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Gen 3 versus Gen 4, from new owners point of view


barrycoll
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Pete B (in Plug In post)  paints a very favourable picture of the improvements with the new car, and reading the other posts, it does seem that the main dissatisfactions with the new car, come from ancillary items such as phone connections, and sound systems/sat nav etc....although Priuschat have some youtube videos of trim falling off of Gen 4 sunroof, (which, personally, I would be quite happy with!!)

Pete suggests that the Gen 4 with 15's" is the most obvious choice (probably, and basically the spare wheel), and others comments on this would be interesting, especially in relation to the general road demeanour of a new 15" car over a 17" one.

Seemingly some folk will be swayed by the showroom aesthetic appeal of the 17" car, over the common sense of the 15" one, and some feedback from both camps would make interesting reading....

My one test drive of a Gen 4 (while my Gen 3 was being serviced), was very favourable (15"s), but I did find the the airvents, had not improved, and still turned them selves OFF when pointed directly at the driver.....a really hopeless, and unintuitive, design especially as the GT86 I am ensconsed in once a week (until the chap passes his IAM test!), has a brilliant and easy design.

The test drive was much too short, and the salesperson too distracting, to notice much else.

 

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I suppose I should paint some balance - the air vents also disappoint because (unlike Gen 1 & 2 Prius) there are no individual controls for them.

My biggest disappointments are, biggest pain first:

  1. loss of about 40% interior storage space - I curse Toyota on almost every trip for this! - was almost a show stopper for buying another Prius
  2. loss of space under boot floor - now have junk laying on floor of the boot which makes putting my folding e-bike in and out a pain
  3. loss of rear headroom - if I traveled in the back I'd have avoided the Gen 4 Prius - I will be telling taxi firms not to send a Gen 4 Prius if there's a few of us

However, the plus points would fill a book, and I for one think the sound system on the Excel model is brilliant (10 Speakers, allegedly, but I don't know where they all are) and my Samsung Android phone works flawlessly with the bluetooth.

I agree the SatNav, pretty though it is, is naff - if it were an option, I wouldn't pay £50 for it! (If I'd bought my last Gen 3 new, it would have cost me £1000 for the SatNav - massive robbery considering how out of date it is and the screen and audio hardware is already in the car).

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  • 2 weeks later...

As you say Pete, the storage problem is now really acute....front and rear door pockets pathetic, when they could be the whole width

No under front seat storage (lockable box in my last Golf), no webbing in the seat backs, and always the ineviteable drinks container sockets....probably be ones for pop-corn in the next model

It would be nice to hear a comment from the design team about why storage takes such low priority

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5 minutes ago, barrycoll said:

...It would be nice to hear a comment from the design team about why storage takes such low priority

or any of the crazy things they do - why give something that's brilliant on one version and take it away in the next?

The Yaris is also a good example - I had a 2000 model and 2011 model - they used to have several really compelling reasons to buy one:

  • three (yes, three) glove boxes, including one in front of the driver
  • storage drawer under the front seat
  • sliding and reclining rear seats that gave the possibility of head and leg room that beat the next size segment cars if boot space could afford to be lost (each part of the 2/3 split sections could be slid & reclined separately - massive flexibility)
  • amazing centralised reflected digital instruments that appeared to be much further away (great for reducing eye fatigue on a long journey)
  • retractable drink holders in front of the air vents that enabled cooled air to keep cold drinks cold

All gone for the 2012 onwards models which instead had:

  • one tiny glove box (the worst interior storage of any car I've ever seen)
  • fixed rear seats with poor leg room and impossible headroom
  • 1950s style round dials partly hidden by the steering wheel that work the eye muscles much harder

Insanity or what?

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Obviously it all comes down to money - "how much can we save if we do away with ......."!

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23 hours ago, PeteB said:

three (yes, three) glove boxes, including one in front of the driver

And cubby holes either side of the central dash column. ;)

Our 2005 Yaris was brilliant for storage.  The 2012 Hybrid Yaris might be larger but we can't get as much stuff stashed away.

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20 hours ago, Duffryn said:

Obviously it all comes down to money - "how much can we save if we do away with ......."!

Sure - let's hope they saved more money than lost profit on lost sales!

