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DGC1

Rav 4 Engine Swap

18 posts in this topic

Hi

we own a 5 door Rav with 180000 on the clock .Manual trans

I want to have an engine ready to replace the existing one which i will fit with a sequential injected lpg system.

So what engines will fit with minimal mods? thought maybe a 16valve or something turbo ?

Or are there any mods on the standard engine to release a few extra BHP .

As a footnote the gas systems work best with over 10.1 compressions .

Any ideas people

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Hi

we own a 5 door Rav with 180000 on the clock .Manual trans

I want to have an engine ready to replace the existing one which i will fit with a sequential injected lpg system.

So what engines will fit with minimal mods? thought maybe a 16valve or something turbo ?

Or are there any mods on the standard engine to release a few extra BHP .

As a footnote the gas systems work best with over 10.1 compressions .

Any ideas people

Bothy is yea man for that....He has two RAV 4.1 models transplanted with turbo engines... :o :o :o

Sure he will be on soon to update and inject his Scottish humour and advice.....

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The engine you have is a 3SFE 1998cc lump; naturally aspirated. There's not a lot you can do to this to increase power significantly. It can be modified to run on lpg - course you can put custom exhaust on and other tweaks.

On my Renault minibus, which has the 2.2 Espace engine, its fitted with lpg. It runs better on lpg cos its set up to run on lpg, but starts on petrol as many systems do. However, the engine runs hotter, and with the aluminium head, I've had some problems with the tappets closing up. I do all the maintenance on the engine myself, as no Renault dealer will touch the bus cos its got non-standard lpg fitted. Its a 1997 model, and I can get a LPG garage to look at the system, but as the lpg ecu takes its lead from the petrol ecu, any problems with the petrol ecu are outside their ability.

I had a Jaguar XJ40 running lpg and that was a nightmare as it had never been installed with the proper sized equipment/orifice/mixer.

Back to the 3SFE. This has the same block dimensions as the 3SGTE - a turbo engine designed as a race engine a few years back and fitted to various cars including the Celica and the MR2. It has a Yamaha head, and is quite different - whereas the 3SFE will output 127bhp, the turbo 3SGTE will output up to around 650bhp.

My plan with the 2 3 door 3SGTE engined cars I have is to use one to run well above 300bhp, and the other to remain a more tame 300bhp for the street.

At present the 1st car is running at approaching 300bhp; and has substantial mods - apart from the engine swap, there's upgraded suspension all round; upgraded front brakes; custom straight thru exhaust; and changed interior. As its a turbo, then compression is lower than the standard 3SFE, but we are running it at just short of 1 bar. It should take up to 1.7bar happily. The 3SGTE is set up to be able to handle this ok.

The RAV4 gearbox will handle over 300bhp, altho we had to stiffen the rear diff mount to stop it swivelling out its mount. A sway bar ordered from USA arrived on Friday which will hopefully help to control the rear trailing arm suspension.

This mod to a 3 door RAV has been done on about 4-5 other RAVs throughout the world - the main issues are the space available in the engine compartment. The new lump fits the gearbox, using a sports clutch, but some slight modification is needed to house the clutch cylinder and a slight change to the bulkhead which a hammer effects. The intake is at the rear of the engine and its here where the space is limited. So to change out the engine to a turbo, then add lpg to the system will be uncharted territory/modifications. Sure it can be done but depends on the space needed for the lpg stuff. I couldn't help you regarding the ecu side of things, but the lpg installer might help.

Another chap on this forum has the doughnut tank fitted flat in the rear.

The 3SFE is a reasonable engine, but I think its the head which restricts it.

Another mod you could do is to use the 3SGE n/a engine from an MR2 which will output more bhp and might be easier to do given more space (no turbo). Its a good engine. You can also pick up 3SFE engines fairly easily with low mileage.

Hope this helps - come back with more questions if you like.

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Another comment to add - from the guys at The Garage who did my conversions - the intake air temp might cause the lpg system problems if you attempt to use a turbo.

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Warning: off-topic ;)

Bothy, am I right in remembering that the Gen 4 (I think - 198x to 1989) Celica GT4 Turbo had the 3SGTE Engine?

