Just Ordered Power Chip !

[halfalife]

Hi everyone, I've just ordered a power chip kit from Lindop for my d4d XTR after reading various threads on here. I thought I'd give myself an early xmas pressie. I will let you know how I get on and the results I find.

[Big Kev]

Hi everyone, I've just ordered a power chip kit from Lindop for my d4d XTR after reading various threads on here. I thought I'd give myself an early xmas pressie. I will let you know how I get on and the results I find.

Good on ya Halfa,

Come to Scotland soon and we'll play races! Seriously, you won't look back....performance "delivery" improves greatly, with the increase in performance being great too!

Now then......should you not be fitting a K & N Performance filter too?

Do you know anyone in SCOTLAND who has one (actually two) in stock at woefully cheap prices? PM IF YOU WANT ONE, especially if you enjoy a wee bit extra turbo whistle....does improve engine "breathing" a bit and throttle response sharpens a tad.

Regards,

Big Kev.

[Parts-King]

Nice one!

Kingo

[halfalife]

Hi everyone, I've just ordered a power chip kit from Lindop for my d4d XTR after reading various threads on here. I thought I'd give myself an early xmas pressie. I will let you know how I get on and the results I find.

Good on ya Halfa,

Come to Scotland soon and we'll play races! Seriously, you won't look back....performance "delivery" improves greatly, with the increase in performance being great too!

Now then......should you not be fitting a K & N Performance filter too?

Do you know anyone in SCOTLAND who has one (actually two) in stock at woefully cheap prices? PM IF YOU WANT ONE, especially if you enjoy a wee bit extra turbo whistle....does improve engine "breathing" a bit and throttle response sharpens a tad.

Regards,

Big Kev.

Should I be fitting A K & N ?? I dont know.....should I???

Advice please.

[Big Kev]

Nice one!

Kingo

Kingo,

Are you still running aboot the English hills? Have been waiting with baited breath for report and photos and total monies raised?

All of you who did not sponsor our King oF Bits Toyota should be ashamed.

If you've already posted report, please guide me to heading.

Big Kev.

[Parts-King]

Yes Big Kev the run was completed without too many hitches, took blinkin hours and was VERY hard work, total amount raised should come in at about £400

I will post up the pictures as soon as I can, thanks for your support

Kingo

[Mereside]

Hi,

yes fit a K & N filter if you like the turbo whistle. I did as it was not obtrusive and between the chip and the filter mpg did improve a bit but the grin factor improved a lot. Its nice to know that you have the extra push 'just in case'.

The filter is a doddle to fit and I think 'R Kev' has one going spare.

Regards

Mereside

[Jamesbelfast]

Can anyone explain how a K&N filter "thingymajig" improves throttle response and engine breathing on a diesel engine fitted with a turbo and intercooler.??:)

[redlew]

How much does the chip and filter load the insurance, please?

[local hero]

How much does the chip and filter load the insurance, please?

Mine costs me about £50 pa extra, for an accurate quote go on go compare fill in all your details, it then asks is car modified answer yes, it then lists mods add chip or ecu upgrade + you will get a figure, not all Ins will cover you though, I paid £49 for a K+n filter ran it for 200mls could detect no noticeable difference other than an irritating whistle..I then gave it away, bear in mind mine is an XT4 not a T180..My twin exhaust has made more difference than the K+N but was considerably dearer..I have yet to be convinced that an insurance assesor would ever know if your car was chipped, both it + the K+N can be removed in 10 mins..Stew

[Mereside]

James,

I am not that technical but suspect that when the turbo calls for more air and fuel to feed the engine the K & N allows the air in quicker. When I had mine the engine hesitated a bit and didn't weant to rev to the red line as if it wasn't happy or was restricted in some way. The K & N was b a bit noisier but it cured the hesitation and felt as if the engine was getting the fuel/air quicker and so responded to the throttle input quicker.

Hope this all makes some kind of sense, if not Anchorman where are you?

Regards

Mereside

[Jamesbelfast]

James,

I am not that technical but suspect that when the turbo calls for more air and fuel to feed the engine the K & N allows the air in quicker. When I had mine the engine hesitated a bit and didn't weant to rev to the red line as if it wasn't happy or was restricted in some way. The K & N was b a bit noisier but it cured the hesitation and felt as if the engine was getting the fuel/air quicker and so responded to the throttle input quicker.

