23 April 2006

[daktari]

As most of you are aware St Patricks day is on the 17th of this month. And i for one will be out with the lads and lasses celebrating with a pint or two of Guiness. followed by a traditional Irish ermmm...... kebab . Well i`ve got a good excuse, the missus is Irish.

But on the 23rd of April it will be St Georges day. How many of you including any Irish, Scots or Welsh will be celebrating that?

It`s a pretty good certainty that in many pubs and clubs up and down the country that this event will pass by virtually unnoticed and unanounced. Why is that? Is it because we`ve lost our national identity or our national pride.? Is it because the once proud flag of St george is now associated with the far left looney fringe like the National Front. Or is it that we`re frightened of upsetting ethnic minorities or afraid of being politically incorrect?

Or is it that great british disease.... Lethargy?

I`m curious and i`d welcome any discussion or ideas on the subject. If anyone can be bothered.

[Karma Supra]

Good point well made

[Caz SR]

It frustrates me that England do not celebrate St Georges day with the conviction of our neighbour's patron saint days.

But you have to consider, elsewhere have a national holiday in order to celebrate (look at France!!). Our government is far too concerned with being politically correct and creaming taxes off our pay to allow this to ever happen in England. Look how much of a battle it was to obtain an extra Bank Holiday for the jubilee celebrations - and that was for the Queen!

We always put a huge George Cross flag up in the window every year... but more national pride is shown when England are taking part in a football match. How many cars/windows etc do you see displaying the flag then?

[Karma Supra]

We always have a St Georges Flag on our flagpole, specificly for the reason that my dad is proud to be English, as opposed to British.

The only time it gets swapped for a Union Flag is when the football is on,

I do however have a big skull and cross bones flag I want to put up instead :(

[Bibbs]

St George .. hehe, the guy who never set foot on English soil? The Patron Saint of Portugal too? - just joking ..

I had a drink on Australia day .. I see no reason why you guys shouldn't either :)

[daktari]

Amazing.... Type 'scots' national emblem into google images and you get loads of thistles. 'Wales' you get tons of leeks, Daffs and Red dragons. 'Ireland' you get Shamrock, Harps and Guiness by the bucket load 'England'??????? 3 roses and one St George cross and a host of other countries emblems. Ridiculous. I`m getting cross now. I can feel a crusade coming on.

[Caz SR]

I had a drink on Australia day .. I see no reason why you guys shouldn't either :)

I actually really like the idea behind Australia day - it's a national holiday that all states observe in order to appreciate the things around them and what makes Australia a nice place. Over here, the day is commercial pants that Fosters et al use as a marketing ploy... but in it's context it's a very good idea.

However, this will never happen in England. Not just because a large percentage of inhabitants long to emigrate (I've spoken to at least 3 different people this month who are doing just that) to places such as Australia, but because not many people are actually proud to be English these days.

Look at how many English people are happy to go to the Walkabout and celebrate a day that's marked for another country? Why? Because they want to be there instead.

What does being English mean to us?

It's very sad, but there's far more to it than just being a nation of pessimists.

[daktari]

St George .. hehe, the guy who never set foot on English soil? The Patron Saint of Portugal too? - just joking ..

I had a drink on Australia day .. I see no reason why you guys shouldn't either :)

You`ve got a good point there. St George But even so he is our Patron Saint. And funnily enough i had a drink on Australia day too. Actually, i have a drink most days.

Sadly Caz is right. I think if more people were able to emigrate, The place would be nigh on empty.

I`m still proud to be English . We were a great nation and are still one of the better ones, Not sure for how much longer though. We have a great history of innovtion, Invention, Exploration, Trade and Conquest.

Although, Unfortunately we as a nation seem to have been sitting on our laurels for far too long and are rapidly in danger of becoming a laughing stock to the rest of the world. :ffs:

[Caz SR]

I`m still proud to be English . We were a great nation and are still one of the better ones, Not sure for how much longer though. We have a great history of innovtion, Invention, Exploration, Trade and Conquest.

But that's just it - you refer to those great things in the past tense... That's when we truely were 'Great Britian'.

Unfortunately, we're the ones being conquered now. Not just by people, but by idiotic acts/regulations/emigration laws/taxes/lack of discipline & respect.

Look how many posts we've had just on TOC this last week with an identical undercurrent... The poll in Gold is also indicative of just how people feel about England and the UK.

