Mark Up

[GIDDLEPIN]

As you know we have part-exe’d the Celica for an Aygo

We were told that because of the year and mileage it would be sent straight out to trade and not sold via the dealership…….WRONG!

Anne and I went in to take the new registration document sent to us and we saw the original Lucy-fer in prime position on the forecourt with a for sale sign in the window.

I bought it about 18 months ago for just under £6000 and it is now for sale at……….£7995 now reduced by £1000 to £6995 (Price reduction……after one day on the forecourt? )

Not a bad mark up from the £4200 they gave us

[GT4 BOOSTER]

Honest Britain at its best eh !!

[GIDDLEPIN]

Thing is I have been in the sales game and I understand what profits are about, we are very happy with the car and the price paid.

I'm just not happy with a B.S. excuse to tender a lower PX offer.

[Red Yaris 54]

I wonder if they will complete the necessary mechanical repair work required before they sell it at a greatly inflated profit.

I doubt it ;)

[GT4 BOOSTER]

What value does Parkers put down ???

Stealers always put a grand on top to cover any part ex .

i laugh at people who say "They gave me £ 2500 for my old motor " A grand of which is going straight onto the price of the car they are buying .

able.

[Karma Supra]

What needed doing to it??????

[Phoenix999]

It seems that all dealers are the same. My local Toyota rep gave me a little over £20000 against my Nissan 350Z and had it on their forecourt at £23995 a day or two later. A while later it was dropped to something like £22500 and it still did not sell Silly nuts clearly did not realise that it was not worth even what they gave me

[Johndcfc]

You know when car salesmen lie - there lips move.

[Leeky]

Well i dont know if its any consellation but i got my dealer good

Firstly i p/x'd my ford scorpio which i paid a grand for. During the course of ownership i blew the turbo up and knackered the brakes. I made them give me a grand for it against the aygo ;) on top of that i got them to throw air-con in for free.

I think they sold my scorpio to another dealer in the end for £400

Hope that makes you feel better that the dealers dont always win ;)

[Parts-King]

Firstly i p/x'd my ford scorpio which i paid a grand for. During the course of ownership i blew the turbo up and knackered the brakes. I made them give me a grand for it against the aygo on top of that i got them to throw air-con in for free.

You get nothing for nothing, and your air con doesnt come for free, there must have been some profit somewhere. The profit margin on selling a new Aygo is about £250, thats in, nothing more. What they are banking on is hitting a sales target and getting an extra wad of bonus for selling their quota

I know of no other business where you turnover £7K to make £250, there is more profit in selling a hamburger on a pound for pound basis!, sure its a tough business, but it's sales, and it's the same if your selling Aygo's or Hamburgers, you will have targets and profit margins to reach, Don't think you have stiffed somebody by getting the deal you wanted, if it couldnt have been done, you would still driving your dodgy Scorpio and throwing an anchor out of the window to stop :D:

Kingo

[don21]

Firstly i p/x'd my ford scorpio which i paid a grand for. During the course of ownership i blew the turbo up and knackered the brakes. I made them give me a grand for it against the aygo on top of that i got them to throw air-con in for free.

You get nothing for nothing, and your air con doesnt come for free, there must have been some profit somewhere. The profit margin on selling a new Aygo is about £250, thats in, nothing more. What they are banking on is hitting a sales target and getting an extra wad of bonus for selling their quota

I know of no other business where you turnover £7K to make £250, there is more profit in selling a hamburger on a pound for pound basis!, sure its a tough business, but it's sales, and it's the same if your selling Aygo's or Hamburgers, you will have targets and profit margins to reach, Don't think you have stiffed somebody by getting the deal you wanted, if it couldnt have been done, you would still driving your dodgy Scorpio and throwing an anchor out of the window to stop :D:

Kingo

Agreed.What most people do not understand is just how high the overheads are at a dealership.Plus they have have no concept of how the V.A.T. system is stacked up against car dealers.Most dealers need at least two grand over the bonnet of a used car to have any chance of making any money selling it on.Customers invariably want more for their part ex than it is worth and this has to be paid for somewhere.

