Engine Smoke

[DBPC900]

Hi Gentlemen,

In the last couple of weeks my car, a 2.2 T180 Tourer has twice belched for several seconds copious amounts of predominately white smoke and on the first occasion some blue stuff too. It happened a few miles from home today, quite worryingly and fairly dramatic. Well at least to the poor fellow following too close behind me. I'm now thinking about a smoke generator fitted as standard just to deter tailgaters.

Under warranty at 89k the engine was changed by Toyota 27k ago because of a claim by toyota, of an incorrectly drilled block when manufactured. I think porous was the word they were looking for, but who cares I got a new engine. The car runs very well at low and motorway speeds and is extremely sprightly and I don't need lead feet. There are no dashboard lights and the car on a new tank full of the posh Shell diesel is returning between 48 and 52 MPG. I put the expensive stuff in every fourth tank. Since the last service less than six months ago the car has covered 7k. I checked the oil last about ten days ago at the level was abot 30% below full. Having rechecked again a few moments ago the oil now appears to be at 70% below. The engine temperature is normal and apart from when the smoke appeared there are no nasty smells. There are no ominous engine rattles either. I think I am right in assuming that when the engine was changed by toyota the lesser ancilliaries probably were not.

There is a noisy vibration under the bonnet at low revs or on gear changes at low speeds, but I think this is something different and attributable to a loose air box, another gem gleaned from these pages. I also read another post today about a smokey engine which might be caused by a faulty PCV Vavle.

Tomorrow the oil will be changed and the PCV valve replaced. A neat trick whilst having all my arms, legs and fingers crossed.

Or, am I clutching at straws, is this indicative of a bigger, more expensive issue? I was beggining to think this car is a keeper, it really is a great drive, hopefully it will continue to be. What's the consensus chaps, your help would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Paul

[Heidfirst]

How old is your car?

When (time) was the engine changed? The replacement should have had a 1 year warranty afaik.

The white smoke could just be a DPF regen but the fact that it is going through oil is potentially worrying (hopefully it could just be a seal or similar).

[DBPC900]

A 2008 vehicle, the new engine is out of warranty.

What is DPF Regen?

Thanks for the reply.

[Devon Aygo]

DPF is a diesel particulate filter, its fitted in your exhaust and captures diesel combustion particles, once it fills the car adds diesel fuel into the filter to burn off the captured particles ( called a regeneration ) on younger cars the regen usually goes unnoticed however as the filter ages its abilities lessen and the car has to regen more often, sometimes the regen can create quite a bit of smoke especially if the filter was heavily blocked. If the random smoking continues or worsens there is a a software update from Toyota that can help otherwise it may be a symptom of a failing filter which may require a replacement.

One significant thing to note is your car requires a specific grade of oil which has been produced to reduce soot/particulate build up in the engine, your car requires either a:

0W30 C2 oil or

5W30 C2 oil

the 0W30 is more expensive but is better for fuel economy and is Toyota's preferred grade however 5W30 is fine the most important bit is the C2 specification which denotes the oil is a low ash content oil correct for cars fitted with a DPF

[Heidfirst]

a DPF regeneration http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

The T180 uses a 5th injector to squirt diesel into the catalyst.

[Konrad C]

Just to add to the above, DPF regeneration in some cars needs to be driven at constant higher speeds, 50+ mph and higher rpm, which means being in 5th or 4th gear. This may need 20 minutes or more, depending how full the DPF is.

If you have the handbook, check see if DPF and regeneration is mentioned. In the past, this subject has been mentioned in the media, as owners bought diesel cars, did only local stop/start driving, and had issues. The owners like yourself was unaware of DPF and the need to take the car on a fast drive. Some owners don't see why they should drive fast to clear a filter and some changed their cars to petrol.

I had to post a response to give you the full picture about DPF and how to treat car fitted with them. Newer cars 'should' be more tolerant.

[DBPC900]

Thanks for the info.

[fastbob72]

I've no experience in DPF/DPD regeneration in cars but plenty with trucks. What I found was that if you weren't aware of what it means, what it's doing and why then you probably by paying little attention to the processes it was. going through could easily make matters quicly much worse.

DPD systems require heat in the exhaust to burn off the soot and normally when it's around time to regenerate it either waits until. it's hot enough or it sprays fuel in the exhaust to rapidly increase the heat until it's hot enough to gon hrough the regeneration cycle.

As I said I can only talk about my experience with trucks but a symbol, basically like a puff of smoke lights up green to let you know it's. regenerating. So long as you never turned the engine off during a regen cycle it should be fine but if you do it obviously kills the cycle before it's finished. Do it some more times then you'll find the same symbol lighting up orange or red and flasing. If you see that you have to pull over and do a manual regen cycle which could take 30-45 mins. The more you ignore these things or unaware of them the more likely you'll suddenly find yourself in limp home mode and barely able to get past 30mph.

That's the problem, it needs heat but if the truck or cars lots of short journeys it never really gets to burn off the deposits that can quickly block thesystem up :(

[Konrad C]

I've no experience in DPF/DPD regeneration in cars but plenty with trucks. What I found was that if you weren't aware of what it means, what it's doing and why then you probably by paying little attention to the processes it was. going through could easily make matters quicly much worse.

DPD systems require heat in the exhaust to burn off the soot and normally when it's around time to regenerate it either waits until. it's hot enough or it sprays fuel in the exhaust to rapidly increase the heat until it's hot enough to gon hrough the regeneration cycle.

