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Toyota? Honda? Ford?


tbourner
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Hi Guys,

I must have registered on here ages ago when I had the Supra/Yaris, and forgotten about you all. Sorry about that. Anyway I'm back now looking for some advice.

We want to get rid of our 22mpg Mitsubishi Delica and get an estate that's a bit more economical and much nicer generally - looking for top spec cars really.

Initially we looked at the Honda Accord i-CTDi Gen7 (03-08), but we've been warned off by the owners club due to them being HUGELY expensive to repair if they go wrong, and they DO go wrong. Things like clutches and DMFs, drive shafts, VSA modules, manifolds, basically if you own one you need £1500 stored somewhere 'just in case'!! We looked at the 2.0 iVTEC as an alternative but can't find a good EX with SatNav in tourer style. :( This is still top of our list at the moment though.

So now I've started looking at Ford Mondeo ST-TDCi. My mate at work has the saloon version and loves it, it's very nice, but obviously one happy owner is no sign of reliability - so I'll be researching on that one soon.

Now we come to you lot. The Avensis 2.2 D-4D. I've just read some scary threads about head gaskets. Is that the only thing to worry about? If I get one under 100k and 6 years old will I be safe for a while? Should I find one that's had it previously or try to find one that specifically hasn't? I'll be looking at a T-Spirit, are there any other gremlins to look out for? Should I think about a petrol model instead?

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Hi Guys,

I must have registered on here ages ago when I had the Supra/Yaris, and forgotten about you all. Sorry about that. Anyway I'm back now looking for some advice.

We want to get rid of our 22mpg Mitsubishi Delica and get an estate that's a bit more economical and much nicer generally - looking for top spec cars really.

Initially we looked at the Honda Accord i-CTDi Gen7 (03-08), but we've been warned off by the owners club due to them being HUGELY expensive to repair if they go wrong, and they DO go wrong. Things like clutches and DMFs, drive shafts, VSA modules, manifolds, basically if you own one you need £1500 stored somewhere 'just in case'!! We looked at the 2.0 iVTEC as an alternative but can't find a good EX with SatNav in tourer style. :( This is still top of our list at the moment though.

So now I've started looking at Ford Mondeo ST-TDCi. My mate at work has the saloon version and loves it, it's very nice, but obviously one happy owner is no sign of reliability - so I'll be researching on that one soon.

Now we come to you lot. The Avensis 2.2 D-4D. I've just read some scary threads about head gaskets. Is that the only thing to worry about? If I get one under 100k and 6 years old will I be safe for a while? Should I find one that's had it previously or try to find one that specifically hasn't? I'll be looking at a T-Spirit, are there any other gremlins to look out for? Should I think about a petrol model instead?

Hi mate and welcome back to the fold, Fords suffer just like most cars with dmf's injectors etc etc. I love my '07 2.2d4d hatch so i'm biased really but if you look at Toyota make sure it has full Toyota service history even if has only done 30k and over 3 years old. I like the power delivery from the 2.2 d4d along with the great mpg, I did 220 miles yesterday and it returned 61mpg average. The comfort and space in the car is great, the tourer must be fantastic but you need to test drive a few cars to satisfy your needs. If you go for the Avensis T-Spirit push the dealer for an free extended warranty and don't forget the 2 sets of keys and the satnav disc as replacements are very expensive.

Good luck with your search ...... Pete.:thumbsup:

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Now we come to you lot. The Avensis 2.2 D-4D. I've just read some scary threads about head gaskets. Is that the only thing to worry about? If I get one under 100k and 6 years old will I be safe for a while? Should I find one that's had it previously or try to find one that specifically hasn't? I'll be looking at a T-Spirit, are there any other gremlins to look out for? Should I think about a petrol model instead?

If you have been reading about the 2.2D HG problem then you know that Toyota have apparently extended the warranty on this engine for this problem to 112k/7 years - other people say that Ford/Vauxhall wouldn't have done similar.

How many miles per annum are you doing? If you are only doing something like 10K I would suggest looking at petrol (but be aware that 2005 & before VVTis had a valve problem resulting in high oil consumption).

As for the body itself - I find that it's a pleasant & comfortable cabin with lots of useful storage & quite a few toys (sat nav update discs are expensive).

Standard headlights are poor but a change of bulbs will make a big difference & the standard brake setup imo is adequate rather than good (again this can be remedied).

If you are an enthusiastic, press-on driver then a Mondeo will handle better (but probably depreciate more).

Mazda 6 may also be worth a look at?

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Never thought about a Mazda TBH, never really fancied one though. I'm not fussed about handling or performance really, but I do like the way diesels drive. My usage is easily more suited to a petrol, I just prefer diesels, that's kind of my issue cos I'll be mistreating it in the form of not getting it hot enough, and I don't want expensive repairs. I don't mind taking it to Honda/Toyota for servicing if that's what it needs I just don't want a £1500 bill looming over me.

