D4d Failure - Does This Sound Right?

[Marky90125]

Hi,

I bought an Avensis Estate D4D 2.2 diesel with 99k on the clock. After about 10k miles it showed classic head gasket symtoms and the starter motor kept failing so I put it in to a garage (not Toyota) for repair. The guy stripped the top of the engine down and said that the head had a crack in it, he also said that Toyota were quoting £500 for a new starter motor; he suggested that it might be cheaper to get a reconditioned engine fitted. I shopped around and found a company in Wolverhampton who offered to supply and fit for £1500, I checked them out on the net and could only find positive feedback for their part supplies on an auction site. They seemed very professional and claimed that their engines were supplied directly from Japan.

Once they had my car it became obvious that the 'about 5 days work' quote was not going to happen, in fact it was 6 weeks before I got my car back during which time I was lied to on a number of occasions about progress. It was almost laughable when I visited the premises having been told that the replacement engine had been fitted and was on test, to find that there was in fact no engine in the car. I have to say that when I visited the premises, it looked a very clean and professional setup and felt that I had just been unlucky. The story eventually got to the point where I threatened them with legal action and I got my car back. The guy said he didn't have the current engine management software so I should visit Toyota to get this set up - after 6 weeks of waiting and £600 in car hire, I just wanted my car back.

It drove ok, a little high on MPG and it totally cut out twice, then it settled down and seemed fine. After three weeks and 1000 miles the engine started making dreadful scraping and knocking noises in time wth the engine revolutions, the engine light flickered on and I stopped the car. While I waited for recovery, I checked the water level which was fine and the oil dip stick which showed the level full and the oil looked in good condition (still quite clear). At no time did the car overheat or blow steam or smoke etc.

The car was recovered to the engine supplier under warranty and I shared the symptoms with them.

After a couple of days (of me chasing them for a response) I was told that the turbo had failed, the oil had been burnt and this had damaged the engine. They stated that they would pay for the engine repair but I would have to pay for the new turbo. It did strike me odd that they were offering to pay for the engine repairs if they were blaming the engine damage on a fault with the turbo, which was outside the warranty.

All of the consumer stuff I will deal with but does anyone on the forum have a view regarding the statement that the turbo failed, burned the oil and that this caused the engine damage particularly when the car is still full of oil?

Thanks in advance

Mark

[OldSkoO1]

There are a few mechanics or specialists on here that can offer a lot better advice than me

If you didn't get a massive plume of white smoke when the turbo failed then it is likely that the inlet seal failed (you would still get smoke) and this would let partially burn't oil through into the inlet / intercooler and can feed it into the engine! Luckily it sounds like your engine didn't burn it and with the un-metered supply it didn't do the dredded run away which basically means the engine just runs away and eats up all its oil and with friction just siezes up and is completely dead.

Hopefully it retained oil pressure so just a few parts to replace. And hopefully it didn't effect the camshaft or bottom end of the block. Might be some crap in the cat which might smoke for a while when fixed as it burns out the oil.

At this point i can't say whether them fixing the turbo up to the intercooler and engine inlet was a dodgy job and they bust it which makes them feel guilty. Granted your turbo could have been on the way out anyway, still i am not experienced enough to make a judgement on that or whether their work could have caused it.

[Marky90125]

Thanks for that, from what you say it sounds like in principle they might be on the level with me, like all of these issues for the mechanically unknowing like me you have to just go with it and hope your garage of choice is being straight. By the time I've done throwing money at this, it might have been cheaper to give it to a Toyota main agent (£££) to sort out.

Mark

[jamesholden]

claimed that their engines were supplied directly from Japan.

I very much doubt it, Toyota diesel engines for the european market are made in Wales so why would they bother sourcing them from Japan?

[cmia]

This is why I hate "supply and fit engines"

They also like to keep your old engine, to "refurbish" it.

you should have just bught an engine from scrappers (they all offer start up warranty)

and get your local mech guy to install it.