When my Nan & Grandad, whom I absolutely admire, in their 70s can turn round to me and say;

If we were your age, now, we wouldn't still be in this country.

I just don't see it improving in my lifetime, so would prefer to aim elsewhere.

[Kev Mc]

more national pride is shown when England are taking part in a football match. How many cars/windows etc do you see displaying the flag then?

That's because the nation is proud of the English team, who is seriously proud of St George? All I know about him (without reading that link) is that he killed all the dragons in England, does any1 actually believe that? I've been patriotic all my life & am still proud to be English, it's fading by the day though because the country is run by a bunch of :censor: s.

[daktari]

The past tense thing was intentional, Just so that people might actually think about it. and of course your absolutely on the button with what you say. It`s not just our country and its industries that are being given away/sold. It`s our identities. our civil liberties. And in extreme cases, lives.

If i think about the people who made this country what it once was, and the people who defended it when it was under threat and those that fought and gave their lives for our liberty. And what they would say if they were still here, to see what it has become and what is likely to happen in the not very distant future. It just makes me very sad and TBH i can feel nothing but animosity towards those who would sell our birthright for a fat bank balance or to further their careers or position.

more national pride is shown when England are taking part in a football match. How many cars/windows etc do you see displaying the flag then?

That's because the nation is proud of the English team, who is seriously proud of St George? All I know about him (without reading that link) is that he killed all the dragons in England, does any1 actually believe that? I've been patriotic all my life & am still proud to be English, it's fading by the day though because the country is run by a bunch of :censor: s.

He did leave one dragon behind....... i divorced her.

[Richard K]

All the saints should be celebrated.

When I was a kid flags were linked to sport:

England Flag = football/Rugby

Union jack = Atheletics GBR.

But as I grew up with the media's attitude/coverage of various (black, white, asian) political groups

it can cloud a young mind. and during that period

England Flag = National Front

Union jack = BNP

Jamaican/Pakistani/Indian Flag = dangerous people

I know it's not the case, but at the time they felt like warning signs rather than flags.

Richard K

P.S. My First Names German & second names derived from Ireland so I'll have a Saurkruat (sp?) in a guiness sauce please

[Bibbs]

That's because the nation is proud of the English team, who is seriously proud of St George? All I know about him (without reading that link) is that he killed all the dragons in England, does any1 actually believe that? I've been patriotic all my life & am still proud to be English, it's fading by the day though because the country is run by a bunch of :censor: s.

Erm, he never came to England .. and the dragon was in Lybia ..

[kimi]

i went out and celebrated st George's day last year

and i plan on doing the same this year.

i personaly dont show the england flag, as i get p***ed off with people saying

i'm doing it for the football,even when theres none going on

i might fly it this year though.

[Demonic Angel]

I remember, back when I lived in Rugby, that a pub displaying the St George cross for St Georges Day was asked to take it down in case it offended ethnic minorities....

Why would it offend anyone?

Its just political correctness gone mad....!!

We should celebrate our national day.... maybe none of us are proud to be British.... maybe "Great Britain" is no more.... the Irish, Scottish & Welsh think they're great (and so they should), but whats the difference about being English?

Personally, I've always seen myself as British rather than English, perhaps its people like me who are the problem?? Rich sees himself as English, even though his Mum is Scottish.

[daktari]

You have to admire the scots and welsh. Over the last couple of decades they have managed to rebuild their national identities. They`ve gained their own parliaments/assemblies. Their national languages are making a strong comeback, even being taught in their schools. Good for them i say.

Yes we`re all British but they have managed to do away with a lot of 'Englishness'.

I haven`t forgotten Northern Ireland, but until they have resolved their political problems they will remain British for the forseeable future.

[cfc1]

......

But on the 23rd of April it will be St Georges day. How many of you including any Irish, Scots or Welsh will be celebrating that?

It`s a pretty good certainty that in many pubs and clubs up and down the country that this event will pass by virtually unnoticed and unanounced. Why is that? Is it because we`ve lost our national identity

The only time it gets swapped for a Union Flag is when the football is on,

I honestly think thats a sign of loosing your national identity..... Why fly a BRITTISH flag when ENGLAND are playing.. for national identity purposes surely it should be the Cross of St. George?

I remember, back when I lived in Rugby, that a pub displaying the St George cross for St Georges Day was asked to take it down in case it offended ethnic minorities....