I'm 3 miles from work, for personal medical reasons my wife won't walk/cycle her 1 mile to work so I usually end up dropping her off then going to work myself. I'm looking at getting a motorbike for commuting though and she's said she'll try to walk it more often, but basically I'm likely to be doing two 3 mile journeys 2 or 3 days a week. Then taking it out at weekends for long motorway runs of about an hour or 2. Yes Yes I know that's rubbish for ANY engine and a diesel is a ridiculous idea. I just love them.

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Well Neil Pinkett of Bathcars just sent me a pretty rude sounding email in response to an inquiry about an Avensis he has, so I won't be going there I don't think. I'd suggest nobody else does either.

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Well Neil Pinkett of Bathcars just sent me a pretty rude sounding email in response to an inquiry about an Avensis he has, so I won't be going there I don't think. I'd suggest nobody else does either.

It still amazes me that dealers give such a poor customer service these days, can they be THAT ignorant of technology and how easy it is to destroy their own reputation?

Anyway...

I left my Auris 2.2 to an Accord 2.0 Ex (8gen) and have not looked back.

If you want spec, you cannot do a lot better than the EX in my opinion, you are also getting a lot of quality as well.

Yes, they are dear to buy but it's something that should last very well, and that's worth the price.

Have you decided to go for diesel or petrol yet?

As someone else said, Mazda 6 is nice, and they have a very clever back seat folding lever which impressed me! Still a Ford in disguise though, personally I don't think much of Fords.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think you got that backwards mate...

Diesel engines normally outlast petrol engines by tens of thousands of miles, and the Ford Duratorq engines are often the most reliable part in their cars unless you count the door winders! :lol:

The Avensis headgasket problem seems to mainly be in the higher-capacity diesel engines, although I don't know how low the diesel models go.

The 1.8VVTi is quite a peppy engine tho', even for a petrol :P, so might be a viable alternative.

The Ford Mondeo estate is generally quite good, but it does get some odd niggles. I don't know anyone with a recent model, but the old ones are generally quite reliable.

Volvo or Subaru estates maybe? They seem to have good reps...

Oddly, not seen many recommendations for german estates! They seem to get high marks in reviews, but never hear much about them in the real world... We had an old merc estate but got rid of it after the electrical system basically died.

Don't think anyone I know has one...

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I think you got that backwards mate...

Diesel engines normally outlast petrol engines by tens of thousands of miles, and the Ford Duratorq engines are often the most reliable part in their cars unless you count the door winders! :lol:

That may have been true in the 90's when diesels weren't common rail but things are different now.

They have so many emissions based rubbish on them now that the problems they have when they break down cost a fortune to fix. The problems can be injectors, high pressure pumps, DPFs, EGRs, turbos, flywheels, oil pumps... to name but a few.

A Ford TDCi is one of the worse for reliability, as most people who have been unfortunate enough to own one will testify :)

RE: the german comment, search for the oil pump problem on the 2.0 PD diesel on VAGs and the 'black death' problem on Mercs to give you an idea.

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Go with the Avensis Tourer and you will be extremely pleased.

I am changing my car and looked around ar Ford, Honda, Renault, Mazda and VW. After checking things out I have decided to stay with Toyota as frankly they cannot be beaten on the equipment levels for the price :thumbsup:

I looked at the 2.2 diesel engine but ended up going for the 1.8 petrol as I do few miles. For me the extra purchase and fuel cost is just not worth it :huh:

If you are serious and want to buy a very good 2009 T4 2.0 petrol auto, with Toyota sat-nav, then think about mine as it is still on offer for a competitive price. Full Toyota service history and less than 9000 miles covered. I make no apologies for trying to sell my car to a TOC member as I would prefer it to go to a decent home. :thumbsup: I have this car for the next 3 weeks and if not sold it goes in p/x :huh:

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The Ford TDCi really is an awful engine. I've had one and I would never recommend one.

A Ford TDCi is one of the worse for reliability, as most people who have been unfortunate enough to own one will testify :)

Only the 2.0, the 2.2 TDCi is very good.

Volvo or Subaru estates maybe? They seem to have good reps...

Oddly, not seen many recommendations for german estates! They seem to get high marks in reviews, but never hear much about them in the real world... We had an old merc estate but got rid of it after the electrical system basically died.

Don't think anyone I know has one...

We looked at a Volvo V70 D5, low mileage but at the top end of our price range, definitely the best choice for us as it would likely last forever - but it didn't feel right, me and the wife sat in it, drove it and we both looked at each other with a frown, it wasn't particularly bland just didn't 'wow' us at all.

