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Poiriere

Landcruiser Lc D-4D

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Hi there,

Am new to forum. Have just found out today that the engine on my five year old Landcruiser has died and is going to cost 15,000 euros to replace (parts and labour!!!). I have just been down to garage to take photos. The no1 piston is completely and utterly wrecked. Basically it happened a week ago whilst my husband was driving on the Autoroute in France with our 9 year old daughter in the car. The car was just put into cruise control at 70 mph when it made a loud noise, lost power, white puff of smoke came out of exhaust and then the engine just died. After a harrowing walk along the hard shoulder of the autoroute (as Gendarmes would not accept call on mobile phone) my husband managed to get help, call a breakdown service (this was on a Sunday) and get towed to a depot. The car was then transported to the local Toyota garage where I finally got the result today but the garage does not know why this happened. The car has only done 67,000 carefully driven miles, serviced as required by a Toyota Garage when required by the Service Book. The car has just had her fifth Birthday. I read a report from "Mac" written on the 3 June 2010 and it sounds exactly the same. Could you please let me know the outcome or, should anyone else who has had this problem please let me know what your outcome was. Bearing in mind I have a right-hand drive car with French registration now I think I am going to need some serious help here......

Thanks,

Poiriere

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Hi there,

Am new to forum. Have just found out today that the engine on my five year old Landcruiser has died and is going to cost 15,000 euros to replace (parts and labour!!!). I have just been down to garage to take photos. The no1 piston is completely and utterly wrecked. Basically it happened a week ago whilst my husband was driving on the Autoroute in France with our 9 year old daughter in the car. The car was just put into cruise control at 70 mph when it made a loud noise, lost power, white puff of smoke came out of exhaust and then the engine just died. After a harrowing walk along the hard shoulder of the autoroute (as Gendarmes would not accept call on mobile phone) my husband managed to get help, call a breakdown service (this was on a Sunday) and get towed to a depot. The car was then transported to the local Toyota garage where I finally got the result today but the garage does not know why this happened. The car has only done 67,000 carefully driven miles, serviced as required by a Toyota Garage when required by the Service Book. The car has just had her fifth Birthday. I read a report from "Mac" written on the 3 June 2010 and it sounds exactly the same. Could you please let me know the outcome or, should anyone else who has had this problem please let me know what your outcome was. Bearing in mind I have a right-hand drive car with French registration now I think I am going to need some serious help here......

Thanks,

Poiriere

Hello Poiriere

the story looks very unclear.

I even do not know what to start from. What were the symptoms before it has died. It would be fine to have some photos on here to think about possible reasons. Cheers/Igor

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Piston collides with either a valve or the cylinder head. Possibly a dropped valve or valve train failure or the big end gave way and the piston exceeded its stroke. It's rare for big ends to fail suddenly. My first suspicion would be a valve problem.:)

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Hi there. I am new to this forum but I want to report a similar problem. My engine also died having done 63000 miles. I bought it two and half years ago from a dealer in Bristol. A few days ago a knocking noise was coming from the engine which disappeared when it warmed up. Three weeks ago I was in cruise control and climbing a very steep hill which I had driven up many times when the engine suddenly lost power and died. I restarted and the knocking noise was very clear. I called out a recovery service and eventually got it back to the dealers in Bristol. Eventually I was told that reapirs, namely a new engine would cost around £15000 but that the dealers had spoken to the manufacturers and had got the bill to me down to £5000. Whilst on the one handI think I have got a better deal than you I am still miffed that it happened at all. My previous Landcruiser I bought when it had done 120000 and traded it in (for this one) with 165,000 on the clock and not using any Oil. If anyone has had similar problems please report it on here. Toyota are going through a bad time at the moment with all the recalls and I am sure that they would not wish the general public to know that there might be problems with their flagship model supposedly indestructable. This model has been tested on Top-Gear to limit and come out with flying colours. I intend to pursue the matter further. Ian

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There is a known problem, where exhaust gases leak past the copper injector seals and contaminate the Oil. This eventually blocks the Oil strainer. Toyota have increased the warranty on the engine for this faut to 5 years/100,000 miles (apparently you may have to push them though).

Toyota upgraded the copper injector seals to aluminium in cars built from early 2008.

Toyota Ireland recalled the cars to upgrade the copper seals to aluminium. Toyota GB did not.