If it wasn't for the Hybrid System, my first Toyota (2000) would have been my last.

I'd have loved it if they'd shoehorned the Hybrid System into a 2010 spec Yaris (or even a 2000 one!).

I was chatting to a guy just after the latest Yaris came out in 2012 and he'd just ordered a Renault Twingo after several Yaris because they still had the features for which he'd liked the Yaris so much!

The Twingo was the car the original Yaris copied for sliding rear seat and central digital dash - although the Mk 1 Twingo was never sold in the UK - I hired a few in Spain and they were great.

Although Renault have followed the insanity too, with a fixed rear seat in the latest model (still has digit dash though - I think) - but that was because they now fit a tiny turbocharged engine under the boot floor, driving the rear wheels.

Apologies to the OP for drifting so far OT.

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On 9/22/2016 at 1:06 PM, barrycoll said:

... some folk will be swayed by the showroom aesthetic appeal of the 17" car, over the common sense of the 15" one, and some feedback from both camps would make interesting reading...

...the airvents ... still turned them selves OFF when pointed directly at the driver...

As a guilty party for straying OT, I too would be interested in other view about the 15" Vs 17" wheels thing.

I'm puzzled by the air vents comment, because the blast from them some of the time is one reason I wish they'd brought back the thumb wheels to vary the flow for each of the four face level vents as fitted in the first two generations of Prius (and lots of other makes, including some under £10k!).

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4 hours ago, PeteB said:

Sure - let's hope they saved more money than lost profit on lost sales!

but how many sales would they lose if they included the features but ended up being £500 or more dearer than a competitor that didn't include them?

Remember that we on here are probably more interested in our cars than most despite being Toyota drivers (which probably means that we bought with our minds rather than our hearts) & scrutinise such things. Many other people will look at the price first & not notice the omissions.

& pretty much every time I have bought a car I have still found out things after the event (some good, some bad) ...

 

 

 

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Yes, the 15" versus !7" option still has no definitive comments (other than PeteBs), one way or another.................????

 

Apropos the dash vents, well my beef is that they have an On/Off design that is based on the direction that is chosen.....not on a separate wheel/switch.

Get into the car after being parked up in the Spanish sun, and when the flow is directed just where you want it, and you find that is the OFF position......

My last Golf had a total open switch on the keyfob, where just holding the button opened all the windows and the roof.....I believe that the USA cars with THE OPTIONAL SUN ROOF (!!!!!!) have that feature

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On 08/10/2016 at 6:16 PM, barrycoll said:

...Apropos the dash vents, well my beef is that they have an On/Off design that is based on the direction that is chosen.....not on a separate wheel/switch...

well, we're certainly in agreement the individual controls would be highly desirable (to you and me, at least!).  I think on a car costing £24-29k, it's really mean not to have them.

Ah - you probably don't want them on your face under those conditions then - I just tried mine, selecting face ventilation manually, and turning the fan up to full - the outboard vent, in the off position is pointing to the side window, the centre vents when off are pointing across each other to the opposite seat.  When pointed at my face, if I wore a wig it would be on the back seat!

Come on other Gen 4 owners (and would-be owners), what's your view on the wheel sizes?

I do recall someone (in the early days of the launch) said he'd ordered 17" on his company Prius because he liked the look, but was dismayed when I discovered (too late by the sound of things) the extra 4% benefit in kind tax he'd have to pay.

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On 10/8/2016 at 6:16 PM, barrycoll said:

Yes, the 15" versus !7" option still has no definitive comments (other than PeteBs), one way or another.................????

 

Apropos the dash vents, well my beef is that they have an On/Off design that is based on the direction that is chosen.....not on a separate wheel/switch.

Get into the car after being parked up in the Spanish sun, and when the flow is directed just where you want it, and you find that is the OFF position......

