Full Service Or Full Service+ Options

[estate]

Hi

My Avensis is due its 4 year/ 40,000mls service soon and while booking it in for it's service I was informed by Lindop of Queensferry that it requires the Full Service+ and not just the Full Service as its now 4 years old. I was also informed that if I choose to just have the Full Service and I have a warranty claim on something that would have been checked during the Full Service+ the warranty claim may not be valid.

Does anyone know what the difference between the two services are and do you think they were correct in informing me that the warranty could be effected?

All I know is that Full Service cost £239 and the Full service+ cost £349.

I asked Toyota GB for advice.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Comparison -

https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/service-and-maintenance/car-servicing.json

and

https://www.toyota.co.uk/download/cms/gben/ToyotaFixedPriceServicing_tcm-3060-294039.pdf

Note that neither Full or Full+ includes things like brake fluid change (due every 2 years)

[estate]

Thanks for the links Frostyballs.

I can see that the extra £110 is for replacing the fuel filter, checking the valves, cleaning the airflow meter and doing a smoke test.

I still don't understand the reasoning behind the advice from Lindop about the warranty being effected if I don't go for the Full Service+. Hopefully Toyota GB will have the answer.

[Cyker]

Check what they are going to do before hand. I booked one assuming they would change the fuel filter as part of the job but they didn't.

When I complained about it and pointed out that it explicitly says Fuel Filter, they pointed at the "(Model dependent)" part and said their system didn't list replacing the fuel filter as something on the schedule.

Without that, it makes the full+ service rather poor value for money given how much more it costs.

[estate]

Thanks Cyker

Yes it does look like a poor deal and I'll definitely check what's including if I opt for full service+ option.

[estate]

Here is Toyota GB reply:

"The Full + service has a lot more checks involved with it. If you go on to www.toyota.co.uk and then go to menu "Caring for your vehicle" and then " Service and Maintenance" you will be able to view what it involved within each service.

Your Warranty will not be effected if you have a full service as apposed to the full+ service, As long as your vehicle is serviced every year or every 10,000 miles it will be within Warranty".

We know what the "lot more checks are" and as I assumed the warranty isn't effected if I only get the Full Service. Lindop needs to brief it's Service Managers.

[TomdeGuerre]

Thanks for the links Frostyballs.

I can see that the extra £110 is for replacing the fuel filter, checking the valves, cleaning the airflow meter and doing a smoke test.

I still don't understand the reasoning behind the advice from Lindop about the warranty being effected if I don't go for the Full Service+. Hopefully Toyota GB will have the answer.

Be aware that checking the valves means an audible check only. If the valve clearances require adjustment there will be fairly substantial extra charges involved. If your engine sounds "clattery" (in old parlance if it sounds like the tappets need adjusted) it will involve removing the camshaft cover and changing shims - or lash adjusters as they call them.

[Devon Aygo]

I'll put my head above the parapet here and state that the response on the Toyota blog is inaccurate and the the statement from the service manager " a warranty claim on something that would have been checked/replaced during the Full Service+ the warranty claim may not be valid " is correct if should a claim be made and it shown that failure to correctly service the car has caused the failure.

As a specific example on your car the fuel filter is included as part of a Full+ service and not a Full I have had a customer who after being advised of the potential warranty implications to only have a Full service and exclude the fuel filter, approximately 5000 miles later his engine warning light came on and the car went into limp mode, the fault was a restriction of fuel flow through the fuel filter had prevented the correct regeneration of the Diesel particulate filter causing a blockage. Warranty refused to cover the repair as the cause was directly related to a failure to maintain the car correctly.

Without going into massive detail the client tried to force Toyota to cover the repair both parties agreed to allow the case to be decided by an independent third party arbitrator and the case was decided in favour of Toyota as the requirement to correctly service the car is clearly stated, the customer was clearly informed and decided not to service the car correctly.

[Whitewagon]

Frank, your car must be worth somewhere in the region of £10,000, with a major fault it will be considerably less. You still have the benefit of the Toyota 5 year warranty which is known to be very generous to owners who have had their cars serviced correctly by their dealer network. For the sake of a relatively small amount of money is it worth risking a compromise to that warranty should something go wrong. So for a very small percentage of the cars value you will have peace of mind.

[estate]

Thanks everyone, having considered all your views and advice and have booked in for a Full Service + with a Toyota approved service centre (they don't sell Toyota's) and they will do the extra checks: replace fuel filter, brake fluid, clean air flow meter and smoke test etc.

What I can't understand is why Toyota have introduced this service + option. If they know that it needs checking or replacing to avoid warranty claim issues. Why not include it in the full service, instead of clouding the issue by introducing another service that if you choose not to have it could possibly result in a warranty claim being refused.

Interestingly I've noticed this option is available for 2 years/ 20,000mls vehicles, but was never mentioned when I took it for that service. Has it just been introduced to cover thier new 20,000mls between servicing policy but have written it across the whole range?

Thanks again for your advice.

[Heidfirst]

The Intermediate, Full & Full+ has been around for several years (in fact possibly since Toyota introduced their fixed price servicing?).

Full+ certainly pre-dates the new BMW diesels which I think are the only Toyotas that currently have 20,000km service intervals. Your car & mine are on 1 year/12,500 miles whichever comes sooner.

