D4D - Poor starting, after standing for a few hours.

[Mikeyjd]

Recently purchased 2006 D4D 2.2, 120,00 miles. But I am a total RAV4 newbie.

When the car has been standing overnight/several hours it is difficult to start. Usually 2 or 3 times before firing. However this week it is becoming a lot worse. It sounds like it is trying to fire, but doesn't quite catch, sometimes it takes several minutes before it actually starts and I am worried that the Battery will die.

Once the car starts it runs perfectly, no hunting or mis-firing etc. Also seems to have full power.

Note: The car starts immediately when warm or only stopped for a short time.

I have been reading about various causes. e.g. glow plugs, fuel pump/filter, SVC etc. So I am wondering a few things. Do the glow plugs have to be fully efficient to start the car when the temperature is a few degrees above zero? (It isn't that cold at the moment and my other car, an old Rangerover diesel starts immediately on turning the key without the use of glow plugs)

I would guess if the SVC was faulty it would lead to poor running, so is that a likely issue?

Wouldn't a faulty fuel pump or blocked filter cause poor running as well as poor starting?

I wondered if the key was causing a problem so I changed the Battery tonight. I also put some diesel cleaner in the fuel tank to see if things improve.

I also wondered if fuel is draining overnight and requiring a while to prime (I know this can be a problem with some cars, is this a RAV4 issue?)

Battery seems in good nick, it turns the engine over quickly.

Finally could the EGR valve be an issue?

Any thoughts or suggestions folks? Before I take it into the "stealers"

Regards

Mike

 

 

[crofter]

Hi Mike,from what you say I would suspect the glow plugs first.They either work or not. Only had petrol ravs so do not know if there is a light that comes on to show the glow plugs are energized. Some vehicles keep the glow plugs on for a few seconds after the light has gone off,maybe 10 secs so might help to wait the few seconds longer before turning the starter Just a thought!!

[Uld]

Looks that petrol going back in tank. Maybe air going in sistem . Check a hoses maybe is micro hole . 

[IanML]

I understand that with modern diesels, the glow plugs are only required for regeneration.

Air getting into the fuel line was my thought too.

 

If you are concerned about running the Battery down, use a mains-operated charger.

[TETOCONPOLERA]

Hi

Have you tried to pump the fuel filter?

Just pump it till its become Hard before ignition

Y Have the same problem on my avensis and it is just air in the system

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[crofter]

Would not air entering the system have some effect all the time or is it self purging ?

 

 

[Mikeyjd]

59 minutes ago, crofter said:

Hi Mike,from what you say I would suspect the glow plugs first.They either work or not. Only had petrol ravs so do not know if there is a light that comes on to show the glow plugs are energized. Some vehicles keep the glow plugs on for a few seconds after the light has gone off,maybe 10 secs so might help to wait the few seconds longer before turning the starter Just a thought!!

The glow plug light comes on for several seconds, but I don't know if they are actually working. I was wondering if they are actually needed when it isn't too cold, or is the Rav4 very sensitive?

[Mikeyjd]

38 minutes ago, TETOCONPOLERA said:

 

Hi

 

Have you tried to pump the fuel filter?

 

Just pump it till its become Hard before ignition

 

Y Have the same problem on my avensis and it is just air in the system

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G355M mediante Tapatalk

I do not know how to do this. I am a new Rav owner.

[Mikeyjd]

18 minutes ago, crofter said:

Would not air entering the system have some effect all the time or is it self purging ?

 

 

I was wondering myself that whatever is causing the starting problem does not affect the running of the engine once it has started. It is a mystery to me.

 

[crofter]

I tested some glow plugs ages ago by removing them and connecting a jump lead from the negative post on the Battery to the to body of the plug and the positive connected lead to where the cable was fixed when it was in the car. Make very sure that the 2 leads never touch each other and that the plug to be tested is not on any flammable surface, or on a metal one, as if working they will get red hot. If not they need replacing. The fuel is ignited in the cylinder by compressing the air in there. Compressing air enough causes it to get hot enough to do this when the engine is running

 

 

[Alan1234]

Hi regarding your cold start issue . Most Diesel engine's these days are fitted with quick heat glow plugs that are switched on and off by the  Ecu for a set amount of time , if you pull out one of these glow plugs and test them on a Battery you can damage them by glowing them to long . The best way to test them in place is . When the engines cold switch on your ignition until the dash lights come on count to 10 then switch off do this 3 more times then start normally on the 4th attempt your engine should start ok . This will tell you your glow plugs are knackered . 