I've had mine changed to aluminium and I'd advise anyone else who intends to keep their LC long term to do the same.

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There is a known problem, where exhaust gases leak past the copper injector seals and contaminate the oil. This eventually blocks the oil strainer. Toyota have increased the warranty on the engine for this faut to 5 years/100,000 miles (apparently you may have to push them though).

Toyota upgraded the copper injector seals to aluminium in cars built from early 2008.

Toyota Ireland recalled the cars to upgrade the copper seals to aluminium. Toyota GB did not.

I've had mine changed to aluminium and I'd advise anyone else who intends to keep their LC long term to do the same.

Thanks for that info Marlot. Have you any information on how extensive the problem was to cause Toyota Ireland to recall. I didn't see anything in the press about this, but perhaps I wouldn't if Toyota GB decided not to do a recall. Why??? This is clearly a design fault which I will of course take issue with. Ian

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Marlot, thanks for that useful post. I am just about to buy a 2007 d4d Invincible and am now concerened about this issue - could you give me a clue how much it cost you to swap out the copper for aluminium seals?

Cheers.

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Someone on tlocuk.co.uk paid £600 with new injector pipes at a MrT dealer (including checking the Oil strainer in the sump for sludge). I would have thought far cheaper with an independant garage though - probably a diesel specialist would be cheapest.

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Found this on the internet....

In Spain it was known to have an injector problem that caused the engines to stop or run slowly. In extreme cases it could cause permanent damage to the cylinder or piston. Dealers were known to change the injectors up to seven years after the purchase of the vehicle.[

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I thought I should add my own story to this thread. I needed a super reliable horse towing vehicle and thought the 35K mile, 54 plate LC3 I bought 18 months ago was just the ticket. Well, about a month ago at 45K miles the Oil light kept flickering about. I took it in to a non Toyota garage for an engine flush. Problem solved. Then a couple of weeks ago, it blew up exiting the M1 with no warning, luckily without horses in tow. The RAC man said in 16 years he has never recovered a dead LC.

I was all set to cough up for a second hand engine when I found this forum. Off it went to my local Toyota dealer. To cut a long story short, Toyota, God bless them are giving me a new engine with a total parts cost of £9.5k, in spite of the car being 1.5 years out of warranty. The dealership said they have never seen an engine with so much damage to so many parts. They were so impressed they even gave me a tour of the carnage. The sump filter looked like the bottom of a cafetiere, so it sounds like our old friends the copper seals might have been the culprits.

I have to pay labour, but hell, I am really am not complaining since they will do my worn clutch at the same time saving me labour on that within the next year.

Big up for Pentagon Toyota Sheffield. Highly recommended. Imagine getting the same treatment from a Land Rover dealer?...

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I thought I should add my own story to this thread. I needed a super reliable horse towing vehicle and thought the 35K mile, 54 plate LC3 I bought 18 months ago was just the ticket. Well, about a month ago at 45K miles the oil light kept flickering about. I took it in to a non Toyota garage for an engine flush. Problem solved. Then a couple of weeks ago, it blew up exiting the M1 with no warning, luckily without horses in tow. The RAC man said in 16 years he has never recovered a dead LC.

I was all set to cough up for a second hand engine when I found this forum. Off it went to my local Toyota dealer. To cut a long story short, Toyota, God bless them are giving me a new engine with a total parts cost of £9.5k, in spite of the car being 1.5 years out of warranty. The dealership said they have never seen an engine with so much damage to so many parts. They were so impressed they even gave me a tour of the carnage. The sump filter looked like the bottom of a cafetiere, so it sounds like our old friends the copper seals might have been the culprits.

I have to pay labour, but hell, I am really am not complaining since they will do my worn clutch at the same time saving me labour on that within the next year.

Big up for Pentagon Toyota Sheffield. Highly recommended. Imagine getting the same treatment from a Land Rover dealer?...

Now thats what I call a result! Well done Toyota UK and Pentagon Sheffield. Great dealer who I've used to buy parts from off Ebay :thumbsup:

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OK here is the basic problem, and it is very far from being confined to Toyota.

EU4 generation diesel engines (and those coming on stream for EU 5 and 6)are not the same as the diesels of yore that plodded on for years, they are now very complex highly stressed systems that are pushing the edge of materials, lubricant and design technology.

