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Which Claim Diesels More Fuel Efficient Than Hybrids


johalareewi
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Cyker.... I was assuming that, like petrol and diesel, there would be a common standard for the batteries, after all, they already make engines to run on the same standard of fuel so the cooperation has a precedent already.

I've no idea what the side of the car would look like to enable a Battery pack to be changed quickly though! Maybe we're encroaching on science fiction too much :yahoo:

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The thing with chemical fuel is nobody has patented it, but with batteries it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. The amount of patents on really stupid things just to stop competitors copying things from cell chemistry to casing shape is ridiculous.

This is why all laptops use different batteries and chargers even tho' the amp and voltage draws are generally the same.

You'd hope they could come to some sort of agreement on standards, but I'd imagine the arguments on things like connector format, voltages, safety margins etc. would lead to a fracturing unless they all agreed to go along with the decision of a central body...

Hopefully I'm just being overly pessimistic... :unsure: :D

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Regarding the charging infrastructure needed to make electric cars more widespread, the world is getting there. See Better Place story

Until then, the hybrid delivers a working compromise.

One day the oil (petrol or diesel) will run out. Electric seems to be ahead of hydrogen in the race to be the replacement fuel of choice.

Personally, I quite fancy a Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor... :thumbsup:

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I'm with you on the Mr Fusion!! :lol:

"My car is powered by BEER AND BANANA SKINS!! \o/"

One big irony is that when oil and gas run out we'll loose a lot of power generating capacity - The two main sources of power are coal and fission right now and I believe oil/gas to be the third.

Fission is gonna be a tough sell right now after what happened in Japan, but realistically is going to be the only real option unless someone cracks fusion (And even that will probably see opposition from the anti-nuclear types just because it has the word nuclear in it!)

Coal will run out but we've got a while yet for that.

It's a pity we can't just replace roofs with solar panels :lol:

That'd bring down a huge amount of power, albeit not base-load power.

Another problem with oil running out - Price of many rubbers and plastics will go through the roof :eek:

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The thing with chemical fuel is nobody has patented it, but with batteries it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. The amount of patents on really stupid things just to stop competitors copying things from cell chemistry to casing shape is ridiculous.

This is why all laptops use different batteries and chargers even tho' the amp and voltage draws are generally the same.

You'd hope they could come to some sort of agreement on standards, but I'd imagine the arguments on things like connector format, voltages, safety margins etc. would lead to a fracturing unless they all agreed to go along with the decision of a central body...

Hopefully I'm just being overly pessimistic... :unsure: :D

Cell chemistry is fairly universal in fact and does not vary from one nicad, nimh, or lead-acid Battery to another by any significant degree. The cases change shape in laptops and cameras simply to force punters to buy a manufacturers brand. Industrial cell sizes and shapes are simple cubes and rectangles.

Battery management is a science, something I have earned a good living from for over 25 years. In industry cells are managed across the board by every user and manufacturer by following prescribed procedures and regimes laid down by the cell manufacturers. That ensure that a charging system manufactured by company "A" can be replaced by a charger from company "B" and the batteries will be charged in precisely the same controlled way.

All that is required is the same universal approach to domestic vehicle cell management as the industrial electronics sector I work in has utilised in industrial apps for many decades. Its not a big deal, it just needs cooperation in the automotive industry to make it happen.

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...it just needs cooperation in the automotive industry to make it happen.

That bit there is the bit I am pessimistic about :lol:

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...it just needs cooperation in the automotive industry to make it happen.

That bit there is the bit I am pessimistic about :lol:

You and me both!

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That is interesting because the feel of a hybrid engine is completely different to a petrol or diesel engine (or a pony).

I'm quite sure they do feel different, but this would only be apparent whilst driving below 30mph?

It's the mid range pull of a diesel that i like most, and effortless overtaking. I'm sure a diesel hybrid would combine the economy and silence of a Prius (or other hybrid) whilst driving through towns, but also offer the torque i like when out on the A roads and Motorways.

Combine the two and i think it would give incredible MPG.

It is not just below 30, the feel is across the whole range from start all the way up to 70 and beyond. With the Prius, the power from both motors is blended to give you consistent pulling power and no gear changes. The torque comes from the electric motor(s). Take one for a test drive on the motorway. Our dealer was happy to let us have a demonstrator for an afternoon.

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That is interesting because the feel of a hybrid engine is completely different to a petrol or diesel engine (or a pony).

I'm quite sure they do feel different, but this would only be apparent whilst driving below 30mph?

