08 3Cylinder Yaris Tappet /valve Lifter Noise.when Cold .

[spuddy1]

Hi im new on here and wondered if anyone can help.Ive had a 2008 3cylinder yaris from new which I have always regularly serviced and changed the oil .Always used toyata oil and filters and never hammered the engine.Over the last few months sounds like a tappet/valve lifter sound coming from engine when cold much worse when very cold and lasts for about ten minutes until the car warms up.The car has done 70,000 miles with only a new water pump to mention .The problem is I keep getting conflicting reports about the 3cylinders not being a good engine and this is wear n tear on the valves and possible timeing chain.Im also told its expensive to investigate and put right .The engine has also started to burn a little oil around 1ltr per thousand miles never a good sign in my book .I have owned a few Toyotas over the years and never had an engine problem always thought they ran for ever so to be honest if its the case that the yaris 3cylinders are not that great have to say im surprised with it being a Toyota.Hope someone out their can identify the problem as im getting a different story off every garage I speak too .

Regards Spuddy

[CPN]

You say "getting a different story off every garage I speak to" which begs the question, did any of those include an opinion from a Toyota main dealer?

[spuddy1]

Hi ive been to two Toyota main agents.Both will not give any idea of what the problem is before charging me £70 to lift the bonnet .Its very frustrating because im pretty sure they have a fair idea what the problem is lets face it they work on 3cylinder yaris every day .Think I may have to bight the bullet and pay for there advice ?

[CPN]

To be honest with you Simon, I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I have never experienced this "pay us £70 up front before we even touch it" from ANY Toyota (and other) Main Dealers that I have ever dealt with (both in Scotland and England) and that is probably because I have only ever bought cars new from them and have usually developed a longer term relationship with them in each case. I have never been asked to "pay up front" to any main dealer before looking at the vehicle in over 40 years of motoring!

My own approach would be to ask them to take the car in, analyse the problem and provide you with a written quote before they commence work. Why would they need money up front? They'd have your car at that point wouldn't they?

I've already had this argument with a friend who thinks that "all main dealers are shysters" (without exception) and my contrary view about back street and none franchised garages, especially in this high tech era of motoring, is that I wouldn't trust one of them as far as I can throw them!

I could bore you with a long story of a friend's experience recently of buying a "pup" from a back street dealer, trying to get it repaired at what he thought was the main dealer (but wasn't for that brand), they couldn't fix it so he bought a car for £700 privately at the side of the road (because he needed it) before eventually "biting the bullet" and paying a decent amount of money for a decent low mileage 3 year old car but losing £3000 overall and a lot of heartache in the process! (plus the hassle of getting rid of two heaps...) Suffice to say, he's changed his tune in regard to main dealers in the whole process...

[spuddy1]

Hi Colin ive tried that approach Toyota say they have to spend time on the car to make a correct diagnosis hence the 70 pounds bill.To be honest I would be happy to have the problem fixed by them rather than a garage that didn't know the car .Its just the fact of the unwillingness they have of telling me what the problem is before charging me for their advice .Joined this site in the hope that someone on here could tell me what the problem is and how much its going to cost and whether its worth doing on a 70,000 k mileage 3cylinder before I jump in Like I said i keep getting told they are not great engines and are only good upto around 70/100 k.

Thanks for your advice Colin hopefully somebody else out their may know what the problem is .

Regards Simon .

[MikeSh]

... and whether its worth doing on a 70,000 k mileage 3cylinder before I jump in Like I said i keep getting told they are not great engines and are only good upto around 70/100 k.

IF that last part is true then it might be worth considering getting a recon engine fitted rather than throwing money at fixing one bit of the old one.

I assume this engine is the same as that in the Aygo / 106 / C1, so might be worth having a trawl of those fora for your symptoms.

[Catlover]

You say you had the car from new. Typically have you been doing long journeys, or short journeys?

When the car is serviced what engine oil is put in? Is it what Toyota recomend?

Have you been over to the Aygo part of this site and looked for engine problems? I just have and scanned a few pages of queries but didnt see anything to wrong with engines - but try looking yourself.

This engine is fitted into Peugoet 106 and Citroen C1 - have you heard any problems with those engines?

