Possible New Prius Owner

[sjrainsford]

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since i've been around here, but it's always been my home. I've gone away from Toyota ownership a number of times, but always ended back with them.

I'm currently looking at purchasing an 07 or 08 Prius from a dealer at somewhere around the £10k mark with under 40k on the clock. I've always really fancied owning one as I'm a strong believer in the development of electric and hybrid power working in electrical engineering myself.

So, as is often the case with first posts, I'd like to know what I'm getting myself in for. I currently drive a Jaguar X type diesel that only really manages 40mpg so anything more would be a bonus. It will also be doing about 10k a year business mileage. I'm guessing they're fairly bullet proof reliability wise in line with any other Toyota I've owned in the past. Perhaps if I bullet point my questions it will make answers easier...

1) How has your Gen2 been reliability wise?

2) Whats your average fuel consumption?

3) Has the stereo normally got aux in? I can't be without my iPod!

4) What is the hybrid warranty like?

5) Is there much difference between the T4 and T Spirit versions?

6) Finally, what should I look for when buying one?

Sorry for so many questions. But thanks so much in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply.

[capnbirdseye]

I'm in the same boat,However I am waiting for the current owners new Prius to arrive so I can get my hands on their 2007/57 spirit. 2007/08 Prius spirits seem to be in short supply altho a few Toyota dealers have one listed without photo's which means the vehicle's not yet arrived so once again it's awaiting new vehicles to arrive to make 2nd hand available.

A Toyota ship arrived at Bristol docks last week so new Prius arrival at dealers will be delayed because of snow

I discovered all the answers to my questions on this forum and others and I just wish the dealers reps would do the same because they seem to lack even the most basic knowledge of how the Prius works and the best way to drive get more mpg.

My friends just bought a brand new Prius 1.8 spirit straight out of the showroom window and asked about voice activation to be told that it's an extra on the spirit but not fitted unless ordered in advance like leather seats etc., needless to say his vehicle does have VA but what does that say about the sales rep

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Cootuk might be the chap to hear from. I remember him asking these very questions about a year ago whilst he was toying with selling his old Volvo and replacing it with a gen2 Prius.

He is still on these forums so I'm guessing he's still happy with his Prius, so maybe he'll post his comments?

The Prius is a good car and fun to drive - but a different kind of fun compared to a Celica! If you like new tech, you'll love the Prius.

[Jan&tone]

1) How has your Gen2 been reliability wise?

--- had it 2.5 years, problems? what problems, it's a Toyota

2) Whats your average fuel consumption?

---- 48-58mpg - depending on time of year and motorway mileage - I spent a fair bit of time on the Isle of Wight with my Gen2, the mpg actually went up over there, motorways tend to up the ante a bit with the gen2 1.5 engine...

3) Has the stereo normally got aux in? I can't be without my iPod!

---- yes, it's in the centre console.

4) What is the hybrid warranty like?

---- 8 years, so will probably last 10 or more, no manufacturer is going to give a warranty for the

exact life of the item being warrantied!

5) Is there much difference between the T4 and T Spirit versions?

---- wheels, satnav, intelligent park assist (gimmick but the rear view camera is awsome and should be fitted on ALL vehicles as standard. some options but can't remember much else

6) Finally, what should I look for when buying one?

---- can't help on this one, mine had done 15k when I swapped it for the Gen3 so was pretty much mint condition.

Sorry for so many questions. But thanks so much in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply.

Not too many questions! go for it, you won't regret the purchase, the Gen2 was my 8th Toyota and the best to date, the Gen3 is even better - I think they call it continual improvement

[sjrainsford]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Must admit, I'm really keen on getting one now with the more I read up on them. Best see if I can get a decent test drive in a Gen2 from the dealer. Normally second hand test drives are only a short run round with the sales person annoyingly sitting with you. I'd want at least an hour or two.

[cootuk]

We bought a facelift 2006 T3 so can't really comment about the audio features as we just have the basic radio/cd setup.

Worst case fuel economy for us, below zero temps and short runs, is about 40mpg.

Longer runs in summer sees over 50mpg, pure motorway/Aroads sees high 50s

Servicing - our dealers are good - ask your local taxi drivers what they are like. Seeing as you own a Celice you must have a fair idea of who you can trust to service the car, not that much needs doing.

Reliability - no issues so far though I will probably get the recall for the hybrid coolant pump replacement.

Tyre wear is good.

Brake wear is good.

Fairly good load space.