We also looked at Germans, wife hated BMW from the start, Mercs have expensive dealers and I don't like the image of them, wife liked the A4 Avant but I thought it was awfully cramped inside - I wouldn't want to drive it for long.

Have you decided to go for diesel or petrol yet?

Well, we ended up buying an Accord Tourer 2.2i-CTDi EX with SatNav and HFT. just under 90k but absolutely mint service history from Honda including all the tick sheets and everything! It's had the timing chain changed and the clutch in the last year - servicing garage told me the DMF was fine when they did the clutch, best of all it has the clicky clutch which is a common problem (my old 03 petrol had it), so best guess is they had the clutch changed trying to fix it (as I did on my old one!) not knowing it just needs greasing, the new clutch fixes it for about 6 months, so now it's returned they obviously px'd it for something else - which means that was probably the only problem with it! It was £1k less than most others we looked at, got a good px deal, just needs a new front tyre and MOT in October, plus it's got the usual stonechips and scratched spoiler which I'll try to fix.

Very happy anyway, hopefully it'll last me a good few years then I'll see what the latest models of everything are and go through all this again! :D

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The Ford TDCi really is an awful engine. I've had one and I would never recommend one.

A Ford TDCi is one of the worse for reliability, as most people who have been unfortunate enough to own one will testify :)

Only the 2.0, the 2.2 TDCi is very good.

Volvo or Subaru estates maybe? They seem to have good reps...

Oddly, not seen many recommendations for german estates! They seem to get high marks in reviews, but never hear much about them in the real world... We had an old merc estate but got rid of it after the electrical system basically died.

Don't think anyone I know has one...

We looked at a Volvo V70 D5, low mileage but at the top end of our price range, definitely the best choice for us as it would likely last forever - but it didn't feel right, me and the wife sat in it, drove it and we both looked at each other with a frown, it wasn't particularly bland just didn't 'wow' us at all.

We also looked at Germans, wife hated BMW from the start, Mercs have expensive dealers and I don't like the image of them, wife liked the A4 Avant but I thought it was awfully cramped inside - I wouldn't want to drive it for long.

Have you decided to go for diesel or petrol yet?

Well, we ended up buying an Accord Tourer 2.2i-CTDi EX with SatNav and HFT. just under 90k but absolutely mint service history from Honda including all the tick sheets and everything! It's had the timing chain changed and the clutch in the last year - servicing garage told me the DMF was fine when they did the clutch, best of all it has the clicky clutch which is a common problem (my old 03 petrol had it), so best guess is they had the clutch changed trying to fix it (as I did on my old one!) not knowing it just needs greasing, the new clutch fixes it for about 6 months, so now it's returned they obviously px'd it for something else - which means that was probably the only problem with it! It was £1k less than most others we looked at, got a good px deal, just needs a new front tyre and MOT in October, plus it's got the usual stonechips and scratched spoiler which I'll try to fix.

Very happy anyway, hopefully it'll last me a good few years then I'll see what the latest models of everything are and go through all this again! :D

Good choice :thumbsup:

Might see you around the Accord's owners club, pm'ed you the link.

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Hi,

I drive a Mazda 6 2.0D Tourer and have covered 108,000 miles since new (Sept. 2008). I have had various problems re. DPF and related error codes.

On several occasions it has went in to the garage to have the ECU reset and the oil drained. If it is not seen to the engine can be wrecked.The last time it was in the garage it was diagnosed as needing a new DPF at a cost of £1600. Needless to say the lease company did not pay this.They sent a courier to collect it(from Belfast) and had it reconditioned in Newcastle-U- Tyne.

If you are only doing small mileage and little high speed driving I would stay clear of the Mazda.

It does have good usable space and the seat folding mechanism is good,the ride quality is a little on the firm side.

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It does have good usable space and the seat folding mechanism is good,the ride quality is a little on the firm side.

It can't be as good as the Honda rear seats, single action full folding!

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It does have good usable space and the seat folding mechanism is good,the ride quality is a little on the firm side.

It can't be as good as the Honda rear seats, single action full folding!

I have heard the same said about Mercedes, VW, Ford, Renault etc..... such things are always said by the owners ;)

We drive what we drive because we prefer what we drive. I still prefer the Avensis :thumbsup::lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Skoda Superb 2 Estate :-)

20% VAT Free promotion on on new ones at the moment as well.

My Current Superb 2 SE Plus knocks the spots of my 2010 Avensis TR for Equipment levels, and with the current deals was just under £20k for the 1.8 TSi. Build quality and material quality is also in a different league, and I got 3 free service vouchers, which with servicing every 20k cover me for around 3 years.