[Beagh1958]

To Marky90125,

Sorry for your troubles, your not going to like my viewpoint. I had assumed Avensis to be made in the UK, Derbyshire in fact ? I never knew engine plant to be in Wales (presumed built at Derby plant), but you learn something new every day. Cannot see the financial sence in dealing with company who source engines from Japan especially from Power seller from _ _ _ _ ? I think your going to be banging your head against a brick wall, if Toyota prices are to high, why not use local Toyota specialist who if need be could have put engine out to local engineering firm for repair if unable to carry out complete work. Try your Yellow Pages, for instance i use Middlesex Rebores who don't fit second hand engines but repair your original engine with brand new components & carry out out all the required machining that this requires. You must have local company that carries out the same work?

I would assume the onus is on them to proof to you that your seized engine that is still full of oil has a duff TURBO. I think your going to be stepping carefully through a legal minefield. Why did your mechanic not propose the above option (engineering firm) rather than just swapping engine.

Sorry again, more questions than answers from me to you. I recently made a posting to Forum User in regards to a new turbo for his vehicle, if i can find posting i will post website for you.

Regards, Beagh.

[Beagh1958]

To Marky90125,

Go to www.btnturbo.com for any required turbo information.

Regards, Beagh.

[JohnYossarian]

To Marky90125,

Sorry for your troubles, your not going to like my viewpoint. I had assumed Avensis to be made in the UK, Derbyshire in fact ? I never knew engine plant to be in Wales (presumed built at Derby plant), but you learn something new every day. Cannot see the financial sence in dealing with company who source engines from Japan especially from Power seller from _ _ _ _ ? I think your going to be banging your head against a brick wall, if Toyota prices are to high, why not use local Toyota specialist who if need be could have put engine out to local engineering firm for repair if unable to carry out complete work. Try your Yellow Pages, for instance i use Middlesex Rebores who don't fit second hand engines but repair your original engine with brand new components & carry out out all the required machining that this requires. You must have local company that carries out the same work?

I would assume the onus is on them to proof to you that your seized engine that is still full of oil has a duff TURBO. I think your going to be stepping carefully through a legal minefield. Why did your mechanic not propose the above option (engineering firm) rather than just swapping engine.

Sorry again, more questions than answers from me to you. I recently made a posting to Forum User in regards to a new turbo for his vehicle, if i can find posting i will post website for you.

Regards, Beagh.

My impression has always been that the current engines (starting from 2003 onwards) were made in Poland. In Deeside they assemble cars but I do know of any engine building site in the area.

I hope your problem will be resolved.

Cheers,

Jordan

[jamesholden]

To Marky90125,

Sorry for your troubles, your not going to like my viewpoint. I had assumed Avensis to be made in the UK, Derbyshire in fact ? I never knew engine plant to be in Wales (presumed built at Derby plant), but you learn something new every day. Cannot see the financial sence in dealing with company who source engines from Japan especially from Power seller from _ _ _ _ ? I think your going to be banging your head against a brick wall, if Toyota prices are to high, why not use local Toyota specialist who if need be could have put engine out to local engineering firm for repair if unable to carry out complete work. Try your Yellow Pages, for instance i use Middlesex Rebores who don't fit second hand engines but repair your original engine with brand new components & carry out out all the required machining that this requires. You must have local company that carries out the same work?

I would assume the onus is on them to proof to you that your seized engine that is still full of oil has a duff TURBO. I think your going to be stepping carefully through a legal minefield. Why did your mechanic not propose the above option (engineering firm) rather than just swapping engine.

Sorry again, more questions than answers from me to you. I recently made a posting to Forum User in regards to a new turbo for his vehicle, if i can find posting i will post website for you.

Regards, Beagh.

My impression has always been that the current engines (starting from 2003 onwards) were made in Poland. In Deeside they assemble cars but I do know of any engine building site in the area.

I hope your problem will be resolved.

Cheers,

Jordan

Toyota don't assemble cars in Desside, they assemble engines. Toyota's UK car manufacturing plant in in Burnaston, Derbyshire.

[Marky90125]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, when you are up against something like this with a tight budget it's easy to make a mistake. It all sounded pretty legitimate and having seen plenty of 'bad news blogs' about poor suppliers, this one seemed like a safe bet. (http://uk-parts.net/default.aspx).

I'll post the result of this latest visit to the garage when I get my car back. From past experience, it might be some time!