As I said I can only talk about my experience with trucks but a symbol, basically like a puff of smoke lights up green to let you know it's. regenerating. So long as you never turned the engine off during a regen cycle it should be fine but if you do it obviously kills the cycle before it's finished. Do it some more times then you'll find the same symbol lighting up orange or red and flasing. If you see that you have to pull over and do a manual regen cycle which could take 30-45 mins. The more you ignore these things or unaware of them the more likely you'll suddenly find yourself in limp home mode and barely able to get past 30mph.

That's the problem, it needs heat but if the truck or cars lots of short journeys it never really gets to burn off the deposits that can quickly block thesystem up :(

Well put FastBob.

That is the issue with modern diesels and the fact that some owners really don't care about the technical side of them. I also blame the manufacturers, cars sales people and the motoring press. The talk of great economy, low emissions, smoothness and reliability/longevity, seems to be eroded by the technology that helps it - DPF, EGR and DMF (dual mass flywheel).

When they go wrong outside of warranty, depending on age it can cost nearly the price of the car!

Some cars also have a chemical store to assist DPF regen that need topping up. This can cost up to £1000.

Now with diesel now being label dirty again in some markets, petrol and hybrid electric are catching up on the diesel economy, I know my next car will be petrol.

If I asked owners how they used their diesel cars, I bet a lot will do a majority of short journeys, with the occasional motorway run.

Lets see what happens in the near future.

[DBPC900]

Thanks for the gen men.

Toyota now recommend a low ash oil 5w30 C2, the C2 denoting the low ash. The 0W30 C2 oil is only used for hybrids.

So just in case, I changed the oil and oil filter as per spec.

The majority of my driving is 70-80 mph motorway/dual carriage way. Yesterday I drove to the coast and 70% of that

journey was motorway. Which means that by the time I left for home, after dark and had probably traveled 15 miles or so,

at 30/40 mph, hey presto smoke for a few seconds. So in line with keeping things hot, I dropped a cog and made the engine

run faster. No more smoke and the rest of the journey was fast road and motorway.

So, does ambient air temperature have an effect, or am I changing up the box too quickly?

[Konrad C]

Thanks for the gen men.

Toyota now recommend a low ash oil 5w30 C2, the C2 denoting the low ash. The 0W30 C2 oil is only used for hybrids.

So just in case, I changed the oil and oil filter as per spec.

The majority of my driving is 70-80 mph motorway/dual carriage way. Yesterday I drove to the coast and 70% of that

journey was motorway. Which means that by the time I left for home, after dark and had probably traveled 15 miles or so,

at 30/40 mph, hey presto smoke for a few seconds. So in line with keeping things hot, I dropped a cog and made the engine

run faster. No more smoke and the rest of the journey was fast road and motorway.

So, does ambient air temperature have an effect, or am I changing up the box too quickly?

Your diesel is long geared and has torque low down, so you are barely of 2000rpm at motorway speeds in 6th gear. This may be enough for the regen to work or you need to drop down a gear or two to raise the rpm. Then keep it in that gear for few miles to generate more heat quickly. Ambient temperature should not make any difference if the engine is working harder.

From what you described, your journey may have been enough to clear the DPF. More oil changes are good too.

My brother has a Renault Grand Scenic 2.0 dCi (Nissan M9R) engine, and the way he drives it (short shifts) would have block the DPF, if the car had one fitted. Luckily the car does not have one. I recently told mentioned the fact to him, so he is aware. His next car will be petrol and not Renault!

[Konrad C]

Read the link from the Lexus forum.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/98800-dpf-problems-engine-management-and-traction-control-light/

Same engine different car.

[fastbob72]

I'm curious how the DPF works on cars. i.e does it light up on the dash during the regen cycle, can you manually regen or does it all happen in the background so the driver is unaware it's even happening.

Added a couple of pics I took earlier on my tacho break of the DPF warning and manual regen switch..... do you have these on a car??

[fastbob72]

I'm curious how the DPF works on cars. i.e does it light up on the dash during the regen cycle, can you manually regen or does it all happen in the background so the driver is unaware it's even happening.

Added a couple of pics I took earlier on my tacho break of the DPF warning and manual regen switch..... do you have these on a car??

[Heidfirst]

think that it depends on the car whether there is a DPF regen light - I don't think that Toyotas have it but some other brands do.

Similarly afaik Toyotas don't have a manual regen button (but they can be forced to regen via software) but perhaps another brand may.

[fastbob72]

Cool hust curious really. The job i've got now am driving a Fuso Canter which the photos came off... haven't seen even the green autoregen light come on but my last job it was an Iveco Easyshift 7.5 tonner and it always a real a nightmare. The DPF light would come. on regularly and if it flashed orange or red for a manual regen it also. went into ultra limp home mode, max speee 35mph and it need miles to get up. to. that speed.... not fun at 8pm 120.miles from. home haha. Found out by trial and error never ever switch the ebhine off during auti regen.

My latest 7.5 tonner uses DPF and Adblue, usually ir's either or with Adblue being a far superior method of reducing emmisions and practicality. Perhaps Toyota should use it toi

[Heidfirst]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the new BMW-derived diesels use Adblue. BMW started to roll this out in models from 2013>.

I understand that Adblue is not cheap though?

[fastbob72]

Don't know to be honest never had to pay for it just go roynd n get it put it on the companys account lol