[spuddy1]

Hi Joe the car has never done stop start journeys and ive always used the correct Toyota oil .I had the car listened too today but the car was warm so no tappet noise .I chatted to a trusted old school mechanic who ive used for years He told me the 3cylinder corsa is the engine which gives the problems and they don't have problems with the 3cylinder Toyotas other than clutch replacement .He said its a valve lifter sticking until the oil pressure builds up and shouldn't cause any problems hes known them to do this for thousands of miles and not to worry .He recommended some stp oil treatment to just thicken the oil so came away more positive ?

[Devon Aygo]

Hi Joe the car has never done stop start journeys and ive always used the correct Toyota oil .I had the car listened too today but the car was warm so no tappet noise .I chatted to a trusted old school mechanic who ive used for years He told me the 3cylinder corsa is the engine which gives the problems and they don't have problems with the 3cylinder Toyotas other than clutch replacement .He said its a valve lifter sticking until the oil pressure builds up and shouldn't cause any problems hes known them to do this for thousands of miles and not to worry .He recommended some stp oil treatment to just thicken the oil so came away more positive ?

You most definitely do not want to add something which thickens the oil, this will reduce oil flow into the hydraulic valve lifters increasing wear ( will also increase cold start wear and reduce fuel economy & can caused performance issues with the VVTi controller ) do not use an oil thicker than 5W30, if the lifter is sticking something like this will far more beneficial: http://www.wynns.uk.com/Product.aspx?p=76864&g=GRP_CONS_OIL

If the additive does not fix then consider having the valve clearances measured and re-shimmed and replacing the valve lifters as the issue is only going to get worse.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

My own approach would be to ask them to take the car in, analyse the problem and provide you with a written quote before they commence work. Why would they need money up front? They'd have your car at that point wouldn't they?

Time and knowledge is money unfortunately, and as such diagnostics is rarely FOC at most main dealerships.

At least its cheaper (just) than the £90 for an hours diagnostics that Fiat main dealers charge.

[CPN]

I don't expect it to be FOC but I don't expect to be asked for it "up front" either. I guess that would very much depend on the relationship you've developed (or not) with your main dealer though....

[Catlover]

I agree with Devon Aygo - dont put anything that thickens the oil.

I would probably drop the engine oil, use some flushing oil which should get into all the oil channels and clean them out (maybe some foreign matter blocking an oil way to the cams etc, then fresh oil BUT making sure the correct grade oil for the engine is poured in. It maybe your mechanic (who ever) has simply pored what he commonly uses and that may be too thick.

Or you can get a flush additive that you pour into your engine and run for the last 50 miles or so before the engine oil is changed. Same purpose, to get clogged up oilways cleared.

Are you sure the Toyota gargae actually asked for payment up front or were they just advising you that they charge £70 per hour even for "just listening" to the engine. I was at my "local" Toyota dealer on Monday for a recall check, I said can you take a look at my radio (its pants) and I was "warned" at that point that they charge £95 per hour. Of course I then have a choice of saying "thats ok" or "forget it, I am not paying that". Much better then them saying nothing, they do the job (at my request), then present me a bill for £95 (hours work). Ouch!

[spuddy1]

Ok thanks guys.Ive decided to do an oil change and give the Wynns Valve Lifter Treatment ago .Hope this works will keep you posted .

Regards Simon .

[Madasafish]

Make sure you use a Toyota filter. Failed non return valves on non standard filters can starve engine of oil on startup giving --- tappet rattle.

[spuddy1]

Is it ok to use 5/40 fully synthetic oil instead of 5/30 as ive picked this up by mistake ?

[Mike169]

Hi Simon.

The higher the number the thicker the oil. Ideally you need to thin your oil down rather than thicken it hence why people have said do not use any oil thickening additives. I very much suggest you take the 5/40 oil back and change it for the correct grade....yes you could put it in your engine but it will only makes it fail prematurely.

Regards Mike.

[spuddy1]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your advice I will take it back and get the correct 5/30 grade .

Regards Simon .

[andr3iu]

Any updates ? I experience a similar noise during winter for 5-10 minutes....

[Mike169]

If the noise goes away after a few minutes running it suggests the oil in the engine is too thick because as it warms up it gets thinner. You will probably find 2 grades of oil are recommended for this engine as as a test i suggest you change your oil to the one with the lowest numbers which could be something like 0/15W. It may possibly burn more oil on this thinner grade but should stop the noisey engine whilst warming up.

Regards.

[andr3iu]

Thanks. The truth is that I used a generic 5W30 non-FE for the last 2 years (which, I guess, is slightly thicker). Recently I changed back to the original 5W30 FE Toyota .

Waiting for the winter that is coming to notice any change in behavior....