Mark

[Beagh1958]

To Marky90125,

Sorry for what may have appeared a terse reply. I was trying to keep strictly to the problem you have in hand, specifically the problem you now have with TURBO. Company details i posted are for one of the largest importers of Turbo makes into the UK, they are not a small outfit who just rebuild Turbo's. My idea was if you could gain access to your Turbo & forward it to them by some means & let them verify if indeed it has a fault. This would be some ammo for you to take - on company who supplied Engine. As you suggest this may turn out to be a long drawn out process, but any engineering report that you can gain can only be to your benefit. Also if you have some sort of breakdown cover, you may be able to apoint mechanical engineer to inspect engine, these people know engines inside out & any trace of damage to engine will lead to a specific reason for failure, which in turn produces more paperwork for you to take this company on.

Good Luck, Beagh.

[2912pwil]

Yup, 2.2 Diesel built in Poland as far as I know...

see

http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=2768

Cheers!

[Aamir2892]

What year is your car?

[igormus]

Hi,

I bought an Avensis Estate D4D 2.2 diesel with 99k on the clock. After about 10k miles it showed classic head gasket symtoms and the starter motor kept failing so I put it in to a garage (not Toyota) for repair. The guy stripped the top of the engine down and said that the head had a crack in it, he also said that Toyota were quoting £500 for a new starter motor; he suggested that it might be cheaper to get a reconditioned engine fitted. I shopped around and found a company in Wolverhampton who offered to supply and fit for £1500, I checked them out on the net and could only find positive feedback for their part supplies on an auction site. They seemed very professional and claimed that their engines were supplied directly from Japan.

Once they had my car it became obvious that the 'about 5 days work' quote was not going to happen, in fact it was 6 weeks before I got my car back during which time I was lied to on a number of occasions about progress. It was almost laughable when I visited the premises having been told that the replacement engine had been fitted and was on test, to find that there was in fact no engine in the car. I have to say that when I visited the premises, it looked a very clean and professional setup and felt that I had just been unlucky. The story eventually got to the point where I threatened them with legal action and I got my car back. The guy said he didn't have the current engine management software so I should visit Toyota to get this set up - after 6 weeks of waiting and £600 in car hire, I just wanted my car back.

It drove ok, a little high on MPG and it totally cut out twice, then it settled down and seemed fine. After three weeks and 1000 miles the engine started making dreadful scraping and knocking noises in time wth the engine revolutions, the engine light flickered on and I stopped the car. While I waited for recovery, I checked the water level which was fine and the oil dip stick which showed the level full and the oil looked in good condition (still quite clear). At no time did the car overheat or blow steam or smoke etc.

The car was recovered to the engine supplier under warranty and I shared the symptoms with them.

After a couple of days (of me chasing them for a response) I was told that the turbo had failed, the oil had been burnt and this had damaged the engine. They stated that they would pay for the engine repair but I would have to pay for the new turbo. It did strike me odd that they were offering to pay for the engine repairs if they were blaming the engine damage on a fault with the turbo, which was outside the warranty.

All of the consumer stuff I will deal with but does anyone on the forum have a view regarding the statement that the turbo failed, burned the oil and that this caused the engine damage particularly when the car is still full of oil?

Thanks in advance

Mark

Mark / Igor

Hi

I feel your pain

Have you been checking with oil level during these 1000 miles stated by you after engine repair? WHether the level was in limits?

In case of a turbo fault -- you had to feel power loss -- correct? but you did not feel it, as i deem and not mistaken. It is correct that the turbo eats the oil in case the seal is worn down, but in such a way you had to observe a smoke but you did not. Normally the more bearing wear down the fastly seal worn down due to the shaft vibration. It looks strange they are ready to overhaul the engine for their account, even in case the turbo has been found as faulty (???). I deem they feel own preliminary made mistake during engiine assembly but do not state it to you for understood reasons. But in case the engine is still with oil that is in limits then it is not a turbo fault but the result of engine assembly in "correct " order. No more words -- but pay attention on turbo - i would buy a repair kit with consumable parts -- it would be cheapper than to pay for new one. Cheers/Igor + up-date developments

[Beagh1958]

To Marky90125,

Just enquiring as to latest position, still stalemate or any progress, please keep us posted. As you may assume from my initial answer i do not hold these engine replacement companies in high regard. I should imagine some good companies around, not to right them all off.