I recently traded my corolla for a auris and a day later the corolla was on the forecourt for 2300 more than they had given me.However they have to advertise it sell it pay the salesman the vat man the recon costs their overheads.Now the thing is I had negotiated the best deal I could get and as far as I am concerned the second I have made the decision to deal and shook hands that is it.I knew what my trade in was booking at and quite honestly once the deal was done it makes no difference to me if they make 2 quid or 2 thousand quid on my car that is up to them.They are not in business to lose money or we would have no new cars to buy.

My advice is do the best deal you can and do not worry about your part ex.Move on and do not moan about someone trying to make a profit.

[T600]

That's all true Don, and sticker price is almost certainly a fair bit, perhaps about £1000, higher than the price they expect it to sell for.

But Les's point was that they told him that that was the best price they could do because it wasn't suitable to for their forecourt. In that case I'd be ****** off too.

Yes they have to make a crust, but lying to your valuable customers isn't on. I think you should have a word with them Les and suggest that given that they've now realised they can sell it locally, it's obviously worth more than they thought and they should give you another £500 - £1000 as compensation for their dubious practices.

[Demonic Angel]

When I part-exed my Yaris in, I had no misconceptions that they'd sell her on for a high profit... to be fair she was a pristine example of a low milage high spec Yaris, of course they will make their money on it...

I never found out how much exactly, only that they sold her to a well-known customer.

I don't think Les's gripe is the price but the fact they lied to get a cheaper part-ex price.... but then dealerships have never been known for their trustworthy antics.

I like to think that personally I got a good deal in the fact I got a £600 pack thrown in to seal the deal on my Aygo plus three years free servicing. Saying that I know they will recoup the money for that somehow, whether through my sale or someone elses... its just the way it all works.

Funny that we berate dealerships for selling at marked up prices and yet don't bat an eyelid at someone selling a Wii on eBay in the same highly inflated manner. To me, the latter is much worse!

[Red Yaris 54]

That's all true Don, and sticker price is almost certainly a fair bit, perhaps about £1000, higher than the price they expect it to sell for.

But Les's point was that they told him that that was the best price they could do because it wasn't suitable to for their forecourt. In that case I'd be ****** off too.

Yes they have to make a crust, but lying to your valuable customers isn't on. I think you should have a word with them Les and suggest that given that they've now realised they can sell it locally, it's obviously worth more than they thought and they should give you another £500 - £1000 as compensation for their dubious practices.

Whilst I totally agree......................I can see another squadron of pigs coming over the horizon ;)

[GIDDLEPIN]

My advice is do the best deal you can and do not worry about your part ex.Move on and do not moan about someone trying to make a profit.

Thing is I have been in the sales game and I understand what profits are about, we are very happy with the car and the price paid.

I'm just not happy with a B.S. excuse to tender a lower PX offer.

My first venture into the ownership of a Toyota goes back to 2001 with the company JCT600 when purchasing a Gen7 Celica, not the best of moves because within the eight months of owning the car it spent six weeks in the dealership being repaired for numerous faults, fortunately all under warranty.

Not to be deterred I exchanged this for my current car, a silver MR2 Roadster. During the period of ownership the dealer was taken over by John Roe Motor Sales of Grimsby in May 2004 and with the majority of staff transferring over it still retained the same friendly atmosphere.

My car has always been serviced at this depot and the service is second to none, the reception staff are always polite and professional the workshop personnel are knowledgeable and competent.

Regarding sales, my last two purchases were like dealing with an old friend rather than a salesman, unfortunately my latest acquisition has not given me the same feel good factor as it seems to have turned into typical production line car sales, instead of an individual, personalised experience.

