to cars sold within that territory it does not transfer to other territories at all, so in your case even the 5 year Hybrid cover ( offered by Toyota GB ) will not apply outside the UK. As an example if you purchased a brand new Aygo with 5 years warranty in the UK today and moved it to France then you immediately loose the extra 2 years offered by Toyota GB and the standard EU 3 year warranty applies, take the car outside the EU and all warranty is forfeit and would only apply if the car was returned back to the EU/UK.

If you take the car back to Belfast or UK then the cover your dealer provided would apply again so long as all the terms and conditions of the warranty have been followed, but so long as the car stays outside the UK there is nothing that can be done.

[rf4c]

Yes, you're right.

The warranty is the Toyota approved used warranty.

I can now accept that the warranty does not export with the car.

I guess I was just annoyed that I specifically asked about this when buying the car, and the salesman assured me it would.

Such is life!

Many thanks for clarifying!

kind wishes

Jim

[Chippy01]

Whereabouts in Belfast did you buy the car? Was the one year warranty from Toyota UK or the selling garage? Either way, the one year warranty should rest with the selling garage, surely?

On a side note, a friend of mine has two UK imported Lexus 430s in Bray, which he bought privately, and gets looked after very well in Charles Hurst Lexus in Belfast. They even held up a warranty issue a few years back when he had a problem with the air-con on one of the cars.

My present Gen III Prius (and my previous Gen II) is a UK import. I bought my present car from Kenilworth Motors in Dublin, and when I brought it home I immediately took it into Boggans Toyota in Gorey (they looked after my Gen II). They entered the chassis number into their computers and it's history popped up onto the screen, including the date of import into Ireland, the importer, etc, etc.

Since I've had it (about 18 months now), I've had a couple of updates and recalls done all FOC by Boggans.

I had no need to go back to Kenilworth as the car has been operating as it should, but that's academic now as their 12 month warranty has expired.

Did you get the 12v Battery replaced yet, and did it cure your 'ills'?

[rf4c]

Hi Phil,

I originally found the car on the Toyota UK website,

doing a search for a Prius under their Assured Used Car scheme.

I read all the benefits and figured their cars must be 'as new'

if the manufacturer was endorsing them.

The site brought me to Charles Hurst Toyota Dundonald for the car I had chosen.

I contacted the dealer and asked about warranties etc. as I would be exporting

to Southern Ireland.

The salesman told me that there would be a dealer warranty of 3 months, but I

also had the benefit of the Toyota Assured Used car waranty, which he said would

travel south with the car.

To be fair to Charles Hurst, when I went to pay for and collect the car,they

were very welcoming and helpful and even threw in a half tank of fuel to

get me home.

The car performed perfectly for the three months, but when problems arose,

everybody dived for cover!

I began by contacting Toyota Ireland,asking how I should go about invoking the Toyota warranty, and their treatment was shameful.

I got a single reply from them stating that it was not an issue for Toyota, and I should contact the dealer. I replied, explaining the situation, but every email was ignored.

I then contacted Charles Hurst, who said that their 3 month warranty was expired and I should 'seek Toyota UK advice' on their warranty.

I contacted Toyota UK who said I had invalidated their warranty by exporting the car.

When I explained the terms under which I bought the car, they said it wasn't their problem, the dealer should not have made this promise, and I was advised to contact the dealer.

When I contacted Charles Hurst again, they said the salesman was new in the job and should not have made this promise.

I contected the European Consumer Affairs Office who (verbally) assured me that Toyota UK were obliged to uphold the warranty.

In fairness to Toyota, I have not been able to find a definitive confirmation of this from any authority.

Having found out that the problem is likely to be the 12V Battery ( which would not be covered anyway) I decided to let things lie. Life is too short to fight for pointless principles!

Having said all this, I still have faith in Toyota as a product.

LATEST UPDATE: Charles Hurst Dundonald have made a payment of £200 to me in redress for the

bad advice of their salesman. This is a very honourable response from them, so I'll be sending friend and family there in the future.

I haven't had the Battery replaced yet, (I suffer from a lung disease that can disable me for days on end) so hopefully next week, I'll be breathing again, and finally get the new Battery!

I'll report back on the outcome.

Kindes wishes to everybody!

Jim

[Chippy01]

Janey-Mack! You were certainly given the run-around Jim!!

What surprises me is that you only got a 3 month warranty from Hursts on a '09. I got 12 months on my '09 from Kenilworth.

But they have sorta redeemed themselves with the £200, fair play to them indeed. That'll cover the Battery replacement with some change. It's a pity they never took the reins on this issue at the outset, as they could have had it sorted for less than £200 to themselves, and a lot less hassle to yourself.

Make friends with your local Toyota service manager, get your Gen III on their system and get whatever updates and recalls done as well now.

[horis]

Seems to me, if I've understood your Prius fault, that a check on the break pedal switch is in order. The random switch on is like when you forget to depress the brake pedal and just see ALL the dash lights come on. If the switch is dodgy this might account for it.

[rf4c]

Hi Neil

That's an excellent point that I never thought of.

I often wondered why pressing the brake pedal caused the problem, but pressing it into accessory mode, made thing work!

When I get 'round to the dealer for the Battery change, I'll make a point to mention your idea and have them check the brake switch as well.

Many thanks again for the idea!

