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okay so the standard variable valve timing for toyota is vvti and honda is vtec

the civic type r uses similar 'lift' technology as toyota do in there ctr with the additional cam...

toyota call this vvtli

why does ctr still just have vtec on them? like vvti is different from vvtli why does honda just have vtec, all there engines dont have 'lift' do they? the jazz are vtec....

have i got this wrong?

Thanks

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VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timing and Lift intelligent system) is a version that can alter valve lift (and duration) as well as valve timing. In the case of the 16 valve 2ZZ-GE, the engine has 2 camshafts, one operating intake valves and one operating exhaust valves. Each camshaft has two lobes per cylinder, one low rpm lobe and one high rpm, high lift, long duration lobe. Each cylinder has two intake valves and two exhaust valves. Each set of two valves are controlled by one rocker arm, which is operated by the camshaft. Each rocker arm has a slipper follower mounted to the rocker arm with a spring, allowing the slipper follower to move up and down with the high lobe without affecting the rocker arm. When the engine is operating below 6000-7000 rpm (dependent on year, car, and ECU installed), the low lobe is operating the rocker arm and thus the valves. When the engine is operating above the lift engagement point, the ECU activates an oil pressure switch which pushes a sliding pin under the slipper follower on each rocker arm. This in effect, switches to the high lobe causing high lift and longer duration.

The system was first used in 1999 Toyota Celica SS-II with 2ZZ-GE. Toyota has now ceased production of its VVTL-i engines for most markets, because the engine does not meet Euro IV specifications for emissions. As a result, this engine has been discontinued on some Toyota models, including that of the Corolla T-Sport (Europe), Corolla Sportivo (Australia), Celica, Corolla XRS, Toyota Matrix XRS, and the Pontiac Vibe GT, all of which had the 2ZZ-GE engine fitted. The Lotus Elise continues to offer the 2ZZ-GE and the 1ZZ-FE engine, while the Exige offers the engine with a supercharger.

(intelligent-VTEC)[3] introduced continuously variable camshaft phasing on the intake cam of DOHC VTEC engines. The technology first appeared on Honda's K-series four cylinder engine family in 2001 (2002 in the U.S.). In the United States, Honda first debuted the technology on the 2003 Honda Civic Si EP3 with the economy version.

Valve lift and duration are still limited to distinct low- and high-RPM profiles, but the intake camshaft is now capable of advancing between 25 and 50 degrees (depending upon engine configuration) during operation. Phase changes are implemented by a computer controlled, oil driven adjustable cam gear. Phasing is determined by a combination of engine load and rpm, ranging from fully retarded at idle to somewhat advanced at full throttle and low rpm. The effect is further optimization of torque output, especially at low and midrange RPM.

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so what's better?

and has VVT-i not VVTL-i go any better off than say something with out VVT-i like a ford?

Someone told me that the VVt-i kicks in at 3500rpm and i do hear the engine change note at this point in the revs?

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so what's better?

and has VVT-i not VVTL-i go any better off than say something with out VVT-i like a ford?

Someone told me that the VVt-i kicks in at 3500rpm and i do hear the engine change note at this point in the revs?

WHAT?

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Vtec is undoubtly better than VVT-I

VVTLI Is better than VTEC

IVTEC is slightly better than VVTLI

Opinion or fact ?

fact

the 2zz-ge was built to compete against the b18c, In terms of targets the 2zz-ge achieved its goal.

ivtec is more advanced and in terms of power it is far superior to the 2zz-ge.

vvti cannot really be compared to vtec....both in performance and reliability.

a b16 has vtec....but a 1.6 vvti corolla is no match for one in terms of performance .....

the 2zz-ge is better compared to the b18c same displacement etc

the 2.0 ivtec has more displacement but because of power figures and like for like......vvtli is nearly as good as a k20 but the 2zz-ge is pushed to its limit from stock.

the k20 has so much more potential which makes it a better performing engine!

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Vtec is undoubtly better than VVT-I

VVTLI Is better than VTEC

IVTEC is slightly better than VVTLI

Opinion or fact ?

fact

the 2zz-ge was built to compete against the b18c, In terms of targets the 2zz-ge achieved its goal.

ivtec is more advanced and in terms of power it is far superior to the 2zz-ge.

vvti cannot really be compared to vtec....both in performance and reliability.

a b16 has vtec....but a 1.6 vvti corolla is no match for one in terms of performance .....

the 2zz-ge is better compared to the b18c same displacement etc

the 2.0 ivtec has more displacement but because of power figures and like for like......vvtli is nearly as good as a k20 but the 2zz-ge is pushed to its limit from stock.

the k20 has so much more potential which makes it a better performing engine!

Based on what fact ?

Just enquiring here, no more .... ;)

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The NSX was the first vehicle to use the VTEC effect in a production vehicle, in 1992 the civics were produced with engines that had VTEC . VTEC was used in the sports compact market.

Fact

there was no vvti in those years, only VVT, so this puts hondas VTEC again in front of toyotas vvt technology. No VVTI engine is used as a sports hatch.

The B18 was introduced in around 1994......

Toyota's first variable valve timing with intelligence system, dubbed VVT-i, first appeared on the road in the Lexus GS/LS/SC 300/400 in 1998, Yet again toyota is still behind hondas legendary vtec.

Now to add to the fact of performance well cut to the chase,

So lets take a performance vtec engine which compares well to the 2zz-ge

B18C as found in the integra DC2

4 Cylinder Inline

16 Valve DOHC Belt Driven

Pentroof Type Combustion Chamber

Displacement: 1797cc (110 cu.in.)