The core problems stem from aggressive exhaust gas recirculation, injectors that are very sensitive to fouling, Oil stress and yes, the problems of diesel leaking past injector seals although that is not as bad as people think. A big yet insoluable problem is that diesel fuel standards lag behind the requirements of the engine: high pressure injector systems cause polymerisation of fuel and creation of asphaltane deposits. The Gas to Liquid fuel mixes like BP Ultimate do not exist because they love you. Could bore you with the whole tekky mess but here are simple things to do to limit the downside:

1. Change your Oil and filter every 500O miles max. Use a full synthetic Oil that is intended for EU4 turbo diesels. Toyota do not publish Oil specs but look for the matching Mercedes Benz one: MB229.51 (Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP for example)

The EGR system creates very harsh conditions for any Oil in an EU4 engine and low quality ones simply cannot hack it. The Oil spec for my LC given in the handbook is ancient and now obsolete! So underspecified oils are prone to breaks down, soot deposition increases the problem and you get build ups of crud in the engine. Oil strainer gets partially blocked, Oil flow drops. Underside of piston crowns no longer get Oil spray, they overheat, expand, engine starts to sieze up, car slows down, driver puts foot down, more heat in engine, alloy piston crown melts, engine goes pop. Simple as that.

Same misery is found on many cars, especially Nissan Navara. Core Reason? Underspecified Oil and overspecified service intervals.

A DIY Oil change on a LC is so easy it is laughable because of the high ground clearance. Filter is a bit iffy to get off but a Draper chain Oil filter remover on the end of an socket extension bar has it off in seconds. Oil from filter handily goes into a tray that has a drain pipe leading down to same place a the sump drain plug, so if you have a container undermeath no mess. Filters to be had online from Milner Off-Road at fraction of price from dealer.

2. Injector fouling is a problem because of the variable multi spray pattern injectors that have very, very small nozzles and any cack on them ruins a critical spaty pattern. All manner of woe follows: rough running, excessive fuel consumption, noise, smoke. That can largely be avoided by using a premium fuel like BP Ultimate or using an injector cleaner like Millers Diesel Power Sport 4 with normal diesel. Halfords sell it. Again not just a Toyota problem

3. Drive appropriately for the car. Many of you are not going to like this, but basic fact is that the engines like this are designed for low-medium speed operation in difficult conditions. Sustained high speed use is just asking for trouble because operating any turbo diesel for prolonged periods well above the max. torque rpm point pushes up the Exhaust Gas Temperature. That is bad news, so much so that you will see a lot of heavy vehicles fitted with Exhaust Gas Temperature monitors. They are not there by accident.

Nobody told you any of that? Car makers being very "generous" with out of warranty claims? I wonder why. Perhaps the entire motor industry is afraid, gibbering in fear that the market for second hand diesels will collapse, people will stop new buying diesels and that will push up the average product CO2 levels across their range and they will then get huge fines from the EU. (Hint: Why do you thing Aston Martin are "making" a joke baby car, the Cygnet, which is just a tarted up Toyota iQ, at vast cost that they will essentially give away?)

Could start going on about the evils of blocked EGR valves, coked up swirl flaps, duff MAF sensors, expensive additives for post exhaust gas treatment, DPF's that should never have been etc etc but all I can tell you is that whilst I am very happy with my Land Cruiser which has for 6 years been 100% reliable, I can never again bring myself to buy any vehicle from any maker with an EU4 or above diesel engine.

Too complex, dealers simply cannot cope with them, pushing the limits of materials technology: they are the unreliable product of engineers struggling to cope with the effects of bonkers enviro-political meddling, not good design concepts. The whole thing stinks.

My next LC is going to be a V6 petrol which I will have converted to LPG. My daily drive has for some time been a normally aspirated petrol and will continue to be so.

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OK here is the basic problem, and it is very far from being confined to Toyota.

EU4 generation diesel engines (and those coming on stream for EU 5 and 6)are not the same as the diesels of yore that plodded on for years, they are now very complex highly stressed systems that are pushing the edge of materials, lubricant and design technology.

