Yaris SR 1.8 - engine noise on cold start

[EliteAlex]

Hi all,

On a cold start, my Yaris makes a kind of rattle noise when it revs up on start up but has stopped by the time the revs drop to idle (if that makes sense). Its a 2008 and just ticked over to 70,000 miles. 

Is this something I should be worries about / get checked out or is it likely to be the fact that the oil has drained from the top of the engine overnight and just needs to recirculate once the engine is started?

It doesn't make this noise on start up when it's warm.

Don't know if its is anything to do with it, but I use 5W-30 oil as opposed to the 0W-20. This was what I'm told by my Toyota dealer, the oil that they put in all their cars they service, regardless of their engine... Just seems strange?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Alex

[FROSTYBALLS]

0W-20 is probably Toyota's preferred oil, but under block exemption the manufacturer cannot insist dealers use the preferred oil. Some dealers do use 5W-30 instead.

[EliteAlex]

Just now, FROSTYBALLS said:

0W-20 is probably Toyota's preferred oil, but under block exemption the manufacturer cannot insist dealers use the preferred oil. Some dealers do use 5W-30 instead.

Thanks FROSTYBALLS! So this is unlikely to be causing this issue then...!

[monkeydave]

just had mine serviced and they put in 0w20 oil  main toyota dealer

 

says in the owners manual the oils you can use and the 0w20 is for all temperatures

[stantheman1]

What brand of oil filter are you using?

[EliteAlex]

10 minutes ago, stantheman1 said:

What brand of oil filter are you using?

The standard OEM one from Toyota.

[stantheman1]

Oh, I see, it can't be that then. Was thinking it could have been an inferior brand without the non return valve causing the issue.

[Madasafish]

It sounds to me like timing chain rattle. The tensioner is controlled by engine oil pressure so when starting from cold, the pressure will be low and the tensioner not fully working.  A 0W oil will flow better when cold so it might improve things..it would be fully synthetic so more expensive..

[EliteAlex]

Deleted

[EliteAlex]

5 hours ago, Madasafish said:

It sounds to me like timing chain rattle. The tensioner is controlled by engine oil pressure so when starting from cold, the pressure will be low and the tensioner not fully working.  A 0W oil will flow better when cold so it might improve things..it would be fully synthetic so more expensive..

That sounds worrying! I wonder how much it is to change the tensioner? Or is it a whole new chain? Don't fancy taking it to main dealer to investigate! £££ 

Do you reckon its worth changin the oil out for some good quality 0W-20 then. I can do that at home so not particularly expensive, other than oil! 

Thanks!

[Cyker]

Unless the previous owner wasn't giving it regular oil changes or using garbage oil, the tensioner is probably okay; They are not a part that generally needs replacing during the life of the engine (Not that I've rad on here anyway!)

 

If it's only happening when cold, I'd try 0W20 or even 0W30 first; It should be pretty evident whether this fixes it or not and it'd be cheaper than doing the tensioner!

5W30 is the 'cheap' oil that some of the less good Toyota dealers put in for cost savings (It's semi-synth); The fully-synth 0W20 is preferred on their newer cars and required to get anywhere near to their rated mpgs!

(We had that a while back where some dealers were using 5W30 in HSD-engined cars instead of 0W20, causing their mpgs to be noticeably worse; The tight tolerances in the newer cars really need 0W20! (Not like my old D4D... that's rated for 10W40!! Still getting mid-60's mpg tho' :P))

 

[EliteAlex]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

Unless the previous owner wasn't giving it regular oil changes or using garbage oil, the tensioner is probably okay; They are not a part that generally needs replacing during the life of the engine (Not that I've rad on here anyway!)

 

If it's only happening when cold, I'd try 0W20 or even 0W30 first; It should be pretty evident whether this fixes it or not and it'd be cheaper than doing the tensioner!

5W30 is the 'cheap' oil that some of the less good Toyota dealers put in for cost savings (It's semi-synth); The fully-synth 0W20 is preferred on their newer cars and required to get anywhere near to their rated mpgs!

(We had that a while back where some dealers were using 5W30 in HSD-engined cars instead of 0W20, causing their mpgs to be noticeably worse; The tight tolerances in the newer cars really need 0W20! (Not like my old D4D... that's rated for 10W40!! Still getting mid-60's mpg tho' :P))

 

Thanks for the assistance! I've had the car for about 3 years and done about 35,000 miles in it. It has always had regular oil changes in line with the Toyota recommendations, all be it with 5W-30 oil since I've had it...

There is still a slight ticking noise when the engine is warm which is why I think it might be something to do with the Cam chain... It's coming from that side of the engine anyway. I'm still getting over what the car should be getting MPG wise (if driven sedately) and there aren't any other tell tale signs of chain problems such as misfiring etc. Just that blasted noise! I't only started making the noise within the last 2K miles or so.

I'm going to try and take it to a Toyota specialist in the next two days to see if they can have a listen to the engine to advise on what it may be. 

I will report back on what they suggest!

I wish my car did 60MPG haha! That's good going mate!

[Cyker]

Mine's been rattling more noticeable too lately - I thought it might be the valve tappets! - but only when I'm flooring it. Might be doing it at idle but I'd never hear it over the diesel clatter  . It's just had a service tho' and the rattle has quietened down a bit since it's had fresh clean new oil! (Used oil from a diesel is pretty gross - Black as midnight! Yeuch!)

Weirdly, we've had quite a number of people mentioning chain clatter recently; I replied to one in the RAV forum most recently. It's a weird co-incidence!

 Madasafish (our resident knower of yarisy things, and also bees?) mentioned in one of these other posts that the tensioner seals do wear over time so maybe it isn't 'tensioning' as much as it did when new, but should still be nothing to worry about if it's only intermittent.

If the chain was rattling all the time then that would suggest it isn't channelling enough oil pressure to do its job tho'!

 

[Madasafish]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

 

 Madasafish (our resident knower of yarisy things, and also bees?) mentioned in one of these other posts that the tensioner seals do wear over time so maybe it isn't 'tensioning' as much as it did when new, but should still be nothing to worry about if it's only intermittent.

 

Yes: I keep bees and help teach new beekeepers - but not an expert..- takes 50 years to become one.. I've only had 7!

 

Regarding timing chains, ANY issues with oil and oil filters are bad news.. chains - especially with twin cams and VVT - are under huge pressures and will wear very badly if neglected. I use fully synthetic oil in our D4D and change it and filter yearly despite v low miles as it is used for short journeys and cold starting - when oil pressure is low - is a major cause of wear. Synthetic oil is much better for cold starts.

 

[EliteAlex]

Took the car to see the garage guy today. He checked it over with his listening stick. Turns out the water pump is on its way out which is good, well, better news for my wallet. 

The garage had the part in stock so i just got them to do it. Amazingly they could do it today. Picked up the car this PM and the ticking noise is gone. Cost: £180 all in. 

Thank you all for your suggestions above. Glad this' been sorted now. 

All the best!