Hope this all makes some kind of sense, if not Anchorman where are you?

Regards

Mereside

Well firstly diesels don't have throttles in the conventional sense as petrol engines - diesel engines are known as free breathers. Secondly the speed and demand of the turbo is determined entirely by its pressure regulating system. Adding cooler air is a total waste of time - why - because the turbo compresses the air and as every schoolboy who paid the slightest attention in science class knows that when you compress a gas it get hot - then the hot compressed air passes through the intercooler where it is cooled before going into the combustion chambers. So the temperature of the ingested air is entirely determined by the efficiency of the intercooler.

And pushing a diesel engine anywhere near the redline is another waste of time, energy and fuel simply because at that stage the engine is well beyond it useful power band.

Yes the K&N will make a lot of noise but that's about all it can do. If fitting the K&N cured a hesitation problem then I would suspect there were problems elsewhere and all that has happened is to cure the symptom and not the problem.

In my experience if you are going to try and uprate the power output of a bog standard diesel engine the best way is to have the ECU remapped - why - whats the point of throwing more air or fuel into an engiune unless they are in the correct proportions. Only by altering the ECU software can this be achieved and even then it will have its limitations.

Also in my experience many people seem to think that the tweeks that may work on a petrol engine can be used similarly on a diesel engine - nothing could be farther from the truth.

But hey - sure K&N have gotta make a living and if it rocks your boat - go for it.:)

[Mereside]

James,

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I put the filter on mine and it ran better.

From what you say this is not possible and it must have had a fault even though it felt like it ran ok. Again I can't argue as I am not that technical and I thought it may have been for the reasons I mentioned but obviously not.

With your obvious intimate knowledge of diesel engines why didn't you mention this earlier when you asked the question then amateurs like me wouldn't have tried to help.

Regards

Mereside

PS will a K & N help my new S3 when it is run in.?

[anchorman]

James,

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I put the filter on mine and it ran better.

From what you say this is not possible and it must have had a fault even though it felt like it ran ok. Again I can't argue as I am not that technical and I thought it may have been for the reasons I mentioned but obviously not.

With your obvious intimate knowledge of diesel engines why didn't you mention this earlier when you asked the question then amateurs like me wouldn't have tried to help.

Regards

Mereside

PS will a K & N help my new S3 when it is run in.?

He was having a sarcastic dig - not asking a question but questioning the answer.

However, don't be too bamboozled Mereside because not all of that statement makes sense (unless I've misunderstood it). I've never heard the term "free breather" but that is a little bit of a misnomer in a turbocharged engine as the air is forced into the cylinders. Additionally, it isn't the action of the compression that raises the temperature such that it needs to be cooled, it is forcing it through a red hot turbo charger. For that reason it has to be cooled BEFORE it gets to the cylinders in order to raise its density and efficiency of the incoming charge.

I have to say that I'm a little bit sceptical about K&N filters because if they were that good the manufacturers would be fitting them. However, when I was sitting at technical meetings with vehicle manufacturers, every statement had to be backed up with facts (usually test data) - you could not go off "gut feel" or subjective assessment. Having said that there were occasions when field data did not stack up with test data and things didn't turn out as expected. We used to find that very surprising results would pop up and inexplicable things would happen. So! just like single mass flywheels, K&N filters fall into that category with me. So many people insist they are better, they do improve performance and economy and maybe Toyota just can't go to that level in reduction of restriction simply because of the noise. While your explanation might not have been technically perfect, I didn't feel it warranted any intervention. I took it as an opinion of your experience and that should be good enough for most. We are not all mechanics mate and I knew exactly where you were coming from!!!

[Cyker]

How much does the chip and filter load the insurance, please?

Mine costs me about £50 pa extra, for an accurate quote go on go compare fill in all your details, it then asks is car modified answer yes, it then lists mods add chip or ecu upgrade + you will get a figure, not all Ins will cover you though, I paid £49 for a K+n filter ran it for 200mls could detect no noticeable difference other than an irritating whistle..I then gave it away, bear in mind mine is an XT4 not a T180..My twin exhaust has made more difference than the K+N but was considerably dearer..I have yet to be convinced that an insurance assesor would ever know if your car was chipped, both it + the K+N can be removed in 10 mins..Stew

Corrr... when I quoted for one of Kingo's chips it added almost £100 to my insurance! :(

Could not tell them I guess, but how would one remove them if the front of the car has been all crushed in...? ;)

About K+N filters; How does the lower filtration affect the engine? I think they do offer slightly improved performance as they are less restrictive to airflow vs the standard filter, but this is because it is a poorer filter; Something like 5-8% worse than a paper filter, but how much does the engine care about dirtier intake air?