I had a 1989 reg one of those and best car I ever had :toast: Boost gauge never went above 0.4 until I took off over a hump-backed bridge and landed hard on all 4 wheels (late for a plane) - went all the way to the stop after that :toot:

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Warning: off-topic ;)

Bothy, am I right in remembering that the Gen 4 (I think - 198x to 1989) Celica GT4 Turbo had the 3SGTE Engine?

I had a 1989 reg one of those and best car I ever had :toast: Boost gauge never went above 0.4 until I took off over a hump-backed bridge and landed hard on all 4 wheels (late for a plane) - went all the way to the stop after that :toot:

Ye - the 3SGTE was in the Celica around that time and was in the GT4. Also found its way into Jap MR2s which folk imported here - the MR2 had the n/a 3SGE I think in the UK.

I've taken off in the RAV a few times but really need the rear tightened up a bit as its a bit twitchy...short wheelbase accentuates the twitchiness.

The 3SGTE came in 3 versions I think - ST165 / ST185 / ST205

I'm sure someone from that forum will correct me if I'm wrong. The GT4 charge intercooler is able to take a twin turbo. One is enough for me at the moment until I get the 2nd on the road.

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I thought the GT4 of that era had 200BHP but I think it was really the ST165 - great car all the same - I would buy myself another one if I thought Mrs H wouldn't go mental at me.

First experience of Toyota service with that motor....

Exhaust started to blow so I took it to Mr T for an opinion, collected it later that day and found they replaced exhaust system under warranty - on a 4 year old car :eek: .

Had a fan fail for the a/c system - replaced the a/c rad as well as the fan coz' they found a cold spot on the rad :)

But a bit of plastic broke on the electric window and the wanted £200 for a new leccy window switch (no thanks!)

I know it is wrong sub-forum, but I still reckon this is THE iconic Celia Shape

250px-ST165_1988_black_mchoi.jpg

Not got a pic of my own one :crybaby:

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I thought the GT4 of that era had 200BHP but I think it was really the ST165 - great car all the same - I would buy myself another one if I thought Mrs H wouldn't go mental at me.

First experience of Toyota service with that motor....

Exhaust started to blow so I took it to Mr T for an opinion, collected it later that day and found they replaced exhaust system under warranty - on a 4 year old car :eek: .

Had a fan fail for the a/c system - replaced the a/c rad as well as the fan coz' they found a cold spot on the rad :)

But a bit of plastic broke on the electric window and the wanted £200 for a new leccy window switch (no thanks!)

I know it is wrong sub-forum, but I still reckon this is THE iconic Celia Shape

250px-ST165_1988_black_mchoi.jpg

Not got a pic of my own one :crybaby:

The ST205 can be taken up to around 650bhp. I've seen it written that it'll go further, but wi the RAV 3 door, improving from 127bhp up to 300 is pretty good!! I'd like to take one of them up past 350.

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The engine you have is a 3SFE 1998cc lump; naturally aspirated. There's not a lot you can do to this to increase power significantly. It can be modified to run on lpg - course you can put custom exhaust on and other tweaks.

On my Renault minibus, which has the 2.2 Espace engine, its fitted with lpg. It runs better on lpg cos its set up to run on lpg, but starts on petrol as many systems do. However, the engine runs hotter, and with the aluminium head, I've had some problems with the tappets closing up. I do all the maintenance on the engine myself, as no Renault dealer will touch the bus cos its got non-standard lpg fitted. Its a 1997 model, and I can get a LPG garage to look at the system, but as the lpg ecu takes its lead from the petrol ecu, any problems with the petrol ecu are outside their ability.

I had a Jaguar XJ40 running lpg and that was a nightmare as it had never been installed with the proper sized equipment/orifice/mixer.

Back to the 3SFE. This has the same block dimensions as the 3SGTE - a turbo engine designed as a race engine a few years back and fitted to various cars including the Celica and the MR2. It has a Yamaha head, and is quite different - whereas the 3SFE will output 127bhp, the turbo 3SGTE will output up to around 650bhp.

My plan with the 2 3 door 3SGTE engined cars I have is to use one to run well above 300bhp, and the other to remain a more tame 300bhp for the street.