Good Luck, Beagh.

[Marky90125]

I thought I would update the story (saga).

I collected the car yesterday after another two and a bit weeks in the garage (and car hire). UK Parts claim that the oil flow from the turbo was blocked and it was that which caused the engine damage. They have 'replaced the turbo' at a cost of £690 and put another reconditioned engine in.

Cost of the whole exercise so far is around £3000 including car hire (£1465 for the first engine)

Is the car ok now? NO

Engine has very little power until around 3000 revs so I have to change down to 3rd or 2nd to get up any incline - I assume the turbo is coming in too late

The air conditioning has stopped working

The engine will not tick over when first started, it keeps stalling

The steering wheel is set 1/8 of a turn off centre.

The service warning light is on (it was first time they 'repaired' it), the garage said that they don't have the right engine management software for this engine so I should take it to Toyota to let them sort it out. (Honestly, they did say this!) Won't Toyota be pleased.

I should return the car to UK Parts to sort these out I guess, but I'm inclined to let a proper mechanic sort it out and send UK Parts the bill.

Have I learned an important lesson here? Oh yes indeed.

If anyone out there is thinking about having a cheap recon fitted, I suggest you have a good look at who you are buying it from first.

Regards

Mark

[moonstone mart]

I thought I would update the story (saga).

I collected the car yesterday after another two and a bit weeks in the garage (and car hire). UK Parts claim that the oil flow from the turbo was blocked and it was that which caused the engine damage. They have 'replaced the turbo' at a cost of £690 and put another reconditioned engine in.

Cost of the whole exercise so far is around £3000 including car hire (£1465 for the first engine)

Is the car ok now? NO

Engine has very little power until around 3000 revs so I have to change down to 3rd or 2nd to get up any incline - I assume the turbo is coming in too late (POSS EGR VALVE FAULTY/STICKING)

The air conditioning has stopped working (THEY MAY NOT HAVE REGASSED THE A/C SYSTEM OR DAMAGED SOMETHING DURING REMOVING/REFITTING ENGINE)

The engine will not tick over when first started, it keeps stalling (AGAIN POSS EGR FAULT/INJECTOR/ECU UPDATE)

The steering wheel is set 1/8 of a turn off centre. (SUBFRAME REMOVED TO REMOVE ENGINE/GEARBOX - THEY SHOULD HAVE CHECKED/SET GEOMETRY WHEN ALL FITTED)

The service warning light is on (it was first time they 'repaired' it), the garage said that they don't have the right engine management software for this engine so I should take it to Toyota to let them sort it out. (Honestly, they did say this!) Won't Toyota be pleased. (IF ITS THE 'SERVICE DUE' LIGHT THEN THAT IS TURNED OFF WITHOUT ANY EQUIPMENT ;) , IF ITS THE ENGINE WARNING LIGHT THEN TAKE IT TO A DEALERSHIP FOR THEM TO READ THE FAULTS - IM SURE THERE WILL BE PLENTY AFTER READING WHAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH WITH THEM!)

I should return the car to UK Parts to sort these out I guess, but I'm inclined to let a proper mechanic sort it out and send UK Parts the bill.

Have I learned an important lesson here? Oh yes indeed.

If anyone out there is thinking about having a cheap recon fitted, I suggest you have a good look at who you are buying it from first.

Regards

Mark

Sounds like you have had a pretty bad and expensive experience.

Mart.

[Aamir2892]

Always a problem after you put a different engine from the one the car was made with. Car will never be the same to drive. I had my engine changed on my corolla and i could tell the difference.

[Thesepeoplemakemesick]

Marky90125 - I bought a "recon" engine fairly recently, I have not been able to drive the car for months. Other "peripheral" parts have to date been blamed for problems - which is b0110x - the car had only done 30,000 miles but now drives lilke a 200,000 - when it's managed to hold it's oil for more than 10 miles that is. You have my sympathy. I am new to this forum posting lark - so get in touch privately if you can!?