Ha anyone olse noticed that the kids have lost the school Easter Holiday? (in scotland we have) It is now called Spring Break.. political correctness? ethnic minorities?

Also, i won't be celebrating St. Georges day.. for obvious reasons (see you jimmy!)

[Jesus]

I celebrate it every year... it's my birthday. :D

[JAHill]

I celebrate it every year... it's my birthday. :D

Given your nickname, I'd have thought that'd be Christmas, you greedy scamp! ;)

Saints-Schmaints! So we want to celebrate a day for a Catholic Saint (downgraded by the Catholic church) in a largely protestant country? Y'see, this is why I'm not religious! ;) (Sorry Jesus! ;)) Just too much hassle.

Before I start on my "rant", I would like to point out that I consider myself British. I have a good deal of Scottish and Welsh blood in my family tree. So let me just put on Elgar's "Nimrod"...

People should however be proud of our country though, as there is a lot to be proud of... problem is, most of it is in the past. We got though some seriously sh*tty periods that would have caused a lot of people to roll over and give in (many did!)

This country (The UK, not just England) produces some of the most innovative, intelligent people in the world... We just can't seem to hold on to them as they go off to Japan, the US and the rest of Europe because they can't earn the money or respect they deserve in this country.(While the US DoD built the Internet, it was a British guy that gave it to the people, from CERN in France/Switzerland - it's on the border!) Our "proper" universities are the greatest in the world. Parents in other countries pay a great deal to send their children to them to receive the best possible education.

We are strangely placed on the map too and this reflects in our nature. If the North Sea hadn't been there, then things would be so very different. We might not even be here as a people. We are stuck, it seems, in between wanting to be seen as a "happening" European bunch of people with 24hr bars and metropolitan areas with fashionable shopping areas and restaraunts but we often end up with 24hr binge drinkers, pound shops and kebab houses.

Problem is... We're a pretty diverse bunch of people (race, religion, ethics, education) and this is down to the fact that we are a mongrel nation and have been for centuries. This means that we all want something different from our country to be proud of. Some want to be proud of our fighting spirit, others want to be proud of being white, others want to be proud of being tolerant. Some want to be proud of how many pints they can down on a friday night. There is no middle ground here, never was, never will be. Civil war and conflict prove this. Also we actually have a fairly good political system, unfortunately, we generally seem uninterested about politics come voting time and show little conviction in who we vote for, if we do. Then we like to complain that the party we voted for is sh*t.

Anyway, that's my little rant... Sorry if it rambles a bit... That's how my brain works - or doens't! ;)

I guess what I'm trying to say is find something to be proud of and celebrate that! If that means you want to celebrate it on one particular day then knock yerself out. If it involves flags then so be it. Whatever works for you! ;) If someone disagrees with you I'm sure they'll say something... or just complain in writing to the local rag. :D

[Leeky]

23rd of April?.....day my mobile contract expires....

[Karma Supra]

I honestly think thats a sign of loosing your national identity..... Why fly a BRITTISH flag when ENGLAND are playing.. for national identity purposes surely it should be the Cross of St. George?

Or because we don't want to be associated with footall scum come the world cup To me the Country is more then a bunch of over paid poofters kicking a bag of air about, unfortunately to most it seems the George cross is only flown during international sporting events.....

[Kev Mc]

That's because the nation is proud of the English team, who is seriously proud of St George? All I know about him (without reading that link) is that he killed all the dragons in England, does any1 actually believe that? I've been patriotic all my life & am still proud to be English, it's fading by the day though because the country is run by a bunch of :censor: s.

Erm, he never came to England .. and the dragon was in Lybia ..

Had a feeling I was frighteningly wrong, never bothered to research it but either way, why should I celebrate his day?

[Bibbs]

Had a feeling I was frighteningly wrong, never bothered to research it but either way, why should I celebrate his day?

Because he is the Patron Saint?

Basically he was an all round "good egg" and the crusaders (who were English) decided to use him as a bit of a hero/pin up while going off and beating up non-believers ..

[Karma Supra]

Plus we don't get many Dragons here...... unless it was king kong style... "traveler bloke bought it home and it went ape**** and starting destroying everything..."

[Boro Sera]

Maybe people are just embarrassed to celebrate St Georges day.

St George, as well as being the patron Saint of England, is the patron Saint of Syphillis sufferers.