The core problems stem from aggressive exhaust gas recirculation, injectors that are very sensitive to fouling, oil stress and yes, the problems of diesel leaking past injector seals although that is not as bad as people think. A big yet insoluable problem is that diesel fuel standards lag behind the requirements of the engine: high pressure injector systems cause polymerisation of fuel and creation of asphaltane deposits. The Gas to Liquid fuel mixes like BP Ultimate do not exist because they love you. Could bore you with the whole tekky mess but here are simple things to do to limit the downside:

1. Change your oil and filter every 500O miles max. Use a full synthetic oil that is intended for EU4 turbo diesels. Toyota do not publish oil specs but look for the matching Mercedes Benz one: MB229.51 (Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP for example)

The EGR system creates very harsh conditions for any oil in an EU4 engine and low quality ones simply cannot hack it. The oil spec for my LC given in the handbook is ancient and now obsolete! So underspecified oils are prone to breaks down, soot deposition increases the problem and you get build ups of crud in the engine. Oil strainer gets partially blocked, oil flow drops. Underside of piston crowns no longer get oil spray, they overheat, expand, engine starts to sieze up, car slows down, driver puts foot down, more heat in engine, alloy piston crown melts, engine goes pop. Simple as that.

Same misery is found on many cars, especially Nissan Navara. Core Reason? Underspecified oil and overspecified service intervals.

A DIY oil change on a LC is so easy it is laughable because of the high ground clearance. Filter is a bit iffy to get off but a Draper chain oil filter remover on the end of an socket extension bar has it off in seconds. Oil from filter handily goes into a tray that has a drain pipe leading down to same place a the sump drain plug, so if you have a container undermeath no mess. Filters to be had online from Milner Off-Road at fraction of price from dealer.

2. Injector fouling is a problem because of the variable multi spray pattern injectors that have very, very small nozzles and any cack on them ruins a critical spaty pattern. All manner of woe follows: rough running, excessive fuel consumption, noise, smoke. That can largely be avoided by using a premium fuel like BP Ultimate or using an injector cleaner like Millers Diesel Power Sport 4 with normal diesel. Halfords sell it. Again not just a Toyota problem

3. Drive appropriately for the car. Many of you are not going to like this, but basic fact is that the engines like this are designed for low-medium speed operation in difficult conditions. Sustained high speed use is just asking for trouble because operating any turbo diesel for prolonged periods well above the max. torque rpm point pushes up the Exhaust Gas Temperature. That is bad news, so much so that you will see a lot of heavy vehicles fitted with Exhaust Gas Temperature monitors. They are not there by accident.

Nobody told you any of that? Car makers being very "generous" with out of warranty claims? I wonder why. Perhaps the entire motor industry is afraid, gibbering in fear that the market for second hand diesels will collapse, people will stop new buying diesels and that will push up the average product CO2 levels across their range and they will then get huge fines from the EU. (Hint: Why do you thing Aston Martin are "making" a joke baby car, the Cygnet, which is just a tarted up Toyota iQ, at vast cost that they will essentially give away?)

Could start going on about the evils of blocked EGR valves, coked up swirl flaps, duff MAF sensors, expensive additives for post exhaust gas treatment, DPF's that should never have been etc etc but all I can tell you is that whilst I am very happy with my Land Cruiser which has for 6 years been 100% reliable, I can never again bring myself to buy any vehicle from any maker with an EU4 or above diesel engine.

Too complex, dealers simply cannot cope with them, pushing the limits of materials technology: they are the unreliable product of engineers struggling to cope with the effects of bonkers enviro-political meddling, not good design concepts. The whole thing stinks.

My next LC is going to be a V6 petrol which I will have converted to LPG. My daily drive has for some time been a normally aspirated petrol and will continue to be so.

Now then... That was a very interesting read. Thanks for posting it on here :thumbsup:

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FYI I am living on the Costa Tropical region of Southern Spain, and currently own a 1998 5 door Landcruiser 120 VXL (LC5 IN UK)3.0 D4D Auto 65,000 Km clock.

Last week I received a recall notice from Toyota saying there was a recall for the 3.0 D4D (Landcruiser/Hilux) engine.

Took mine into my local Toyota dealer Yokamotril, Motril, Granada, Aandalucia, and they asked if I was experiencing any white smoke, and or knocking noises from the engine? They are going to order the necessary parts for the remedial works, and call me when they are in stock.

Should have scanned/kept a copy of the notification, as it did state what the procedure involved, I'll see what I can do!

Will post again with results, timescales involved etc.