[Red diesel]

Hard luck there Marky - sounds like a horriably messy business - you have my sympathys (not that its much use to you when all you want is a properly working car). It really sounds like a very sorry episode.

Hopefully you will eventually come to some sort of satisfactory outcome.

Red Diesel

[Marky90125]

Another page turned on this sorry tale, I had the air con recharged yesterday and it still doesn't work. The button lights up on the dash, but its not doing any cooling. Also, when it was working and I turned it on with the engine ticking over, the revs dropped a bit, it doesn't do that any more, also the fan inside the car sounds like its belting roung but hardly any puff coming out. Have checked the air con pipes as they feed in and out of the bulkhead and they are both the same temperature. Anyone got any ideas what my friends at UK Parts might have done or not done when they fitted the recon engine to stop it from working.

Also, is it possible to tell whether a new turbo was fitted which they claimed, are they serial numbered and are these recorded when they are originally fitted in the Toyota factory?

Thanks

Mark

[igormus]

Another page turned on this sorry tale, I had the air con recharged yesterday and it still doesn't work. The button lights up on the dash, but its not doing any cooling. Also, when it was working and I turned it on with the engine ticking over, the revs dropped a bit, it doesn't do that any more, also the fan inside the car sounds like its belting roung but hardly any puff coming out. Have checked the air con pipes as they feed in and out of the bulkhead and they are both the same temperature. Anyone got any ideas what my friends at UK Parts might have done or not done when they fitted the recon engine to stop it from working.

Also, is it possible to tell whether a new turbo was fitted which they claimed, are they serial numbered and are these recorded when they are originally fitted in the Toyota factory?

Thanks

Mark

Mark

Hi

In case the air con does not work after been regased -- theh only problems are: fault with compressor or thermo expansion valve fault; thermo expansion impulse tube got leaked; salon thermometre fault; outside themperature sensor fault; driving clutch (for compressor) fault.

QUOTE:

Have checked the air con pipes as they feed in and out of the bulkhead and they are both the same temperature.

UNQUOTE:

The above quote reasons are typed above.

Cheers/Igor

[tczwoju]

I thought I would update the story (saga).

I collected the car yesterday after another two and a bit weeks in the garage (and car hire). UK Parts claim that the oil flow from the turbo was blocked and it was that which caused the engine damage. They have 'replaced the turbo' at a cost of £690 and put another reconditioned engine in.

Cost of the whole exercise so far is around £3000 including car hire (£1465 for the first engine)

Is the car ok now? NO

Engine has very little power until around 3000 revs so I have to change down to 3rd or 2nd to get up any incline - I assume the turbo is coming in too late

The air conditioning has stopped working

The engine will not tick over when first started, it keeps stalling

The steering wheel is set 1/8 of a turn off centre.

The service warning light is on (it was first time they 'repaired' it), the garage said that they don't have the right engine management software for this engine so I should take it to Toyota to let them sort it out. (Honestly, they did say this!) Won't Toyota be pleased.

I should return the car to UK Parts to sort these out I guess, but I'm inclined to let a proper mechanic sort it out and send UK Parts the bill.

Have I learned an important lesson here? Oh yes indeed.

If anyone out there is thinking about having a cheap recon fitted, I suggest you have a good look at who you are buying it from first.

Regards

Mark

Hi Mark,

I had engine change recently(2 VVTI) and I have to say I was going to buy a reconditioned one but the people on car breakers told me to not. SO I did buy second hand with 3 months warranty and 18 miles on the clock. To fit this engine for my local garage took them about a 15 hours in total but spread on about 5 days work. Sounds very quickly compare to your experience mate.

Engine is working much better than my old one (108000 miles) and I’m getting better mpg.

I fully support you because it is one big unknown when you buying spare engine. I bought mine from Dewsbury auto salvage (www.dewsburyautosalvage.com) and I can say it running well. I have got some minor issues with airconn but my local garage doing everything to solve the problem which has occurred after engine replacement.

The company I bought the engine offered me to fit my engine but they were from far away so I choose local garage and this was right decision I think.

Hope you will soon enjoy driving Toyota mate.