My last Golf had a total open switch on the keyfob, where just holding the button opened all the windows and the roof.....I believe that the USA cars with THE OPTIONAL SUN ROOF (!!!!!!) have that feature

Global opening and closing of the windows is available on the UK Gen 4 but it is disabled by default (god knows why ?). You can enable it through the Carista App on an Android phone or tablet via the OBD port, using a bluetooth adapter (£3 on ebay). The app allows you to change several features that are normally dealer only, like the reverse beep auto headlight sensitivity etc. etc. There is a fee to pay on the app of £10 (IIRC) if you want to change settings, which gives you 7 days use, which is cheaper than the dealers' fees to change things and 7 days gives you time if you decide you want to change something back. BTW a lot of the US variants only get the Global opening option, not global closing.

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A little bit of arcane information, Keith, that is very interesting........(for future reference)

 

The global close didn't work on the sunroof on the Golf either, as some little blighter might just have his head through it at the time....

 

...and even the close button on my Gen 3 sunroof, has been configured tio require a second push when half way closed...Mr T. didn't want to be paying out for guillotining owners snotty nosed brats...

 

Just a pity that there is no App to install a sunroof in a Gen 4

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6 hours ago, barrycoll said:

 

 

Just a pity that there is no App to install a sunroof in a Gen 4

The angle grinder app ?

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I am currently  looking to buy a Gen 4 but like my previous Prius especially nobody wants to provide a car to test in the spec I want.  I have had two out the only demo, one while my car was in for a service. Both unfortunately on 17 " wheels. One was noticably quieter than my Auris Excel the other noisier. Nobody appears to have a demonstration Business on 15" wheels. Why anybody would pay 1.8K for Sat Nav and rain sensors and IPA is beyond me or sacrifice 8 mpg for expensive tires. In ice and snow rain sensors are a nuisance. I have never used IPA. front sensors are annoying if left on and rear ones inaudible and with a camera superfluous. Now a front camera would be nice. 

To drive the Gen 4 is a leap forward from the Gen 3, and the sanitary ware is about to be changed.  On the road it feels very quick. The blind spot, lane change, Hud. and instrumentation fantastic. The one I had on demo first showed an average mpg of 67. The second, with only 45miles on the clock 40.4 (probably not realistic). 

Both were in Uber colours Silver and Black. I have yet to see the Red or Blue but the range of colour would suggest they are not aiming this product at private owners.

If the first is anything to go by an Average of 70 should be achievable, but spare wheel, cold weather will have ano adverse effect. If I can get to drive one on 15 " wheels and get the car I want at the right price then I will go for it before the tax hike. If not then I will stay with what I have as I love the colour , leather trim, the false floor with a flat loading and hidden tray.

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3 hours ago, cviclark said:

and the sanitary ware is about to be changed.

Where did you hear about this, do you have details of what's being changed.  I have just placed my order for an Excel and I really like the white console and selector area.

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3 hours ago, Harters said:

I really like the white console and selector area.

If yours comes in black or red, I'll happily swap. It still looks like a bidet after four months of living with it.

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42 minutes ago, Ancient Nerd said:

If yours comes in black or red, I'll happily swap. It still looks like a bidet after four months of living with it.

What do you mean by this?  Are you saying they are getting rid of the white and changing it to black or red?  I have ordered Pure White for the body colour.

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30 minutes ago, Harters said:

What do you mean by this?  Are you saying they are getting rid of the white and changing it to black or red?  I have ordered Pure White for the body colour.

My apologies if I misled you. I have no knowledge of any changes, just responding to cviclark's suggestion that it might. The white sanitaryware was very nearly a deal breaker for me. I really dislike it, and SWMBO likes it a whole lot less.  It would be fine for a white car, but for a red car with black interior, it looks awful.

If Toyota do decide to bring  some  sanit(ar)y to their design, by colour matching the relevant bits to either the interior (black) or the exterior (red), then I would happily buy the replacement bits. This would of course not be without some complaints about the stupidity of the  need to do so. 

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10 hours ago, Ancient Nerd said:

My apologies if I misled you. I have no knowledge of any changes, just responding to cviclark's suggestion that it might. The white sanitaryware was very nearly a deal breaker for me. I really dislike it, and SWMBO likes it a whole lot less.  It would be fine for a white car, but for a red car with black interior, it looks awful.

If Toyota do decide to bring  some  sanit(ar)y to their design, by colour matching the relevant bits to either the interior (black) or the exterior (red), then I would happily buy the replacement bits. This would of course not be without some complaints about the stupidity of the  need to do so. 