P.S. 0439 FXH has been an absolute pleasure to own & drive, unlike my friend who has a 2009 Disco 4 from new, and hates me with a vengeance due to major problems with electronic handbrake 3 times, collapsed scissor jack on 1st punture, chain & clamp holding spare wheel disintegrated, new clutch last week at 50,000 Km (garage blamed his wife riding the clutch!), excessive tyre wear, tracking completely wrong from new etc.etc.etc.

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Should have scanned/kept a copy of the notification, as it did state what the procedure involved, I'll see what I can do!

It is a new set of fuel pipes and injector seals

Kingo :thumbsup:

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I thought I should add my own story to this thread. I needed a super reliable horse towing vehicle and thought the 35K mile, 54 plate LC3 I bought 18 months ago was just the ticket. Well, about a month ago at 45K miles the oil light kept flickering about. I took it in to a non Toyota garage for an engine flush. Problem solved. Then a couple of weeks ago, it blew up exiting the M1 with no warning, luckily without horses in tow. The RAC man said in 16 years he has never recovered a dead LC.

I was all set to cough up for a second hand engine when I found this forum. Off it went to my local Toyota dealer. To cut a long story short, Toyota, God bless them are giving me a new engine with a total parts cost of £9.5k, in spite of the car being 1.5 years out of warranty. The dealership said they have never seen an engine with so much damage to so many parts. They were so impressed they even gave me a tour of the carnage. The sump filter looked like the bottom of a cafetiere, so it sounds like our old friends the copper seals might have been the culprits.

I have to pay labour, but hell, I am really am not complaining since they will do my worn clutch at the same time saving me labour on that within the next year.

Big up for Pentagon Toyota Sheffield. Highly recommended. Imagine getting the same treatment from a Land Rover dealer?...

Hi there im new to the forum, i purchised a swb landcruiser 05 plate around 6 months ago cause i needed a work horse/car and great it has been until now, the other morning i noticed the Oil light taking a little longer to go out than normal so i checked the levels and all was ok, so i passed no noticed. Then a few weeks later the Oil light flashed and flickered so i checked the levels again and all was fine,now im kinda worried! this morning while i was on my way to the shop the turbo seems to have blown is this normal for 80k or am i having the same problems youve had??? either way its not a great advertisement for toyotas flagship!!! after reading your post im quite concerned as to the cost of fixing this problem. can you tell me when this happened to you as our lcs are similar age, i will contact a toyota dealer tomorrow and make him aware of our problem. any help anyone can give me it would be great as money is tight at the min.. many thanks and best regards

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Hi, your Oil light problems are so similar to mine, that it sounds like it could be the same issue as mine rather than the turbo. This happened at the same time as my post i.e. May 2010. I can't remember all the exact numbers but I recall that from Toyota the parts alone were £9.5k and the labour (+ cost of clutch part) I paid was about £2.5k. The labour should have been way more than this in fact. Don't despair. If your Toyota dealer doesn't want to know, try Pentagon in Sheffield. They may still be able to help, even if not to the same extent. Let us know how you get on. Deepest sympathies.

An additional snippet of information is that a pal took his LC D4d 56 plate into Toyota and had the injector seals changed because of the problems I had. It turned out that the seals had just started to fail, but he had caught it in time. Interestingly, Toyota did charge him for the work. It seems they haven't quite decided how they should be handling this copper seals problem.

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There is a known problem, where exhaust gases leak past the copper injector seals and contaminate the oil. This eventually blocks the oil strainer. Toyota have increased the warranty on the engine for this faut to 5 years/100,000 miles (apparently you may have to push them though).

Toyota upgraded the copper injector seals to aluminium in cars built from early 2008.

Toyota Ireland recalled the cars to upgrade the copper seals to aluminium. Toyota GB did not.

I've had mine changed to aluminium and I'd advise anyone else who intends to keep their LC long term to do the same.

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Since I wrote that, Toyota UK have been operating a customer service campaign to change the injector seals. Quite right too! The LC can go back to being the most reliable big 4x4 out there!

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I have had a recall from Toyota Spain on my 2007 VXL auto to replace the copper seals with aluminium seals due to the Oil seeping past the injectors

which could cause your problems. The Oil that Toyota recommend is well out of date for EU 1V engines. I use fully synthetic 5w30 and have been doing

so for the last 2 Oil changes now. Engine is much quieter and fuel economy is better too , on a long run am averaging 7.8 per 100kms. and that is

cruising at 120/130kph. Great motor otherwise.