Not the best quality trim - we find the power windows aren't smooth when starting. Would you miss high levels of extras if changing from a premium marque?

Traction control can be a bit enthusiastic in reducing power, but this appears to be an issue for lots of automatics.

You learn which junctions will activate it if you're pulling out quick.

Plenty of power, even at motorway speeds. Just a bit different the way the engine changes when accelerating hard.

Not the usual progression in revs, but changes between different rev ranges.

Overall it meets our purchase remit of low tax, high mpg, low running costs.

We would definitely buy another,but a hybridised Rav4 would be tempting...or a Prius with four electric wheel motors.

Seeing as you're spending the best part of 10k, a lot of people hire one just for the day to get the extended test drive experience.

[sjrainsford]

Booked in for a test drive at Inchcape Derby after christmas in a Grey T Spirit. It must be the top spec model. Not for any reason other than I'd rather get as good as we can when second hand.

So do they all have reversing camera, sat nav and the JBL stereo system on the T spirit models? It's an 08 plate by the way.

It's going to be a little different to my tractor engined Jaguar X type estate!

[cootuk]

I thought they were options so best to check they are present and work properly.

Wasn't there someone on here who was told the car had reversing sensors, but they found they were fitted but wouldn't work?

Seeing is believing when it comes to second hand cars.

Double check you also get an extra remote, might even be keyless entry, and silly things like alloy wheel lock nut and tow bolt are there.

Also double check the drivers mat is secured down with the two clips.

[Jan&tone]

Booked in for a test drive at Inchcape Derby after christmas in a Grey T Spirit. It must be the top spec model. Not for any reason other than I'd rather get as good as we can when second hand.

So do they all have reversing camera, sat nav and the JBL stereo system on the T spirit models? It's an 08 plate by the way.

It's going to be a little different to my tractor engined Jaguar X type estate!

Gen2 t-spirit had all the toys as standard as far as i can remember from my 08 one

[r04drunner1]

Stuart - eerie similarities there:

1) I used to drive a Toyota Celica VVTi - loved it. (Review below)

2) My first Jaguar was a 3 litre AWD X-Type - ditto. (Review here)

I've gone for the Gen 3 Prius as a company car:

a] Because I could. B)

b] Because the economics versus running a privately owned 06 Jag S-Type 2.7 D were simply astonishing. I reckon I am saving £4k per year after tax. The main factors being the incredibly low BIK, no insurance costs and no maintenance charges.

c] Because I saw that the 1.8 has much better performance than the 1.5 litre.

Do get a good, long test drive across a variety of conditions including motorway.

I can't comment on the Gen 2 Prius due to a total lack of personal experience, although I do like the look of it. A colleague has one and loves it. Enjoy your drive!

R04drunner1

[fuel miser]

c] Because I saw that the 1.8 has much better performance than the 1.5 litre.

R04drunner1

Toyota's own quoted performance figures.

Gen2 max speed = 106, 0-62mph = 10.9

Gen3 max speed = 110, 0-62mph = 10.4

They only appear to be marginally better to me.

[r04drunner1]

They only appear to be marginally better to me.

You're right, the figures are closer than would be implied from my posting. A 0-60 of 10.4 secs would make the car comparible with the Mark 3 Golf GTi I used to own. Mind you, I'd seen a figure of 9.8 sec for the 0-60 time on a Gen 3, which is what I based my comparison on.

However it's the torque comparison that is more interesting. From the Priuschat forum:

Gen2: 295 lbs-ft

Gen3: 403 lbs-ft

More torque means better mid range acceleration, which is more useful in the everyday world.

Is the Gen 3 a quantum leap better than the Gen 2 for performance? I would say not. Is its performance significantly improved over the Gen 2? I would say "Yes" and I'm basing that on numerous press reviews, not just on the 0-60 figures.

I tend to ignore top speed anyway, as it's mostly irrelevant. My last two cars were both capable of more than twice the national speed limit but I never got up to that speed, not on our public roads! Honest! ;)

[dwilson]

Booked in for a test drive at Inchcape Derby after christmas in a Grey T Spirit. It must be the top spec model. Not for any reason other than I'd rather get as good as we can when second hand.

So do they all have reversing camera, sat nav and the JBL stereo system on the T spirit models? It's an 08 plate by the way.

It's going to be a little different to my tractor engined Jaguar X type estate!

I have a Gen 2 09 Grey T Spirit that I bought in August this year and it has reversing camera, sat nav and the JBL stereo system (as standard I believe). Very different from my previous car but the only thing I miss is the AWD in the snow.