At present the 1st car is running at approaching 300bhp; and has substantial mods - apart from the engine swap, there's upgraded suspension all round; upgraded front brakes; custom straight thru exhaust; and changed interior. As its a turbo, then compression is lower than the standard 3SFE, but we are running it at just short of 1 bar. It should take up to 1.7bar happily. The 3SGTE is set up to be able to handle this ok.

The RAV4 gearbox will handle over 300bhp, altho we had to stiffen the rear diff mount to stop it swivelling out its mount. A sway bar ordered from USA arrived on Friday which will hopefully help to control the rear trailing arm suspension.

This mod to a 3 door RAV has been done on about 4-5 other RAVs throughout the world - the main issues are the space available in the engine compartment. The new lump fits the gearbox, using a sports clutch, but some slight modification is needed to house the clutch cylinder and a slight change to the bulkhead which a hammer effects. The intake is at the rear of the engine and its here where the space is limited. So to change out the engine to a turbo, then add lpg to the system will be uncharted territory/modifications. Sure it can be done but depends on the space needed for the lpg stuff. I couldn't help you regarding the ecu side of things, but the lpg installer might help.

Another chap on this forum has the doughnut tank fitted flat in the rear.

The 3SFE is a reasonable engine, but I think its the head which restricts it.

Another mod you could do is to use the 3SGE n/a engine from an MR2 which will output more bhp and might be easier to do given more space (no turbo). Its a good engine. You can also pick up 3SFE engines fairly easily with low mileage.

Hope this helps - come back with more questions if you like.

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Hi

the gas side is no problem done loads of conversions and am an approved converter but the engine doesnt need to be 300hp just more efficient with a few more bhp from standard .

Any thoughts

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Hi

the gas side is no problem done loads of conversions and am an approved converter but the engine doesnt need to be 300hp just more efficient with a few more bhp from standard .

Any thoughts

If you are using the 3SFE, then I think you would be wasting your time/money. Its the top end which is restrictive, and the bottom end/ block is weak in comparison to the 3SGTE.

If you go for the 3SGE instead, it would be an easier swap, and I believe its a stronger engine with a better output. You may need to use the ECU and loom from a donor car too, and it keeps the engine as n/a. To compensate for the possible higher engine running temp, you could always fit a charge intercooler on the air intake to take the air temp down. The MR2 uses an air intercooler which is no use for a RAV - no space for the large bore hoses. You can pick up wrecked MR2s quite easily.

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Hi

the gas side is no problem done loads of conversions and am an approved converter but the engine doesnt need to be 300hp just more efficient with a few more bhp from standard .

Any thoughts

If you are using the 3SFE, then I think you would be wasting your time/money. Its the top end which is restrictive, and the bottom end/ block is weak in comparison to the 3SGTE.

If you go for the 3SGE instead, it would be an easier swap, and I believe its a stronger engine with a better output. You may need to use the ECU and loom from a donor car too, and it keeps the engine as n/a. To compensate for the possible higher engine running temp, you could always fit a charge intercooler on the air intake to take the air temp down. The MR2 uses an air intercooler which is no use for a RAV - no space for the large bore hoses. You can pick up wrecked MR2s quite easily.

Hi

ok sounds like the way to go whats that engine found in

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hi

ok what car uses this engine ,just the mr2 ? if so what years ?

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hi

ok what car uses this engine ,just the mr2 ? if so what years ?

I think it was fitted to both the Celica and the MR2. The Celica GT4 was a turbo job. Imported MR2s with turbo is the 3SGTE engine too.

The 3SGE will be found in cars around the early 90's I reckon. The Celica moved onto the VVTi engine I suppose around the time of the RAV VVTi. With both cars being mid-engined you have a high chance of picking up a good engine from a front end smash job.

For more info, you could try posting in the MR2 or Celica forii.