@anchorman - I think by 'freebreather' he was just referring to the fact that there is no throttle in diesel engines to restrict intake airflow.

BTW, the compression of the air is a fairly significant part of the heating of a turbo (The other main contributor being the exhaust temperature as you say). That's partly why, for instance, rally drivers only turn on their electric turbo motor thingy shortly before they start the course; If they left it on all the time it would get unnecessarily hot even if the car was idling.

Even the intercooler is not strictly necessary in a turbodiesel, but it's a free performance boost since cooler air=more density/lower pressure (Good ol' pV=nrt \o/) and stops the engine getting as hot!

[Parts-King]

Some D4D facts

You CANNOT re-map a Toyota D4D engine, the only way of adding power (for a sensible price) is a tuning/chip kit, nobody has cracked the Denso pumps and are unlikely to anytime soon

Our chip kits are removable in minutes ;) but obviously you should inform your insurance company

I have never sold any K & N or ITG filters but everyone I come across reckons they are great!

Kingo

[Cyker]

Actually, can someone define 're-map' and 'tuning/chipping' for me?

I've always been a bit hazy on what the terms actually mean...

[Davrav]

Actually, can someone define 're-map' and 'tuning/chipping' for me?

I've always been a bit hazy on what the terms actually mean...

Have a read of these:

LINK

LINK

I think, between them they cover pretty much all you need to know.

This is by no means an endorsement for either company by the way.

[anchorman]

Hi Cyker

I know what he means but the point I was making is that we're not all mechanics and that everybody is entitled to an opinion and Mereside did quite a good job of explaining his experience.

My interpretation of remapping is that the main ECU is reprogrammed to make the engine perform differently from design. In that respect I suppose that fitting a chip is remapping - it just does it by interfering with the data from the ECU.

Cheers

[halfalife]

How much does the chip and filter load the insurance, please?

Mine costs me about £50 pa extra, for an accurate quote go on go compare fill in all your details, it then asks is car modified answer yes, it then lists mods add chip or ecu upgrade + you will get a figure, not all Ins will cover you though, I paid £49 for a K+n filter ran it for 200mls could detect no noticeable difference other than an irritating whistle..I then gave it away, bear in mind mine is an XT4 not a T180..My twin exhaust has made more difference than the K+N but was considerably dearer..I have yet to be convinced that an insurance assesor would ever know if your car was chipped, both it + the K+N can be removed in 10 mins..Stew

Corrr... when I quoted for one of Kingo's chips it added almost £100 to my insurance! :(

Could not tell them I guess, but how would one remove them if the front of the car has been all crushed in...? ;)

About K+N filters; How does the lower filtration affect the engine? I think they do offer slightly improved performance as they are less restrictive to airflow vs the standard filter, but this is because it is a poorer filter; Something like 5-8% worse than a paper filter, but how much does the engine care about dirtier intake air?

@anchorman - I think by 'freebreather' he was just referring to the fact that there is no throttle in diesel engines to restrict intake airflow.

BTW, the compression of the air is a fairly significant part of the heating of a turbo (The other main contributor being the exhaust temperature as you say). That's partly why, for instance, rally drivers only turn on their electric turbo motor thingy shortly before they start the course; If they left it on all the time it would get unnecessarily hot even if the car was idling.

Even the intercooler is not strictly necessary in a turbodiesel, but it's a free performance boost since cooler air=more density/lower pressure (Good ol' pV=nrt \o/) and stops the engine getting as hot!

Tell the Insurance company.....what an absurd suggestion !!

