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Dual Mass Flywheel Problem Makes Starter Motor Faulty?


RyanK
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I have some intermittent start problem on my 2004 d4d avensis 71k miles.

See http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84557

The garage guy said DMF problem can cause starter motor out of order. He experienced in same model to mine just months ago, so, he is quite sure my car has the same fault. I read lots of articles related to flywheel issues but my car has no such a similar symptom like judder when specific rpm or some noise(tic tic or tac tac).

My car can be started on when it is cold but when it warms up after drived, it cannot be started again. This is a typical starter motor problem, right? However, the garage guy said if flywheel fault still exists after the starter motor changed, this will affect the starter motor again according to his experiences. It makes a sense??? Anyway, he recommended me to change a dual mass flywheel. This work carries the change of clutch disk. So... the cost is huge. That's why I am hesitating to decide.

As I know, lots of avensis owners have an experience on flywheel problem. Did you have some start problem together when flywheel was faulty?

Any advice and experience welcome. Thanks.

Ryan

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the mechanic who is telling you that this fault is caused by a DMF fault is talking absolute bo***ks. The fault was caused by scratching on the armatuer shaft during prodction, the armatuer shaft is the main part of the starter motor.TLT at the foot of my profile means that I am a toyota licenced technician registered with toyota great britain. this fault has never had to be rectified by the replacement of the DMF or any of the clutch parts. I very much hope this helps you..

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Thanks again for your advice, goodison.

I have decided to change the starter motor. I saw it on eBay and the price is about 130 GBP(inc. postage). Is it good offer? It is brand new and 12mths warranty.

Changing the starter motor is difficult work? How much do you think the labor fee is?

I will post the result after changing.

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the mechanic who is telling you that this fault is caused by a DMF fault is talking absolute bo***ks. The fault was caused by scratching on the armatuer shaft during prodction, the armatuer shaft is the main part of the starter motor.TLT at the foot of my profile means that I am a toyota licenced technician registered with toyota great britain. this fault has never had to be rectified by the replacement of the DMF or any of the clutch parts. I very much hope this helps you..

I think the starter motor of my car is faulty as goodison told.

However, I heard a same thing from the RAC guy today. Flywheel problems can make starter motor faulty. I really wish my vehicle has only problem of starter motor. I have asked to inspect the flywheel. I will know soon.

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To RyanK,

Used to work for firm that had hundreds of RED TRANSITS amongst other all RED VEHICLES. These had terrible problems with STARTER MOTORS FAILING when first released. Some bright spark in company noticed flywheel moved when fitting another starter to same vehicle, whipped G/Box out. You guessed it not only was flywheel moving very slightly on its mounting from side to side like a arm on a clock which it is meant to do. But was also rocking & knocking when held by hand at the 6 & 12 o'clock position, allmost like a worn front wheel bearing. Thus destroying starter motor, even worse plate through which flywheel bolts (TORX-BOLTS) went to bolt F/Wheel to crank used to sometimes lock up out of alignment thus blocking access to bolts, so welding torch out & burn plate out to access bolts.

So I would not loose faith with Toyota as other manufacturers have the exact same problems to, only difference is if your Toyota plays up price you have to pay for parts is beyond belief compared to other brands. With the exception of Japanese cars which all parts prices appear beyond belief sometimes.

Don't panic, forum user Goodison is on the ball. He is pointing you in right direction.

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  • 1 month later...
the mechanic who is telling you that this fault is caused by a DMF fault is talking absolute bo***ks. The fault was caused by scratching on the armatuer shaft during prodction, the armatuer shaft is the main part of the starter motor.TLT at the foot of my profile means that I am a toyota licenced technician registered with toyota great britain. this fault has never had to be rectified by the replacement of the DMF or any of the clutch parts. I very much hope this helps you..

I think the starter motor of my car is faulty as goodison told.

However, I heard a same thing from the RAC guy today. Flywheel problems can make starter motor faulty. I really wish my vehicle has only problem of starter motor. I have asked to inspect the flywheel. I will know soon.

RyanK

Did you get the problem sorted? Was the starter motor the only issue? Reason I ask is that my D-4D Avensis is showing identical symptoms.