[Leeky]

You get nothing for nothing, and your air con doesnt come for free, there must have been some profit somewhere. The profit margin on selling a new Aygo is about £250, thats in, nothing more. What they are banking on is hitting a sales target and getting an extra wad of bonus for selling their quota

I know of no other business where you turnover £7K to make £250, there is more profit in selling a hamburger on a pound for pound basis!, sure its a tough business, but it's sales, and it's the same if your selling Aygo's or Hamburgers, you will have targets and profit margins to reach, Don't think you have stiffed somebody by getting the deal you wanted, if it couldnt have been done, you would still driving your dodgy Scorpio and throwing an anchor out of the window to stop :D:

Kingo

Well im sorry to disappoint you but your wrong ;)

I got £1k px for a scorpio that i would have been lucky to get £400 for if i sold it myself. Also i DID get Air-con thrown in for free. The dealer even told me that he couldnt do the deal i wanted as he wouldnt be making any money on the car.

My answer was "fair enough, i'll go buy a citroen c1 then" and as i got up to leave he said he would let me have the deal even if it meant he wasnt going to make any money as he would rather see another aygo on the road than a c1.

I paid £6,995 for my Aygo (£7,995 minus £1k for my Scorpio) that is all. Free Air-Con and even Free mats

I used to be in the car game and i know exactly how it works. Thats how i know how to play dealers to get exactly what i want ;)

[Parts-King]

Well im sorry to disappoint you but your wrong ;)

Errr, wrong with what? You mean there is more money in an Aygo and nobody told me? whatever next

I got £1k px for a scorpio that i would have been lucky to get £400 for if i sold it myself. Also i DID get Air-con thrown in for free. The dealer even told me that he couldnt do the deal i wanted as he wouldnt be making any money on the car.

So they over allowed by £600 to get your business...so what, that happens with most transactions

My answer was "fair enough, i'll go buy a citroen c1 then" and as i got up to leave he said he would let me have the deal even if it meant he wasnt going to make any money as he would rather see another aygo on the road than a c1.

Fair comment, he wanted your business, £600 overallowance less £250 profit still makes the deal a loss of £350, unless he reaches a total sales target for registering say 30 or 40 cars that month, if you dont reach target, you have lost £350 end of.

I paid £6,995 for my Aygo (£7,995 minus £1k for my Scorpio) that is all. Free Air-Con and even Free Mats

As above

I used to be in the car game and i know exactly how it works. Thats how i know how to play dealers to get exactly what i want ;)

If you were in the sales game you would know how it all comes together, if the dealer was losing money, you wouldnt be driving your Aygo, you would still be in your Scorpio or a C1, I repeat my earlier ramblings, you get nothing for nothing and the deal was right for you AND the dealer, you didnt get one over on anybody, you got the deal you were happy with

LES: I agree your salesman should never have quoted you that nonsense about being too old to sell on, but I have seen similar incidents where the salesman knows the rules (say nothing older than 6 years, 60K to retail on) but when the deal is done, for the sales manager to see that the car is maybe a good one, and he makes an exception about selling it if he sees a profit for a nice car on the horizon. From all accounts your car was a nice one and somebody might have originally wanted to trade it out, but changed there mind and tried it on the forecourt first.

Kingo

[Leeky]

Errr, wrong with what? You mean there is more money in an Aygo and nobody told me? whatever next

I mean your wrong as in he made some money out of me somewhere.

End of the day he gave me the aygo at a loss, he didnt make any money selling me an aygo. His profit relied solely on selling the ford for more than my p/x value.

i got more for my scorpio than what it was worth and he did not get anywhere near 1k back for it in the end.

i dont care if he made target or not, nothing to do with me - didnt come out of my wallet

I have lost nothing and bought a brand new car for less than i should have done. He expected to sell my scorpio for more than i let him take it as a p/x - thats where he saw his profit margin. Unfortunately (for him) it didnt work out that way.