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I guess you can try to install a 1MZ-Fe V6. Over at toyota Nation i had a conversation with this dude who said it CAN be done. They tried it on a MR2, it dropped in fine. With Turbo. So much that their is a magazine that put the entire process. Check "How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems" The result were awesome. In fourth gear he just had to step in the throttle and it burned the tires. Of course it has a Turbo ANDa supercharger. I spoke with this dude and he answer was this, his name is QuadCamSix:

Sorry to keep responding to your threads with information your may already know. But, this may help other people in the future who are doing a swap in the RAV

The 1MZ 3MZ 3VZ 5VZ will all bolt up to your transmission (AT or MT) Three of your motor mounts will work just fine with any of these motors since the mounts are on the transmission. You will need to fabricate the 1 mount for the motor. You wont have to weld on the chassis at all but, you will have to make a adapter/bracket so the motor can bolt to the stock motor mount location. Some people say you can run with only three motor mounts, DO NOT DO THAT!

Now, there are some important differances between the V6 motors. The 1MZ & 3MZ were designed with FF drive in mind so, they have a few things that make the swap easier. The height of the MZ engines is also less so they can fit under the good of camry's n such.

The vz series engines (mostly in trucks) feature LONG runner intake manifolds to boost low end torque. The intake manifolds stick up about 4" higher than the manifolds on the MZ series motors. Because of this some swappers may have trouble with hood clearence and the stock intake. Contact me for an adapter plate that removes about 3" of height from the intake manifold setup. The VZ engines also tend to have oil pans with baffels and deeper sumps (to prevent oil starvation on steep inclines). These are nice to prevent starvation if your car can pull a lot of lateral G's too The problem with this is that the pans stick down so low that some cars may have problems with ground clearence. If you want to see what im talking about Ill post some pics of how low my 4WD 5VZ pan hangs under the car. BEWARE, the crank differs on the 5VZ a/t vs the m/t engine!

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95431

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Hi almc2242

Have a look at the power output of the lump you mention.

As an update, we're doing some mods to number 1 RAV to take it up to 400bhp. New ecu and stage 2 turbo amongst other stuff. This using the 3SGTE engine. The set up will offer potentially 500bhp but running 400 will maintain a semblance of reliability and moderation for road use. Its currently running just short of 300 we reckon.

The V6 lump will fit into an MR2 easier as theres more room in the back. The RAV engine bay is limited not for depth but for the width and length.

Since posting before, I've seen on the rav4world site that you can achieve a bit more from the 3SFE by replacing the stock ecu - or maybe using a piggyback system, to alter the pig rich mixture at higher revs. Dunno how this would last but if you only want a smallish increase, then its a cheaper option. Mind the 3SFE is 127bhp.

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Hi almc2242

Have a look at the power output of the lump you mention.

As an update, we're doing some mods to number 1 RAV to take it up to 400bhp. New ecu and stage 2 turbo amongst other stuff. This using the 3SGTE engine. The set up will offer potentially 500bhp but running 400 will maintain a semblance of reliability and moderation for road use. Its currently running just short of 300 we reckon.

The V6 lump will fit into an MR2 easier as theres more room in the back. The RAV engine bay is limited not for depth but for the width and length.

Since posting before, I've seen on the rav4world site that you can achieve a bit more from the 3SFE by replacing the stock ecu - or maybe using a piggyback system, to alter the pig rich mixture at higher revs. Dunno how this would last but if you only want a smallish increase, then its a cheaper option. Mind the 3SFE is 127bhp.

hi all, im new to this site, this topic has been quite interesting. i own a 2000 model rav4, the engine is a 3sfe i believe. my lad owns an mr2 but has wrecked the body, short temper im afraid lol! but it has a good engine 3SGE and i would love to put this in my rav. does anyone know if this engine would just drop in on the rav mounts, would it be best to use the rav clutch or the mr2 clutch? im pretty good with engines but ECUs look quite hard to change, or can i use the existing ECU? if not please advise step by step if possable. sorry im thick when it comes to ECUs, lol! hope to hear from someone soon.

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BothWell_buyer

mind ask your help?... i currently doing 3sgte st205 swap into my rav496 3 door..

1. the engine mount you using rav4 original or celica st205 ??

2. the bulkhead of the car? is it near the alternator area?..coz when i lift the engine, the alternator pulley hit the chassis and the tension pulley as well...can put some photo of your engine? like to see those photos of yours...

3. the clutch pump location in yours..

im appreciated for your help bro..now hitting the wall due to the alternator pulley...hopefully you can assist me..tqtq

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