I'll report back when the work is done.

kindest wishes

Jim

[Grumpy Cabbie]

12 volt Battery is top of the list but there have been reports on Priuschat of some brake pedal switches going out of aline. I'm sure it was a Toyota Service Bulletin issue and only applied to the very early gen3's. There were quite a few reports years back but nothing reported since.

Has the car got a full Toyota service history? If it has they should have done this bulletin, if not, then chances are it hasn't been done. That's assuming my memory serves me correct and that this was a service bulletin.

But the 12v does give more start up error messages when it's failing and the ops car ticks the boxes for this due at least to its age. Does anyone from a dealer know about the brake pedal issues?

[barrycoll]

My last (and I MEAN LAST ) Golf, had at least 4 new brake light switches when still very new. Each time the switch went U/S the dash lights all went bonkers, with messages telling me to get to a Blonde, Blue Eyed German mechanic immediately

[rf4c]

Hi guys,

Just reporting back on the 'weird' problems.

I had the 12V Battery replaced with my Toyota dealer.

(The reason we call this country the "Rip-off Republic: 265 Euros /£208 !!!)

The starting problems have gone away as have all the warning lights - good result!

The heater is no longer cold, but is now only lukewarm!

The GPS is still jumping around. I've just come back from a 20 mile round trip.

On the 10 miles out, I set the GPS to my location and it behaved perfectly.

I left the car for about an hour and driving home, it jumped out of position by

about 5 miles!

Thanks so much to everybody for improving things for me!

Any thoughts on the remaining issues very gratefully accepted!

Kind wishes to all

Jim

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Glad the starting issues are resolved.

Double check the coolant is topped up on the left hand side of the engine bay. Wonder if it needs bleeding through. Have you tried turning the heat up to max?

You might want to give the car a good long run too. Despite the new 12v being new, it's probably been sat on a shelf for six month and could do with topping up. The Prius takes a little longer to top up a 12v, so a good 30 mile run should help.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hi guys,

Just reporting back on the 'weird' problems.

The GPS is still jumping around. I've just come back from a 20 mile round trip.

On the 10 miles out, I set the GPS to my location and it behaved perfectly.

I left the car for about an hour and driving home, it jumped out of position by

about 5 miles!

Just been looking into this and I've heard you can recalibrate the satnav settings. As I have the cheap t3 version I don't have satnav and thus haven't checked this myself but apparently you go into the following settings;

SETUP... NAV....DETAILED NAV SETTING MENU

Worth a look if nothing else.

[rf4c]

Hi Guys,

thanks again for all the time you've given to me, It's much appreciated.

On the coolant issue, I found the level to be a bit low but not much.

I didn't top up yet because the manual says not to use plain water,

The coolant specification in the manual is very specific, so I'm going to hunt down a coolant that meets the spec. (Don't know how easy this is yet!)

If that doesn't sort the heater, I thought I'd try this, which I found online:

How to 'Burp' a Toyota Coolant System | eHow UK

On the subject of the GPS, I went to the setup menu you suggested, and recalibrated my position, but it jumped again.

I went into the hidden menu showing faults, etc and found this (picture attached).

If I'm reading it correctly, I'm not getting a signal. Any ideas where I go from here!

I really want to avoid the dealer as I simply can't afford it. (After paying £208 for a 12V Battery, I'm scared about bringing anything more complicated to the dealer!)

Thanks once again guys

kind wishes

Jim

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Do you have a standard aerial or is it an aftermarket or shark fin type? The standard is about 8 inches tall with what looks like wire wrapped around it, all covered in plastic.

The fm reception in an early gen3 is poor but is yours poor or really really poor? Wondering if someones been playing about back there. Or has someone had the satnav unit out of the car and stuffed it back in pulling the aerial out in the process.

[rf4c]

Hi again!

It's the standard 'wire wrapped' one.

I have to admit the reception is very bad on my street. Even mobile phones drop out constantly.

I took the car a few miles away where I knew the signal was good, but got the same 'no signal' result.

I bought the car second hand from a Toyota dealer last February and it was perfect. It was like that until I left in into the dealer for the recall software upgrade. I can't be sure, but I think problems started some time later (but strangely, not immediately after!).

That's the only time the car has been out of my sight, and I can't imagine the software upgrade involved pulling bits out of the car.

I went to EManualOnline.com and bought the service manual (£9.99)

I'm going to try searching that for clues. Don't know where to go from here!!

Thanks again guys!

kind wishes

Jim

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Am I reading between those lines correctly?

It's a strange issue and one I've not come across in 5 years on the forums. Consider asking on the priuschat forum. Normally this UK forum will suffice but with weird errors there's usually someone on there who has come across it. There are one or two members who know the car inside out in ways nobody should.

[kithmo]

Try !Removed! the aerial off and wire brushing the threads, they get a bit oxidised sometimes. The base that the aerial screws into is actually an amplifier, this could be faulty.

[Joseph D]

I thought that the GPS had its own aerial that lived up under the dash behind the MDF and below the windscreen. Is it possible that it was removed in your service and was not re-connected properly and has now fallen out?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Isn't that just the gen2?

[johalareewi]

The aerial on top of the gen3 prius is just the FM aerial - nothing to do with GPS.

There will be a separate GPS aerial for that.

The screenshot suggests that the GPS aerial isn't working (or not there).

However, the past couple of days, GPS reception in my area has not been good but it does manage to find a few sats rather than none at all.