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Vibration/juddering at 65mph+


Naloxone
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I have a 2011 Toyota Avensis Estate (2.2L Diesel) which has done 115k. It's been serviced every 10k at Mr T and the last MOT was only a few weeks back with no advisories. 

Unfortunately, I've found that when I get to 65-85mph on the motorway, there is a strong vibration and juddering of the entire car. If you turn the wheel very slightly to the left,(e.g. moving back into lane one) the vibration disappears and it becomes very smooth. If you turn the wheel very slightly to the right (e.g. moving into the fast lane) then the vibration and juddering becomes very noticeably worse. 

There are no problems at lower speeds, the steering doesn't pull to one side and it is otherwise a very smooth drive. I've not noticed any noise from the wheel bearings.

The tyres are four brand new GoodYears fitted by Toyota just a few months back. No bulges or uneven wear. I've had them re-balanced and four wheel laser wheel alignment adjusted, in the hope of solving this problem.

Sadly it hasn't improved the situation at all and I am now at a loss. None of my mechanic friends understand why this gets better on a left hand bend and worsens on a right hand bend. I've had suggestions about checking the CV joints, bushes, drive shaft, calipers etc but I am now at the stage where I'll have to take it back to Mr T and incur significant labour costs for what might otherwise be a simple repair.

Any suggestions would be appreciated?

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I would be looking in the area of the calipers, pads and discs. I've had cars where they make noises when turning one way, but not the other. Worn discs, pads, bent/damaged disc shields and rust on parts can all cause noises and rubbing.

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I'd take the car in and get the tyre balances checked. When I picked my Corolla up the same thing would happen. The whole car would bounce up and down when I went above 60mph. Turned out none of the wheels were balanced. Since they were balanced the problem went away.

Make sure you are present when they check the balance and watch the machine. Both sides should be zero. I've been in a situation before where the clown fitting a new tyre was about to put the tyre on the car with both sides needing 5g of weight. After an argument with him (who did not give a damn about my opinion), and speaking to his boss, the wheels were rectified. But that wouldn't have happened if I wasn't present looking at the work.

You're paying them money to check a vital part of your car, it's just something I couldn't trust someone to do without watching them.

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I've had exactly this kind of issue and after fitting new tyres. Did your problem exist before fitting the new ones? In my case it turned out to be an out of round tyre and was cured by replacement under warranty. You'll need to get the wheels spun up on the balancer and watch them.

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Just to confirm, your balancing can be perfect but if the tyre or wheel is oval you'll get judder.

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Swap your front wheels to the back and see if things change

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Hi,  had exactly the same vibrations at about the same speed (and also under braking sometimes), was less noticeable when accelerating or turning - on a Ford though.  

Had wheels balanced and rebalanced at different place, front to back, checked shape, swapped full size spare I had onto each corner and made no difference, new brake pads/discs tried also.

I'd agree that balancing or poor tyre shape are most likely but mine turned out to be suspension bushes.  Was doing my head in only when they replaced the bushes did the vibration stopped.  Don't ask me how it affected things/caused vibration but it 100% did and was the cause.  

If you've tried everything else it's worth asking someone to look at the bushes on front suspension just in case!!! Mine weren't 'dead' but were split apparently.

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Right, the saga continues....

I took the car into Toyota. They had it for a full day, did several road tests, identified the juddering at speed, and checked (they say) absolutely everything, subsequently find that the wheel balance is fine, the tracking is fine, wheels and tyres are fine and there is no sign of wear to either of the wheel bearings despite the high mileage. 

They assured me the car was safe to drive but that the juddering would not be fixable unless I wanted to throw money away changing parts that didn't appear worn, starting with wheel bearings etc and hope something ends up solving it. I took the car home and moved the right hand side wheels to the left side of the car and vice versa (already tried moving them back to front) and unfortunately in the process I managed to snap a wheel stud by over-tightening a nut with the wheel brace. 

As luck would have it, a mobile mechanic near me only wanted £40 for supplying and fitting a new wheel stud. I am aware these can be done fairly easily but I don't own a decent jack, stands or socket set, so it was easier to pay to have it fixed.....Luckily I did, as the mobile mechanic identified that the front right side brakes were seized at the top and stuck on, as a result the brake pads are hugely unevenly worn (like this, if not worse):

 commonpadwear5_img_lg.jpg

The mechanic spent 15-20 mins with WD40, a vice and a wrench trying to free the the stuck slider, which eventually started moving and came out a little rusted. It's now been sanded down, lubed and re-inserted, thankfully moving freely when the brakes are pressed and released.

Obviously I'm going to have to get a new set of brake pads, but the mobile mechanic is convinced that the seized brake has overheated the brake disc and warped it, as well as wearing the discs unevenly. He believes that the juddering at high speed, despite not being related to the braking, is probably as a result of the unevenly worn/warped disc. When he spun the disc with the wheel off, the sound changes slightly at a certain point of the rotation. 

The juddering is still happening even now the seized brake has been freed. The juddering is significantly worse at high speed with a slight right turn and the 'affected' brake disc is on the right hand side too.

Can an unevenly worn and warped disc cause a high speed judder when bearing right, even when the brakes aren't being applied? If so, I might as well change pads and discs as advised? Obviously I don't want to Shell out for fresh discs if the juddering is totally unrelated.

Very disappointed that Toyota didn't pick up on the seized brake and totally evenly worn pads!!

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31 minutes ago, Naloxone said:

Can an unevenly worn and warped disc cause a high speed judder when bearing right, even when the brakes aren't being applied? If so, I might as well change pads and discs as advised? Obviously I don't want to shell out for fresh discs if the juddering is totally unrelated.

Well, you'll need to change the discs and pads anyway, coz if the pads are as bad as the picture, then the disc will have suffered badly too. Braking components, especially on the front, are not something you should be skimping on to save a few bucks.

A good mechanic can do both sides, pads and discs, in less than an hour. That's including lubing up caliper pins. If it cures the judder, then that's a bonus :smile:

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Sadly not all dealers are the same, with some they actually pull out all the stops and not all the excuses.

Have you tried swapping the front wheels with the back?

I had a problem with a previous car where one of the wheels was causing the vibration and after several attempts at wheel balancing didn't fix it. One tyre place suggested swapping front with the back and that made a big difference.

 

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1 minute ago, Anthony Poli said:

Sadly not all dealers are the same, with some they actually pull out all the stops and not all the excuses.

Have you tried swapping the front wheels with the back?

I had a problem with a previous car where one of the wheels was causing the vibration and after several attempts at wheel balancing didn't fix it. One tyre place suggested swapping front with the back and that made a big difference.

 

Tried swapping them front to back and from side to side. No difference unfortunately.

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By the way, have you had the caliper/s repaired?.

if the calipers have been sticking, that could be the cause of the disc and pad damage.

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1 hour ago, Anthony Poli said:

By the way, have you had the caliper/s repaired?.

if the calipers have been sticking, that could be the cause of the disc and pad damage.

Once the slide pin was freed, it was cleaned, sanded down and re-fitted with brake grease. It is now moving freely but I'm guessing it seized when sat on the garage forecourt for a few months.

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  • 5 years later...

Sorry to revive an old post but I was wondering if you ever solved it as we are having a very simular problem with an 03 Avensis, have taken it to a garrage and they said they can't see anything and have swap wheels round and got some new tyres. 

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I would also want to know whether the matter has been resolved or not. 

I strongly doubt there must have been fault (too much clearance) in the wheel bearing too...

Due to the heating of the brake disc, crease has burned out of the bearing.

 

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