 

Ah, thank you for clarifying.  I agree that on a red car it is quite a statement when you open the door, but on white it kind of makes sense.

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18 hours ago, cviclark said:

... Nobody appears to have a demonstration Business on 15" wheels. Why anybody would pay 1.8K for Sat Nav and rain sensors and IPA is beyond me or sacrifice 8 mpg for expensive tires. In ice and snow rain sensors are a nuisance. I have never used IPA. front sensors are annoying if left on and rear ones inaudible and with a camera superfluous. Now a front camera would be nice. 

To drive the Gen 4 is a leap forward from the Gen 3, and the sanitary ware is about to be changed.  On the road it feels very quick. The blind spot, lane change, Hud. and instrumentation fantastic. The one I had on demo first showed an average mpg of 67. The second, with only 45miles on the clock 40.4 (probably not realistic). 

...If the first is anything to go by an Average of 70 should be achievable, but spare wheel, cold weather will have an adverse effect. If I can get to drive one on 15 " wheels and get the car I want at the right price then I will go for it before the tax hike...

I thought the same initially, and thought I'd be going for a Business Plus to get 15" wheels, and hoped leather trim would be an option as it was on the Gen 3.  I didn't want the auto wipers either.  I had the SatNav on my old Gen 3b Prius T3 (a £1500 option but I didn't pay it, it was an ex-demo car).  It was rubbish - looked pretty, but I used a light years superior TomTom, which I still use on my Gen 4!

However, when I discovered leather was standard on the Excel and not available at all on other models.  As it was also possible to opt for 15" wheels on the Excel (and get a £400 rebate) and a no cost optional spare wheel, that's what I went for.  The auto wipers can no be switched back to ordinary intermittent (but strangely, only by the dealer).  I've twice driven the Business Plus demonstrator on 17", and in my opinion the noise levels and ride quality are better than previous Prius models on either size wheels.  My Excel on 15" is better still in both areas.  I find the front sensors are fine, they only work with the transmission in D or B, and the dash's graphic display of distance and location of obstacles very helpful.  Personally, I actually find the rear sensor reassuring too, and I got the dealer to switch off the beep that just indicated reverse is selected so there's not too much going on at once.

A front camera would be nice, but all round cameras as fitted to many cars now would be wonderful (especially as they work when the mirrors are folded in).

The IPA is amazing - got into (and out of) some spaces I wouldn't have though possible.

I absolutely agree the drive is a major step forward (not that I didn't enjoy previous generations) and I don't mind the so called sanitary ware as it goes nicely with the "cool grey" interior I've chosen.

I'm generally getting almost 100 extra miles out of each £40 tankful (despite it being a claimed 2 litres smaller than the Gen 3).

I was pleased I could get the London Congestion Charge exemption (not possible on the models with 17" wheels) and in ideal weather saw 84 mpg (indicated) on a 120 mile each way trip, with the cruise set to 60 mph when permissible.

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Thanks for your post confirming my suspicion that that the gen4 is fine on 15" wheels. Pity Toyota do not supply any to dealers in the NW to demo.

If you log on Autotrader at Gen 4 you will see a couple with pics of Black replacement  for the standard white inside bits. In the US they offer black applique due to the adverse affect white had on sales. It has been suggested that the best way to change it is to have it shrink wrapped in a colour of preference.

It is definitely a Marmite feature personally I think it's NAFF and cheapest the whole car. It would not stop me buying it as it is easy to alter as is the almost flat boot. 

 

 

I am currently  looking to buy a Gen 4 but like my previous Prius especially nobody wants to provide a car to test in the spec I want.  I have had two out the only demo, one while my car was in for a service. Both unfortunately on 17 " wheels. One was noticably quieter than my Auris Excel the other noisier. Nobody appears to have a demonstration Business on 15" wheels. Why anybody would pay 1.8K for Sat Nav and rain sensors and IPA is beyond me or sacrifice 8 mpg for expensive tires. In ice and snow rain sensors are a nuisance. I have never used IPA. front sensors are annoying if left on and rear ones inaudible and with a camera superfluous. Now a front camera would be nice. 