I was in the sales game for a year but i got out of it as my heart wasnt in the job. Just wasnt what i wanted to do.

Anyway not looking to get into an arguement over it, just explaining how my deal came about. And that when a dealer takes in a p/x its a risk they take as to whether they will claw back the money which doesnt always happen - like in this case. And i agree its rare for the dealer to come away out of pocket.

[Parts-King]

I mean your wrong as in he made some money out of me somewhere.

That's the point I'm making... He did make money out of you, somewhere. Maybe not on paper, but you got the deal YOU wanted and the dealer got the deal HE wanted. Your Ford Scrapio wouldnt have been sold for a profit, how could it? by your own admission they sold it on for a loss! Please don't think he has started to run a charity to give away brand spanking new Aygo's in exchange for :censor: old Scorpio's, in this scenario he lost money on paper, but the dealer was looking at the bigger picture, his whole month's bonus could have been riding on selling that one Aygo, so potentially, he could have made target.

don21: Great post, could'nt have put it better myself. There is a great misconception about profit in new cars, rarely does a dealer make a profit on new cars, fact. He makes money on hitting sales targets from the manufacturer, which in the current climate is very difficult, he also makes money on used cars, and to a lesser degree, on selling finance, warranties etc. You have to look at the whole picture and not just a small sum of it

And finally

I dont care if he made target or not, nothing to do with me - didnt come out of my wallet

Well you should do, you may well have got a bit more out of the deal had you known the full circumstances :D:

Kingo

[PinkMinkee]

I part ex'd my smart forfour brabus recently for a rav4 and they sold it on for £500 less than they gave me for the brabus, plus they had just dropped the rav4 by £1000. the brabus was out of warranty, had no tax, no breakdown cover and MOT due in May. granted it was a year younger than the rav4, but runs on superunleaded and is quite a few insurance bands higher than the rav.......now although we had to pay £1500 towards the price of the rav4, we get 12 mths warranty, breakdown cover and 6 mths tax and full MOT......methink me got the better deal ;)

[Leeky]

Well you should do, you may well have got a bit more out of the deal had you known the full circumstances :D:

I know dealers well enough to know when i've pushed as far as i can Im not some wet behind the ears kid...

Look, you dont know anything about what went on with this deal as you werent there. Maybe he did make his bonus, fair play to him if he did. But maybe he didnt ;)

And if he didnt then this proves my point. That dealer doesnt always win. They usually do but sometimes they dont - fact.

[Phoenix999]

Leeky.... which model of Aygo did you get in the end

[Red Yaris 54]

Well you should do, you may well have got a bit more out of the deal had you known the full circumstances :D:

And if he didnt then this proves my point. That dealer doesnt always win. They usually do but sometimes they dont - fact.

It's not the winning that is important....................It's the taking part ;) :P

I am pleased that you were mutually happy with the deal

[bjw]

When I trade a car in I expect it to have a £2000 mark up in the trade in price when sold on the forecourt!! in the past it used to be a lot less than that !!! As it has been said dealers make there bonus by hitting sales targets that is why sometimes you may get a very good deal and the dealer will make no money or even a loss on the car he sold you just to hit the sales target to get his bonus.

Also a Dealer will get your trade in underwritten and then may stick it on the forecourt for 3 weeks to see if there is any interest in it !! and if not sold he moves it on to the trade !!.

That his why it is important to screw the dealer down on price as much as possible they are a business and they are there to make money!!! they will not sell a car at a loss unless it suits them to and when you think about it your trade in will to have any repairs done , valetted ,perhaps MOT , mileage check etc, warranty put on it maybe new tyres it all adds up.

Also add to this cost of running the dealership (the parts manager huge salary etc) you perhaps understands the mark up

[Parts-King]

Also add to this cost of running the dealership (the parts manager huge salary etc) you perhaps understands the mark up

Oi :D:

I cover my own costs, sometimes, :D:

Kingo