[Parts-King]

A re-map is breaking into the ECU either electronically, or as one customer told me of his experience of a re-map yesterday "He opened up the ECU and jammed a paper clip across some terminals" Doing it electronically usually means overiding the original ECU settings or downloading a new file to the ECU's memory. This can be done very successfully on some cars but the Denso ECU's are not crackable. The benefit of a chip or tuning box is that the ECU is not interfered with in any way, the tuning box does all it has to do without any trace left in the ECU memory, so it never overites the ECU settings. Our kits are fully digital and work! Some chips just fool the engine into thinking it is running colder than it is, over fuelling the car and putting the injectors and engine life at jeopardy, Our kits wont do that, if anyone wants any further information on a kit, PM me

Kingo

[shcm]

A re-map is breaking into the ECU either electronically, or as one customer told me of his experience of a re-map yesterday "He opened up the ECU and jammed a paper clip across some terminals"

How much was the replacement ECU?

We design the external connections on ECUs to be idiot proof up to a point, but unless you really know what you are doing, don't mess with the internals. If you did know what you were doing, you'd solder in a wire link and tack it down to resist vibration, not use a ****ing paper clip.

I'm sure you are well aware, but mapping refers to the way engine management system used to (and possibly still do) determine how to respond (drive its outputs) to its measured inputs (e.g. engine load and speed).

The processor in the ECU, is no where near as powerful as your desktop pc or has anywhere near as much memory. In the early days, it was even worse. Most processors were not fast enough to do the calculations required to set up or determine the amount and timing of fueling/sparks in the time available to do the calculation.

A map (or a lookup table) was made, which, put simply would consist of pre-determined values of e.g. fueling required for say a given load and speed. This look up was much faster to perform than a calculation. The downside is that early processor were limited on memory space and external memory was small and expense. This limits the number of points in your map. If your input values fall between points in the map (lookup table), you have to estimate the output based on the values in the map that the inputs falls between. That can lead to non-optimum fueling. When emission legislation is very tight, this can be a problem.

Remapping is just altering the values in the lookup tables. e.g. say giving more ommmph for worse fuel consumption.

Embedded processors now are much faster. I've been out of engine managment for years, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is now enough processor speed to do things differently, to provide a more optimum response. Engine management can be fairly processing power hungry compared with other vehicle functions. I'll have to ask some of my mates in EMS design, what they do these days. The apps engineers always want some parameters to tweak though.

[Parts-King]

I cringed at the point where the paperclip was mentioned. It was NOT done here I hasten to add, he had it done by some "expert" Of course the "paper clip re-map" did nothing at all to his car, but did make a hole in his pocket

Kingo

[halfalife]

Chip arrived today and took 20 mins to fit. Had a drive on the standard setting, then changed it too max. injection. I have only drove around the block but there is a marked difference. I will look foreward to more testing.

[Jamesbelfast]

James,

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I put the filter on mine and it ran better.

From what you say this is not possible and it must have had a fault even though it felt like it ran ok. Again I can't argue as I am not that technical and I thought it may have been for the reasons I mentioned but obviously not.

With your obvious intimate knowledge of diesel engines why didn't you mention this earlier when you asked the question then amateurs like me wouldn't have tried to help.

Regards

Mereside

PS will a K & N help my new S3 when it is run in.?

He was having a sarcastic dig - not asking a question but questioning the answer.

However, don't be too bamboozled Mereside because not all of that statement makes sense (unless I've misunderstood it). I've never heard the term "free breather" but that is a little bit of a misnomer in a turbocharged engine as the air is forced into the cylinders. Additionally, it isn't the action of the compression that raises the temperature such that it needs to be cooled, it is forcing it through a red hot turbo charger. For that reason it has to be cooled BEFORE it gets to the cylinders in order to raise its density and efficiency of the incoming charge.

I have to say that I'm a little bit sceptical about K&N filters because if they were that good the manufacturers would be fitting them. However, when I was sitting at technical meetings with vehicle manufacturers, every statement had to be backed up with facts (usually test data) - you could not go off "gut feel" or subjective assessment. Having said that there were occasions when field data did not stack up with test data and things didn't turn out as expected. We used to find that very surprising results would pop up and inexplicable things would happen. So! just like single mass flywheels, K&N filters fall into that category with me. So many people insist they are better, they do improve performance and economy and maybe Toyota just can't go to that level in reduction of restriction simply because of the noise. While your explanation might not have been technically perfect, I didn't feel it warranted any intervention. I took it as an opinion of your experience and that should be good enough for most. We are not all mechanics mate and I knew exactly where you were coming from!!!

The term "free breather" simply means there is no throttle plate or butterfly restriction in the inlet system - in other words a diesel engine will take in as much as as can be forced into it - either by ambient air pressure or higher if a turbo is available.:)