[alan333]

Glow plugs can be tested without removing them.  Remove the wire on top which supplies the power.  Touch a poz jump lead onto the top electric connection of the plug.  If you get a big spark the plug is good, if no spark it's knackered.  Check all four, often there's only one or two faulty.  If you can't get your jump lead in to touch the glow plug extend the glow plug connection by holding a long screw driver or something on the top connection and spark your jump lead against the screwdriver shaft.  It's a course test but pretty reliable.

Bear in mind there are things which can cause fires under a bonnet and around an engine.  If you're not confident with sparks under the bonnet then either remove the plugs and test them, or have a pro do the job.

[IanML]

14 hours ago, Mikeyjd said:

I do not know how to do this. I am a new Rav owner.

For the location of the hand primer, see the last photo in this post.

Just give it some presses for (say) 30 seconds before starting from cold.  If the problem goes away, that would confirm it is an air leak.

Edited February 14, 2017 by IanML
Added last paragraph.

[Mikeyjd]

Guys, thanks for the suggestions. My wife is using the car this week so I will have a play on the weekend. Thanks again.

 

Mike

[Avalon]

For the minimal cost involved glow plugs can easily be changed, after that SCV would be my next consideration working on the basis that it's a RAV and they're known for it. Again easily tested.

[Mikeyjd]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:07 AM, Alan1234 said:

Hi regarding your cold start issue . Most Diesel engine's these days are fitted with quick heat glow plugs that are switched on and off by the  Ecu for a set amount of time , if you pull out one of these glow plugs and test them on a battery you can damage them by glowing them to long . The best way to test them in place is . When the engines cold switch on your ignition until the dash lights come on count to 10 then switch off do this 3 more times then start normally on the 4th attempt your engine should start ok . This will tell you your glow plugs are knackered . 

OK, we tried this on Wednesday morning. Car was same as usual, it took several attempts to start it up.

[Mikeyjd]

On 2/14/2017 at 8:59 AM, IanML said:

For the location of the hand primer, see the last photo in this post.

Just give it some presses for (say) 30 seconds before starting from cold.  If the problem goes away, that would confirm it is an air leak.

Tried it this morning. The car turned over for a while but started on first attempt. Will try a few more days before I am certain it is the problem though. Thanks. If it does turn out to the the problem, what is the best way to rectify it? Fuel pump? New fuel pipes?

[IanML]

Try this video.

[TETOCONPOLERA]

Try 

Excellent video!!

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[Mikeyjd]

Latest. The car is still tricky to start some mornings regardless of how cold or warm the weather is. Once it starts it is fine all day even if left until it is quite cold. It is only the it has been standing for 10-12 hours or more. I can't find any obvious air leaks in the fuel system. If I prime the fuel pump under the bonnet, it starts pretty much straight away, so I am pretty convinced it is just fuel draining back after several hours.

I don't want to throw money at possible solutions if they don't work, so I was thinking of trying a one way valve in the fuel pipe. It is a very cheap solution if it works.

Anyone have suggestions of best place to site this? Also what size would fit?

Thanks Mike

[JuanCierva]

Non-mechanic here, so please don't take any comments I post as me questioning the far superior expertise of many members here, but rather a sign that I know very little about car engines and thus just want to be sure I don't mess things up.

Someone posted that glowplugs can be tested without removing them: "The best way to test them in place is . When the engines cold switch on your ignition until the dash lights come on count to 10 then switch off do this 3 more times then start normally on the 4th attempt your engine should start ok . This will tell you your glow plugs are knackered."

Is this a reliable test then? I've got a 2.0 D4D showing the same starting problems described throughout this thread and would like to take a crack a fixing it myself. I had mechanic tell me it could be the fuel filter...??

[alan333]

IMHO no it's not a reliable test.  The theory of that procedure is that you overheat the working plugs to an extent that the engine starts.  Glow plugs can be tested by a more reliable means without removing them tho:  Remove the wire on top of the plug, take a jump lead or similar from the poz Battery terminal and brush it against the wiring point of the plug.  If you get a big juicy spark the plug is good, if no spark then it's faulty.  If you can't get a jump lead in to position to touch the wiring point on the plug then hold a long screwdriver on the wiring point (thus extending the electrical connection to the screwdriver shaft) and brush the jump lead against the screwdriver shaft.

DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU'RE NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE DOING UNDER A BONNET.  SPARKS ARE HIGHLY LIKELY AND THERE'S A HIGH RISK OF FIRE!!!  IF IN DOUBT LEAVE THE JOB TO A PROFESSIONAL.