It's the mid range pull of a diesel that i like most, and effortless overtaking. I'm sure a diesel hybrid would combine the economy and silence of a Prius (or other hybrid) whilst driving through towns, but also offer the torque i like when out on the A roads and Motorways.

Combine the two and i think it would give incredible MPG.

It is not just below 30, the feel is across the whole range from start all the way up to 70 and beyond. With the Prius, the power from both motors is blended to give you consistent pulling power and no gear changes. The torque comes from the electric motor(s). Take one for a test drive on the motorway. Our dealer was happy to let us have a demonstrator for an afternoon.

Thanks for the feedback, I will have to book a test drive next time I'm likey to be using a dealer.

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Going from a Toyota to a Citrus? That's not going to happen! :lol:

They are very comfy, but too many nightmare stories from friends who've owned them!

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Going from a Toyota to a Citrus? That's not going to happen! :lol:

They are very comfy, but too many nightmare stories from friends who've owned them!

Agreed !

David

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I'm not a fan of PSA after owning 2 cars from that stable, and seeing many more friends and family suffer with them too.

But, if PSA launch them, others will follow their lead, so i welcome their Deisel Hybrid, even if i won't be owning one.

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I still blame them for crippling the diesel Aygo :ffs:

If only they'd used Toyota's 74HP D4D instead of the crappy PSA 54HP HDi!

It would've been like greased lightning shi-err-effluent off of a shovel! :lol:

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I still blame them for crippling the diesel Aygo :ffs:

If only they'd used Toyota's 74HP D4D instead of the crappy PSA 54HP HDi!

It would've been like greased lightning shi-err-effluent off of a shovel! :lol:

Or the 1.6 110 HDi, that is a great little engine.

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I was by no way suggesting anyone would be a citroen. I believe all French cars are rubbish :-)

No doubt that will cause further debate and discussion and this will become one of thelongest threads on this forum

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Forogt to say got 53mpg out of my Honda civic diesel on the last tank. Changed my driving style to what I will drive like when the CT200 eventually arrives in the far and distant future.

Typically get 42mpg when driving like I stole it - lol

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I had a VW diesel and the cam belt was due and i was was quoted £500 approx. The Prius is chain driven and thats another advantage over diesel. Not sure which diesel engines are chain driven but cambelts change should be taken into account when buying a car.

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I had a VW diesel and the cam belt was due and i was was quoted £500 approx. The Prius is chain driven and thats another advantage over diesel. Not sure which diesel engines are chain driven but cambelts change should be taken into account when buying a car.

Chain's are not specific to hybrids or petrols.

My Current diesel has a chain, and my previous one did too.

Cam belts are an expensive part of servicing, but so are many other parts on most makes/models/engines of other cars.

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Yeah, I think most of the D4Ds have chains rather than belts.

The downside of chains is that they are noisier and you CAN'T skimp on servicing; Oil change once a year or every 10k minimum; None of that extended service interval crap!

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Yeah, I think most of the D4Ds have chains rather than belts.

The downside of chains is that they are noisier and you CAN'T skimp on servicing; Oil change once a year or every 10k minimum; None of that extended service interval crap!

Give me a chain over a crappy belt that fails if it gets a sniff of oil anytime. Cambelts really are one of the most idiotic ideas ever invented for cars whem you consider the horrendous damage that a failure creates, damaged valves, punched in piston rings crowns etc. I HATE cam belts!

Chains have automatic tentioners and as long as the oil is in good condition (only a complete idiot fails to change oil in his or her engine at the recommended intervals imo) they will last the life of the engine.

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Yeah, I do wonder why most cars use belts rather than chains; It seems to me that the benefits of a chain cam far outweighs the downsides!

But then I think the same thing about diesel vs petrol so I guess it's just one of those things :lol:

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But surely, the big brag with the Gen 3 Prius is that it doesn't have any belts at all?

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Yeah, I do wonder why most cars use belts rather than chains; It seems to me that the benefits of a chain cam far outweighs the downsides!

IIRC the rubber belt was introduced to quieten the old 60s & 70s engines that used to wear out in 60k miles. Modern engines have better tolerances and more efficient ways of keeping the chain tensioned and modern oils are infinitely much better, so the rubber cam belt is no longer necessary IMO.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8549076/UK-diesel-shortage-may-put-energy-security-at-risk.html

Reports that the UK is going to have a massive undercapacity for diesel production and will be even more prone to price shocks as both refining capacity is limited and green taxes make UK investment unappealing.

From what I see many people are swapping from large engine petrol vehicles to diesels as the cost of petrol is forcing cars off the road. I can see a very lucrative sideline in people selling homemade biodiesel (without tax paid) to their friends and family.

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