[sjrainsford]

Turns out they've decided the grey T Spirit I was going to try isn't in stock now. They've got a few others such a T4 models, so any will do for test drive sake.

[fuel miser]

They only appear to be marginally better to me.

You're right, the figures are closer than would be implied from my posting. A 0-60 of 10.4 secs would make the car comparible with the Mark 3 Golf GTi I used to own. Mind you, I'd seen a figure of 9.8 sec for the 0-60 time on a Gen 3, which is what I based my comparison on.

However it's the torque comparison that is more interesting. From the Priuschat forum:

Gen2: 295 lbs-ft

Gen3: 403 lbs-ft

More torque means better mid range acceleration, which is more useful in the everyday world.

Is the Gen 3 a quantum leap better than the Gen 2 for performance? I would say not. Is its performance significantly improved over the Gen 2? I would say "Yes" and I'm basing that on numerous press reviews, not just on the 0-60 figures.

I tend to ignore top speed anyway, as it's mostly irrelevant. My last two cars were both capable of more than twice the national speed limit but I never got up to that speed, not on our public roads! Honest! ;)

Those torque figures are incorrect. From the Prius gen3 brochure the torque output of the electric motor is 207 lbs/ft, plus 142lb/ft from the petrol engine. Total = 349.

The gen2 Prius electric motor had 295lb/ft, plus 85lb/ft from the petrol engine. Total = 380.

Someone provided a good link with a detailed technical comparison of the 3 generations of Prius a few weeks ago, I've looked for it but can't find it as I can't remember which thread it was in or who posted it. However, the gen2 Prius defo has more torque than a gen3.

[Jan&tone]

They only appear to be marginally better to me.

You're right, the figures are closer than would be implied from my posting. A 0-60 of 10.4 secs would make the car comparible with the Mark 3 Golf GTi I used to own. Mind you, I'd seen a figure of 9.8 sec for the 0-60 time on a Gen 3, which is what I based my comparison on.

However it's the torque comparison that is more interesting. From the Priuschat forum:

Gen2: 295 lbs-ft

Gen3: 403 lbs-ft

More torque means better mid range acceleration, which is more useful in the everyday world.

Is the Gen 3 a quantum leap better than the Gen 2 for performance? I would say not. Is its performance significantly improved over the Gen 2? I would say "Yes" and I'm basing that on numerous press reviews, not just on the 0-60 figures.

I tend to ignore top speed anyway, as it's mostly irrelevant. My last two cars were both capable of more than twice the national speed limit but I never got up to that speed, not on our public roads! Honest! ;)

Those torque figures are incorrect. From the Prius gen3 brochure the torque output of the electric motor is 207 lbs/ft, plus 142lb/ft from the petrol engine. Total = 349.

The gen2 Prius electric motor had 295lb/ft, plus 85lb/ft from the petrol engine. Total = 380.

Someone provided a good link with a detailed technical comparison of the 3 generations of Prius a few weeks ago, I've looked for it but can't find it as I can't remember which thread it was in or who posted it. However, the gen2 Prius defo has more torque than a gen3.

I have a theory on that one, my gen3 is definitely not as pokey in 'normal' mode as my gen 2 was, however, if you push the pwr button on the gen3 .........

Someone mentioned that the gen2 had a 'pwr' button pushed all the time, could well be right as with that button pushed on the gen3 the response is similar to the Gen2 ...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Sounds like you've got the wrong oil in. My gen3 is more than pokey enough and more so in Power mode.

[r04drunner1]

Here's the thread I was referring to... Torque discussion

The figures I referred to came from a related post in another thread the other discussion on torque

I didn't want to go into the detail to complicate this thread, much less derail it.

In summary, while the torque generated by the electric motor is less on the Gen 3 (to get a lighter and more efficient electric motor) the torque at the wheels is greater for the Gen 3 than it is for the Gen 2. If it was less, then the Gen 3 would accelerate slower than the Gen 2.

We're both right. But my point about the better performance about the Gen 3 still stands.

However, to get back on topic, the Gen 2 performance sounds pretty close to the Gen 3 so the OP should still enjoy his ride once the dealership gets their act together!

[Jan&tone]

Sounds like you've got the wrong oil in. My gen3 is more than pokey enough and more so in Power mode.

Doubt it's the wrong oil, unless the factory put the wrong one in! car's only done 1500 miles, it's pokey enough but not quite as much as the Gen2 was unless you push the pwr button... either way, that's not why I bought it and the OP will enjoy whichever he buys!