Good luck

Wojciech

[just miko]

I thought I would update the story (saga).

I collected the car yesterday after another two and a bit weeks in the garage (and car hire). UK Parts claim that the oil flow from the turbo was blocked and it was that which caused the engine damage. They have 'replaced the turbo' at a cost of £690 and put another reconditioned engine in.

Cost of the whole exercise so far is around £3000 including car hire (£1465 for the first engine)

Is the car ok now? NO

Engine has very little power until around 3000 revs so I have to change down to 3rd or 2nd to get up any incline - I assume the turbo is coming in too late

The air conditioning has stopped working

The engine will not tick over when first started, it keeps stalling

The steering wheel is set 1/8 of a turn off centre.

The service warning light is on (it was first time they 'repaired' it), the garage said that they don't have the right engine management software for this engine so I should take it to Toyota to let them sort it out. (Honestly, they did say this!) Won't Toyota be pleased.

I should return the car to UK Parts to sort these out I guess, but I'm inclined to let a proper mechanic sort it out and send UK Parts the bill.

Have I learned an important lesson here? Oh yes indeed.

If anyone out there is thinking about having a cheap recon fitted, I suggest you have a good look at who you are buying it from first.

Regards

Mark

What a sad story. I really feel for you over the entire episode. This should not be able to occur in today,s society. The customer should be king, but you have been let down totally !!!!. It really sucks !!!!. Your story has made me so mad, how we, the customer, and for any still, reason, are so short-changed, when things go wrong, with our cars, and are ripped-off. This has to change. Mark, you say that the company is in Wolverhampton, that you dealt with. I have been on the website that previous answers say are this site. I have always lived around this region. If i am on the right site, they firstly say that they are Birmingham based. Then the address they give is in W--- B-------, which is not in Birmingham, or Wolverhampton, and has never been. W--- B------- is inbetween these 2 cities, in a metropolitian borough of it.s own. I would like to talk to you on a personal basis, over your experience with this company. This is not right at all. Why would any company say that it is based somewhere, but it is in reality else-where.

[just miko]

I thought I would update the story (saga).

I collected the car yesterday after another two and a bit weeks in the garage (and car hire). UK Parts claim that the oil flow from the turbo was blocked and it was that which caused the engine damage. They have 'replaced the turbo' at a cost of £690 and put another reconditioned engine in.

Cost of the whole exercise so far is around £3000 including car hire (£1465 for the first engine)

Is the car ok now? NO

Engine has very little power until around 3000 revs so I have to change down to 3rd or 2nd to get up any incline - I assume the turbo is coming in too late

The air conditioning has stopped working

The engine will not tick over when first started, it keeps stalling

The steering wheel is set 1/8 of a turn off centre.

The service warning light is on (it was first time they 'repaired' it), the garage said that they don't have the right engine management software for this engine so I should take it to Toyota to let them sort it out. (Honestly, they did say this!) Won't Toyota be pleased.

I should return the car to UK Parts to sort these out I guess, but I'm inclined to let a proper mechanic sort it out and send UK Parts the bill.

Have I learned an important lesson here? Oh yes indeed.

If anyone out there is thinking about having a cheap recon fitted, I suggest you have a good look at who you are buying it from first.

Regards

Mark

What a sad story. I really feel for you over the entire episode. This should not be able to occur in today,s society. The customer should be king, but you have been let down totally !!!!. It really sucks !!!!. Your story has made me so mad, how we, the customer, and for any still, reason, are so short-changed, when things go wrong, with our cars, and are ripped-off. This has to change. Mark, you say that the company is in Wolverhampton, that you dealt with. I have been on the website that previous answers say are this site. I have always lived around this region. If i am on the right site, they firstly say that they are Birmingham based. Then the address they give is in W--- B-------, which is not in Birmingham, or Wolverhampton, and has never been. W--- B------- is inbetween these 2 cities, in a metropolitian borough of it.s own. I would like to talk to you on a personal basis, over your experience with this company. This is not right at all. Why would any company say that it is based somewhere, but it is in reality else-where.

Please send me a personal message, so i can help you, hopefully, on this matter. PLEASE!!!!.