81mm x 87.2mm (Bore & Stroke)

Compression Ratio: 10.0:1

BHP: 187

Torque: 128LBFT

2ZZ-GE

4 Cylinder Inline

16 Valve DOHC Chain Driven

Pentroof Type Combustion Chamber

Displacement: 1796 (109.6 cu.in.)

Bore & Stroke: 82.0mm x 85.0mm

BHP: 190

Torque: 133LBFT

Now from comparison, The 2zz-ge makes more power from stock, Has a minimal smaller displacement, It is chain driven adding to reliability and also produces more torque.

It is a fact these two engines are made in the same category because of there similarities in size and displacement. We are comparing engine to engine here.

The 2zz-ge dry engine weight is: 115kg

a small glitch on my part of weight on the b18, from knowledge a b16 weights 140kg....From a good assumption the b18 is heavier by a few kg so again 2zz-ge is lighter.

So fact is comparing a performance orientated vtec engine to an economy engine like the vvti there is no comparison.

We can also pull this along now to reliability as 2 main factors of engines in comparison from this topic is performance and reliability.

Honda engines are bullet proof, Vtec engines are built to last and funnily enough they still make great power today regardless of there age and mileage.

VVTI engines are well known for there oil trouble and weak bottom ends.

VVTLI engines had barely any major flaws from factory it was built as a performance engine.

VVTI was not built as a performance engine

VTEC was also built as a performance engine in its time.

Now back down to which is better from knowledge and research its a fact

VTEC > VVTI

VVTLI > VTEC

IVTEC is a newer technology than VVTLI....The engine itself is more advanced, produces more power however it can be classed in a different league, Due to the weight and power of the 2ZZ-GE however stock for stock a 2zz-ge is advanced enough to still have a chance at competing with the newer ivtec.

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jono, VVT or Variable Valve Timing is available on a wide range of cars from a wide range of manufactures. around about 3500rpm as you say is when VVT becomes effective but it doesn’t really give you any increase of power like 'LIFT' the idea of VVT is to advance the !Removed! the timing of the valves depending on how much throttle is open this improves fuel efficiency and throttle responce.

someone please correct me if im wrong.

Joel

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Ha only just seen how stupid my first comment looked made no sense lol

so my 1.4VVT-i against say a 1.4 ford both stock?

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The NSX was the first vehicle to use the VTEC effect in a production vehicle, in 1992 the civics were produced with engines that had VTEC . VTEC was used in the sports compact market.

Fact

there was no vvti in those years, only VVT, so this puts hondas VTEC again in front of toyotas vvt technology. No VVTI engine is used as a sports hatch.

The B18 was introduced in around 1994......

Toyota's first variable valve timing with intelligence system, dubbed VVT-i, first appeared on the road in the Lexus GS/LS/SC 300/400 in 1998, Yet again toyota is still behind hondas legendary vtec.

Now to add to the fact of performance well cut to the chase,

So lets take a performance vtec engine which compares well to the 2zz-ge

B18C as found in the integra DC2

4 Cylinder Inline

16 Valve DOHC Belt Driven

Pentroof Type Combustion Chamber

Displacement: 1797cc (110 cu.in.)

81mm x 87.2mm (Bore & Stroke)

Compression Ratio: 10.0:1

BHP: 187

Torque: 128LBFT

2ZZ-GE

4 Cylinder Inline

16 Valve DOHC Chain Driven

Pentroof Type Combustion Chamber

Displacement: 1796 (109.6 cu.in.)

Bore & Stroke: 82.0mm x 85.0mm

BHP: 190

Torque: 133LBFT

Now from comparison, The 2zz-ge makes more power from stock, Has a minimal smaller displacement, It is chain driven adding to reliability and also produces more torque.

It is a fact these two engines are made in the same category because of there similarities in size and displacement. We are comparing engine to engine here.

The 2zz-ge dry engine weight is: 115kg

a small glitch on my part of weight on the b18, from knowledge a b16 weights 140kg....From a good assumption the b18 is heavier by a few kg so again 2zz-ge is lighter.

So fact is comparing a performance orientated vtec engine to an economy engine like the vvti there is no comparison.

We can also pull this along now to reliability as 2 main factors of engines in comparison from this topic is performance and reliability.

Honda engines are bullet proof, Vtec engines are built to last and funnily enough they still make great power today regardless of there age and mileage.

VVTI engines are well known for there oil trouble and weak bottom ends.

VVTLI engines had barely any major flaws from factory it was built as a performance engine.

VVTI was not built as a performance engine

VTEC was also built as a performance engine in its time.

Now back down to which is better from knowledge and research its a fact

VTEC > VVTI

VVTLI > VTEC

IVTEC is a newer technology than VVTLI....The engine itself is more advanced, produces more power however it can be classed in a different league, Due to the weight and power of the 2ZZ-GE however stock for stock a 2zz-ge is advanced enough to still have a chance at competing with the newer ivtec.

Nice explanation there thank you ;)

So whats the difference between iVtec & Vtec ? Lift ?

Is that to say the DC2 Integra does not have lift ?

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not a problem bro, Integra has vtec which means Variable valve Timing and Electronic lift Control

integra has vtec so basically its like our lift high end power kicks in.

theres quiet a bit of a difference, check the three engines on wikipedia itll probably explain better than i can.

what i do know is vvtli uses lift from both exhaust and intake cams i think

vtec used to use exhaust only

ivtec uses intake and exhaust like us...but the way the units operate is apparently tottaly different. our vvtli uses an oil pressure solenoid. its quite confusing but ivtec engines were made later than the 2zz-ge probably why they make more power and are more advanced.

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