Also, do you have a link to the starter motor on eBay? Think I may need to have a look

Thanks

Amc1902

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  • 5 months later...
the mechanic who is telling you that this fault is caused by a DMF fault is talking absolute bo***ks. The fault was caused by scratching on the armatuer shaft during prodction, the armatuer shaft is the main part of the starter motor.TLT at the foot of my profile means that I am a toyota licenced technician registered with toyota great britain. this fault has never had to be rectified by the replacement of the DMF or any of the clutch parts. I very much hope this helps you..

To goodison

Had a mondeo TDCi 2002 model. Starter motor failed. Replaced at £120. Ran ok for 3 weeks then new starter motor failed. Removed starter motor to find it full of metal filings. Spoke to a Ford technician who said this is common on Mondeos and Transits. It is caused by the failure of the dual mass flywheel. The two halves of the flywheel come into contact with each other and this causes the metal filings. These then attach themselves to the starter motor due to the field magnets. Once the gap between the field magnets and the armature is bridged, the starter locks itself solid when powered up.

Cleaned out and refitted the starter motor and traded mondeo in for an Avensis.

Just thought I would give you my view on things as I thought your last reply was a little 'strong'.

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think you will find that when TOYOTA DMF give up they DO NOT affect the starter motor, The advice given by Goodison was spot on as this is not a Ford forum, the answer given was for a toyota fault with a toyota fix

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think you will find that when TOYOTA DMF give up they DO NOT affect the starter motor, The advice given by Goodison was spot on as this is not a Ford forum, the answer given was for a toyota fault with a toyota fix

Toyota DMF's must be different from everyone elses then. Debris from a failing DMF causes starter motor problems with other manufacturers, maybe not on Toyota?

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yeh never had one yet that has been caused by a Dmf FAILURE. I have no doubt that other manufacturers have problems with DMF, but each manufacturer has specific symtoms and failures with components. Toyota have never had a warranty claim to replace a starter motor due to a Dmf failure

However we at TGB do not look at these situations lightly, firstly the information disclosed by Goodison was stricktly private and confidential between TGB and the dealer network. this is ALL we look for on these sites. You will notice Goodison no longer posts!!!!

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yeh never had one yet that has been caused by a Dmf FAILURE. I have no doubt that other manufacturers have problems with DMF, but each manufacturer has specific symtoms and failures with components. Toyota have never had a warranty claim to replace a starter motor due to a Dmf failure

However we at TGB do not look at these situations lightly, firstly the information disclosed by Goodison was stricktly private and confidential between TGB and the dealer network. this is ALL we look for on these sites. You will notice Goodison no longer posts!!!!

I replaced the dmf on my 02 avensis d4d last week , the starter also developed a problem during dmf deterioration . the starter was full of debrit from the dmf . I stripped the starter and washed it out which rectified the problem ( starter was not maintaining engagement with the ring gear whilst turning the engine ) . p.s i fitted a solid flywheel conversion .

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yeh never had one yet that has been caused by a Dmf FAILURE. I have no doubt that other manufacturers have problems with DMF, but each manufacturer has specific symtoms and failures with components. Toyota have never had a warranty claim to replace a starter motor due to a Dmf failure

However we at TGB do not look at these situations lightly, firstly the information disclosed by Goodison was stricktly private and confidential between TGB and the dealer network. this is ALL we look for on these sites. You will notice Goodison no longer posts!!!!

I replaced the dmf on my 02 avensis d4d last week , the starter also developed a problem during dmf deterioration . the starter was full of debrit from the dmf . I stripped the starter and washed it out which rectified the problem ( starter was not maintaining engagement with the ring gear whilst turning the engine ) . p.s i fitted a solid flywheel conversion .

To RyanK if he's still watching the posts. I think your best bet is to have a look at the starter when you take it off, if the pinion housing is full of crud then maybe you do have some DMF problems. If it's clear of crud, probably just the starter at fault.

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To TGB,

PRISON?? What point would you be making just out of interest in regards to DMFs & Starter-Motor. Are you suggesting no connection between the two objects failing or confirming absolutely no connection between the two if problems arise. Have no idea of Goodison's background ( he may or may not be an employee of Toyota) just a hypothetical question, may we assume if a person works for Toyota that they are discourged from commenting on these forums or they are absolutely not aloud to voice an opinion of any kind.

Regards, Beagh.

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