To drive the Gen 4 is a leap forward from the Gen 3, and the sanitary ware is about to be changed.  On the road it feels very quick. The blind spot, lane change, Hud. and instrumentation fantastic. The one I had on demo first showed an average mpg of 67. The second, with only 45miles on the clock 40.4 (probably not realistic). 

Both were in Uber colours Silver and Black. I have yet to see the Red or Blue but the range of colour would suggest they are not aiming this product at private owners.

If the first is anything to go by an Average of 70 should be achievable, but spare wheel, cold weather will have ano adverse effect. If I can get to drive one on 15 " wheels and get the car I want at the right price then I will go for it before the tax hike. If not then I will stay with what I have as I love the colour , leather trim, the false floor with a flat loading and hidden tray.

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6 hours ago, Harters said:

Ah, thank you for clarifying.  I agree that on a red car it is quite a statement when you open the door, but on white it kind of makes sense.

Look on Autotrader ex demo prius a couple (blue Western motors) pics show cars where the white is now black. Also look at Prius Chat

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4 hours ago, cviclark said:

Thanks for your post confirming my suspicion that that the gen4 is fine on 15" wheels. Pity Toyota do not supply any to dealers in the NW to demo.

If you log on Autotrader at Gen 4 you will see a couple with pics of Black replacement  for the standard white inside bits. In the US they offer black applique due to the adverse affect white had on sales. It has been suggested that the best way to change it is to have it shrink wrapped in a colour of preference.

It is definitely a Marmite feature personally I think it's NAFF and cheapest the whole car. It would not stop me buying it as it is easy to alter as is the almost flat boot. 

 

 

I am currently  looking to buy a Gen 4 but like my previous Prius especially nobody wants to provide a car to test in the spec I want.  I have had two out the only demo, one while my car was in for a service. Both unfortunately on 17 " wheels. One was noticably quieter than my Auris Excel the other noisier. Nobody appears to have a demonstration Business on 15" wheels. Why anybody would pay 1.8K for Sat Nav and rain sensors and IPA is beyond me or sacrifice 8 mpg for expensive tires. In ice and snow rain sensors are a nuisance. I have never used IPA. front sensors are annoying if left on and rear ones inaudible and with a camera superfluous. Now a front camera would be nice. 

To drive the Gen 4 is a leap forward from the Gen 3, and the sanitary ware is about to be changed.  On the road it feels very quick. The blind spot, lane change, Hud. and instrumentation fantastic. The one I had on demo first showed an average mpg of 67. The second, with only 45miles on the clock 40.4 (probably not realistic). 

Both were in Uber colours Silver and Black. I have yet to see the Red or Blue but the range of colour would suggest they are not aiming this product at private owners.

If the first is anything to go by an Average of 70 should be achievable, but spare wheel, cold weather will have ano adverse effect. If I can get to drive one on 15 " wheels and get the car I want at the right price then I will go for it before the tax hike. If not then I will stay with what I have as I love the colour , leather trim, the false floor with a flat loading and hidden tray.

Apart from the initial first supply of demonstrators, Toyota do not specify what trim level a demonstrator has to be the choice is wholly up to the dealers they are obviously going to choose a model/spec that sell best for them.

As for the cars on 15" wheels they are not the most sought after choice for private buyers as a dealer we had two initial Prius from Toyota at launch an Excel on 17" and a Business ED + on 15" both the same colour and very close in spec, the Excel was pre-sold before it even came off the demo fleet the B ED+ went on to the forecourt and sat around eventually becoming the oldest piece of stock, in desperation the sales dept fitted a set of 17" wheels and it sold within the week. Not all dealers are the same but the Excel on 17" is by far the biggest seller with private buyers followed by B ED + on 17" the B ED & Active are nearly all purchased by Fleet companies only a few customers have choosen to spec 15" wheels onto their Excel/B ED +. This makes the car you want unlikely to be available as a demo and hard to come by as a second hand option.

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57 minutes ago, cviclark said:

Look on Autotrader ex demo prius a couple (blue Western motors) pics show cars where the white is now black. Also look at Prius Chat

Yes, I have seen cars where this has been done, someone on this forum has had it changed, but I don't like it at all.  As I have said, I really like the white.  It's all done to personal preference :smile:

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