I guess the reason that they have the 3 levels is to keep the cost of servicing down over a vehicle's life - of course if you want to have a Full+ every 2nd service instead of every 4th carry on ... ;)

[Cyker]

I think it must be within the last decade it was introduced; I don't remember it being an option while I owned my previous Yaris D4D until its last service before I sold it to my brother (After finding the rare and coveted 5-door version! ).

I would never do it on this one again after my previous experiences, but this one's well out of warranty!

[Devon Aygo]

Thanks everyone, having considered all your views and advice and have booked in for a Full Service + with a Toyota approved service centre (they don't sell Toyota's) and they will do the extra checks: replace fuel filter, brake fluid, clean air flow meter and smoke test etc.

What I can't understand is why Toyota have introduced this service + option. If they know that it needs checking or replacing to avoid warranty claim issues. Why not include it in the full service, instead of clouding the issue by introducing another service that if you choose not to have it could possibly result in a warranty claim being refused.

Interestingly I've noticed this option is available for 2 years/ 20,000mls vehicles, but was never mentioned when I took it for that service. Has it just been introduced to cover thier new 20,000mls between servicing policy but have written it across the whole range?

Thanks again for your advice.

TBH Toyota haven't changed anything other than giving each service a name, the servicing on your car would have been the same prior to Toyota introducing fixed price servicing. What would have been different is what each dealer charged, different dealers in different locations have different labour costs and that was reflected in varying costs for the same service. To fix this Toyota fixed the costs of their servicing at all dealers to the same prices.

On diesel/petrol ( where spark plugs are due every 40,000 miles ) the schedule is Intermediate, Full, Intermediate then Full+ with brake fluid every two years

On petrol/hybrid ( where spark plugs are due every 60,000 miles ) the schedule is Intermediate, Full, Intermediate, Full, Intermediate then Full + with brake fluid every two years

[estate]

As I said earlier having considered the comments and advice I have booked the Full Service + that includes replacing the brake fluid, which is replaced every 2 years no matter if it’s a Full or Full+ service and replacing the fuel filter.

On the fixed price issue, the prices are the maximum retail price. Toyota Service Outlets are free to offer lower prices, so it’s worth asking if you can get it cheaper than the advertised price.

I still think there is confusion because, Toyota GB has stated to me “Your Warranty will not be effected if you have a full service as apposed to the full+ service, as long as your vehicle is serviced every year or every 10,000 miles it will be within Warranty" and yet Lee (Devon Aygo) has known a case were a warranty repair was refused as the cause was directly related to a failure to maintain the car correctly, because they opted not to have the Full + service when the fuel filter, that caused the problem, would have been replaced.

Then you have Cyker who though he was getting the fuel filter changed on the Full + service only to be told it’s not on the schedule. So he felt it was poor value for money and I agree.

In my mind Toyota GB should take the choice of what servicing you can have away from the Service Outlets and the vehicle owners, if the owner wishes to keep the warranty valid, then there would be no ambiguity and the owner would know that the Service Outlets are not carrying out unnecessary work and charging extra for it. Statements from dealership like “If you choose to just have the Full Service and then have a warranty claim on something that would have been checked during the Full + Service, then the warranty claim may not be valid” is totally unprofessional and leave a doubt in your mind about the effectiveness of the Service Outlet.

Last point does anyone know if the Diesel smoke test, that’s carried out during a Full + service, the same as the emission test that’s check during a MOT?

[Heidfirst]

" Statements from dealership like “If you choose to just have the Full Service and then have a warranty claim on something that would have been checked during the Full + Service, then the warranty claim may not be valid” is totally unprofessional and leave a doubt in your mind about the effectiveness of the Service Outlet."

whereas, if true - & it certainly seems sensible to me, I would view a dealer telling me that as being extremely professional. Imo far, far worse would be not to be told it & then have a problem because of it ...

[estate]

There should be no ambiguity when it comes to warranty claims, "may not be valid" is a grey area.

I've had a warranty decision, albeit small refused by a Toyota Service Outlet only for it to be reversed by Toyota GB.

[TomdeGuerre]

There should be no ambiguity when it comes to warranty claims, "may not be valid" is a grey area.

I've had a warranty decision, albeit small refused by a Toyota Service Outlet only for it to be reversed by Toyota GB.

Totally agree there but they’ve got you over a barrel, they like to keep you on the stoat as we say in this part of the world. I’m an ex-mechanic and well able to argue my corner when it comes to warranty claims as I did with my last Auris with the disc brakes and the MMT transmission and as I did with this one which was supposed to be serviced but when i checked it the oil looked dirty and the oil filter housing was dirty and leaking oil slightly. but not everyone is.

I could easily do my own servicing but, as I’ve said here before, with this CVT box I’m taking no chances and bought a Toyota service pack, that way if anything goes wrong with that Pandora’s box it’s their worry, not mine.

As I’ve also said before, I have a local indy that I trust and use when I need a service book legitimately stamped so when I called him and asked for a 3 yr service package quote his own schedule was cheaper. But when I said I wanted him to follow the Toyota schedule he actually came back with a higher quote than Toyota. Load of bllx if you ask me, I’ve looked at the two schedules (Toyotas and his) and most of it is just visual and I couldn’t see how he wanted that much more

[Heidfirst]

There should be no ambiguity when it comes to warranty claims, "may not be valid" is a grey area.

I've had a warranty decision, albeit small refused by a Toyota Service Outlet only for it to be reversed by Toyota GB.

I suspect that's because Toyota (at least in the UK) have a very good reputation for doing things under "goodwill" rather than actually having to under the letter of their warranty.