[johalareewi]

... but the only thing I miss is the AWD in the snow.

Try some winter tyres on your prius. You might not miss AWD in the snow after all.

[fuel miser]

Here's the thread I was referring to... Torque discussion

The figures I referred to came from a related post in another thread the other discussion on torque

I didn't want to go into the detail to complicate this thread, much less derail it.

In summary, while the torque generated by the electric motor is less on the Gen 3 (to get a lighter and more efficient electric motor) the torque at the wheels is greater for the Gen 3 than it is for the Gen 2. If it was less, then the Gen 3 would accelerate slower than the Gen 2.

We're both right. But my point about the better performance about the Gen 3 still stands.

However, to get back on topic, the Gen 2 performance sounds pretty close to the Gen 3 so the OP should still enjoy his ride once the dealership gets their act together!

Sorry, I don't agree about the "torque at the wheels" bit, I can't see why it would be less on a gen2 when the figures say otherwise. A cars performance is not just determined by the torque output, it is also in conjunction with the horsepower output of the engine. The hybrid system on the gen2 had net bhp of 112, the gen3 has 134. That would surely explain the slight performance advantage of a gen3 over a gen2.

[sjrainsford]

Anywho...

What are they like on say a 200 mile trip? Mine will probably get a 400 mile trip twice a month so it would be nice if it doesn't mind sitting at motorway speeds for a decent period of time. I know that a diesel is better suited some may say, but it's just not for me if I'm honest. I'm also talking in terms of refinement here too, as I've found a lot of modern Toyotas to be quite boomy due to low levels of sound proofing.

[r04drunner1]

Anywho...

exactly mate - sorry, I didn't mean to ignite a Gen 2 v Gen 3 flame war on your thread. We'll leave it at that.

Doubtless somebody will be along in a minute to answer your question about the Gen 2 motorway cruise. If I tried to drive for that length of miles on Motorway in Northern Ireland, I'd run out of country.

[cootuk]

I've done several trips in my GenII where I fuel up in Bradford, M62 across to A1/M1, down to Leicester, loop round under Birmingham, then either M54 or old A5 to Shropshire, then A49 to Chester, M62 back to Bradford.

Quite comfortable, but not as good as my Volvo was - the Prius seats don't have the same level of minor adjustment to get exactly perfect.

But saying that the seating position is good, the footpedals and footrest are well placed, and the car will comfortably sit at 70mph for hours.

Plenty of poke for manouevering, though the Prius does induce a more chilled, relaxing driving style.

Add in high 50s mpg for the round trip and you've got pretty good motorway economy too.

I think some people are surprised to see a Prius fly past in the outside lane ;-)

Noise can be a bit raucous when you floor it, or accelerate from cruising, but that's just the engine switching speeeds to be most efficient. You don't get the build up of noise as you rev in a normal car, but more step changes in the engine noise. Not intrusive though, and certainly no where near what a sports exhaust would do to you. I had a stainless sports exhaust on my Volvo and that was noisy, really boomy at 70mph, so I would rate the Prius as being quiet with the exhaust but an acceptable engine noise when pushed...you really have to hear it to understand.

[fuel miser]

Anywho...

exactly mae - sorry, I didn't mean to ignite a Gen 2 v Gen 3 flame war on your thread. We'll leave it at that.

Doubtless somebody will be along in a minute to answer your question about the Gen 2 motorway cruise. If I tried to drive for that length of miles on Motorway in Northern Ireland, I'd run out of country.

Well someone has to defend them, there's been some nonsense spouted on here about the gen2 recently! "The values are about to plummet as they're no longer congestion charge exempt." - "They do 10mpg less than a gen3." - "The gen3 has much better performance." - "The gen3 has more torque". All I'm doing is correcting a few untruths from some rather exaggerating gen3 owners (perhaps us gen2 owners should have our own forum. :lol2: )

As for motorway trips, I'll do one of about 380 miles on Christmas day, I drove 760 miles in one day in my previous T4, I frequently do 450-500 mile journeys in a day. My previous wheels to the T4 were on a BMW 525d touring, the Prius is certainly no BMW to drive but then I didn't expect it to be. I find it comfortable, smooth, refined and quiet on long trips, so long as you don't try hammering it. Possibly a 2.0 TDi might return the same or slightly better mpg if you cruise at an indicated 80mph, but then an auto diesel certainly won't do 50mpg in city traffic.