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Hi guys,

Ive been lurking for a while and thought Id contribute my experiences. My back ground is in engineering, now teacher.

Land cruiser LC5, 3.0 D4D. 70,000m, fully serviced. My brothers car.


While driving a puff of smoke from engine bay and exhaust occured. Engine was knocking after that and continued to smoke then engine stopped and couldnt re-start.


I discovered injector had pushed through and cracked the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover for a closer inspection. Injector clamp was loose and threads for retaining bolts sheared off.


Removed injector, 10% of copper washer had worn away/dissapeared. (I was under the impression recall was carried out(aluminum washer) for this part as shown on recall website) Also the diesel return rail had snapped.


Decided to replace rocker cover, injector washer and return rail first. (got an aluminum washer). Retapped retaining bolt treads and replaced all componants. I primed and prepaired engine for firing. (engine Oil had been contaminated by diesel from broken return rail).

Engine started after a few turns but and a had knocking noise. Sounded like big end knock. I used a listening device and found the noise originated from the top side of the engine block.


Fearing engine was damaged, we decided to open up the cylinder head to check piston and cylinder walls.

While dismantling we noticed the other injector washers were aluminum. This leads me to believe the recall work wasnt carried out properly. A technician must have skipped one injector for whatever reason.


Pistons didnt have any noticable play, cylinder walls were fine. Inspected cylinder head and noticed amongst the regular carbon sot was a clean round mark about 5mm diameter. I had a hunch that the dissappeared part of the copper injector had melted into the cylinder. I found the melted copper part in the bowl of the piston(was covered in coolant and Oil, very difficult to see) EUREEKA!!! During combustion this piece must have been blasted around.

We rebuilt the engine and replaced one injected for piece of mind. Taking advice from this forum we opened the sump to check the Oil strainer. Its was clogged up.

We rebuilt the engine and all was fine.

We drove slowly to the nearest garage to reprogram/pair the new injector.


Job done!!!


I hope this helps over D4D owners.

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Hi guys,

Ive been lurking for a while and thought Id contribute my experiences. My back ground is in engineering, now teacher.

Land cruiser LC5, 3.0 D4D. 70,000m, fully serviced. My brothers car.

While driving a puff of smoke from engine bay and exhaust occured. Engine was knocking after that and continued to smoke then engine stopped and couldnt re-start.

I discovered injector had pushed through and cracked the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover for a closer inspection. Injector clamp was loose and threads for retaining bolts sheared off.

Removed injector, 10% of copper washer had worn away/dissapeared. (I was under the impression recall was carried out(aluminum washer) for this part as shown on recall website) Also the diesel return rail had snapped.

Decided to replace rocker cover, injector washer and return rail first. (got an aluminum washer). Retapped retaining bolt treads and replaced all componants. I primed and prepaired engine for firing. (engine Oil had been contaminated by diesel from broken return rail).

Engine started after a few turns but and a had knocking noise. Sounded like big end knock. I used a listening device and found the noise originated from the top side of the engine block.

Fearing engine was damaged, we decided to open up the cylinder head to check piston and cylinder walls.

While dismantling we noticed the other injector washers were aluminum. This leads me to believe the recall work wasnt carried out properly. A technician must have skipped one injector for whatever reason.

Pistons didnt have any noticable play, cylinder walls were fine. Inspected cylinder head and noticed amongst the regular carbon sot was a clean round mark about 5mm diameter. I had a hunch that the dissappeared part of the copper injector had melted into the cylinder. I found the melted copper part in the bowl of the piston(was covered in coolant and Oil, very difficult to see) EUREEKA!!! During combustion this piece must have been blasted around.

We rebuilt the engine and replaced one injected for piece of mind. Taking advice from this forum we opened the sump to check the Oil strainer. Its was clogged up.

We rebuilt the engine and all was fine.

We drove slowly to the nearest garage to reprogram/pair the new injector.


Job done!!!


I hope this helps over D4D owners.
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Well done wingman, the fitter who originally was supposed to change the injector seals should have seriously hard kick up the backside.

Still worth informing the dealer ?

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thxs dave,

It was actually very difficult isolating the knock. Its took me about 2 weeks on and off to sort this out and the 18 head bolts almost killed me.

Really no point contacting toyota, my brother was the 3rd owner.

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