I am a Skoda Fanboy though having had A Fabia vRS, Octavia vRS, Superb L&K, Octavia 2.0 PD140 DSG before dipping into Toyota's briefly with a Prius that was a fantastic car, but not for me with my mileage, and an Avensis 2.0 D4D TR, which was a pig, a pup, a shonky piece of crap that I am so glad to see the back of.

Superb_est_10.jpg

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The ford 2.2 Duratorq is awfull!

Plagued with EGR issues and the injectors are less reliable. Expect to change them any where between 15-60k!

If you want proof of this, take a look at the STdriveRS forum!

I had mine for 10 months and had so many problems with it (most common issues and known to Ford) that I had to get rid of it.

Expect to see:

EGR failure.

Injector problems/failure

ST rear bumper dropping under own weight

Corroding alloys

Boost pipe splitting

Exhaust breaking under strain of bumper sitting on it

6CD player refusing to give CD's back if you use more than 5 of the slots

(rare but happened to me) High pressure fuel pump failure

Heated windscreen failing on one side or maybe both

Heated seats being temperamental

Sorry if this seems like a list of woe, and i'm sure you'd be unlucky to own a car with all these faults (unless you buy my old ST) but most of those problems are very common, so expect to see one of them during ownership.

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The Skoda cars regularly get superb reviews and owners seem to be very happy.

My Avensis has been superb, quiet economical good mpg and fast enough for me.

I feel that when I change cars again I should check out the Skoda Superb but I still cannot get past the Skoda name, maybe that is my issue but it seems to be prevalent amongst buyers of a certain age, maybe it will pass.

That said I do love my Toyota and I have received excellent customer service.

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Having owned a Skoda and being the butt of many jokes in the past, I can assure you that there is nothing more satisfying than passing 'faster' non skoda's on a motorway or bypass and seeing their face as you go by!

I once had a work colleague try the old 'heated rear window' joke about my Fabia vRS, so i challenged him to try and keep up with me in his 2.2 Vauxhal Omega and even offered a £10 prize if he could beat me. He lost!

I also used to enjoy asking if the people who 'would never own a skoda' would like an Audi or VW built on the same chassis, and nearly all of them said they would, so would lift the bonnet of my car and show them the VW/Audi/SEAT badges on every engine component, and they would often go quiet and not mention the Skoda Badge again.

They are fantastic cars IMO and the stigma surrounding the Badge doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact my next car will probably be an Octavia vRS.

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Somebody mention Audi ? see post #2

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102760

And I believe there are still far to many horror stories and mega expensive issues just waiting to happen on current models. These problems often crop up in Honest Johns supplement in the Sunday Telegraph with owners facing 1-2K bills for what have become stock faults on things such as ABS systems for one.

Since the above posting of mine the TSport made it to 8 yrs troublefree and was still on original pads/discs.

Replaced with a new Auris 18 months ago... brilliant :)

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Skoda's are ok but I don't see why they have to take a Passat and make it uglier with an awful grille that looks like it came from a Rover.

I'm sure they're good cars though, unless you buy an older one with a 2.0 PD in it...

So an Avensis grille is pretty? that's the blandest bit of the cars design, Toyota got it so right with the T27 from most angles with things like the flared arches but then spoilt it with a squishy bland grille. My old PD140 with DSG was remapped and had other subtle tweaks and ran 205 bhp & 410nm Torque for 66k miles over years and the current owner is up to 102k miles with no major issues.

My Avensis had park brake failures (Plural), a DPF failure, squeaks and rattles, and plenty of other niggles that led me to get rid of it, not at all what I expected from what is supposedly one of the most reliable brands in the world.

Skoda's are more than just good cars, bang for bucks I don't think you can beat them. I was in an E-Class merc taxi in Copenhagen today, the interior materials where not as good as my superb. I'm getting 41mpg out of my 1.8TSi (Petrol) on a run to work in Scotland averaging 66mph (over a 420 mile journey), the EA88 engine is a short stroke 2.0 TSi engine so it's silent at low rev's, chain driven cams and will rev to 7k if needed. Mine has a custom remap taking it to 220bhp and 360ish nm torque.

Willy banging apart, people should get over the Badge and test drive one, you will even find that the dealers know what they are selling and servicing (search for Gen 3 Prius oil for example). My experience was marred by a bad Avensis and a lacklustre, bordering on negligent dealer.

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Skoda's are ok but I don't see why they have to take a Passat and make it uglier with an awful grille that looks like it came from a Rover.

I'm sure they're good cars though, unless you buy an older one with a 2.0 PD in it...

So an Avensis grille is pretty? that's the blandest bit of the cars design, Toyota got it so right with the T27 from most angles with things like the flared arches but then spoilt it with a squishy bland grille. My old PD140 with DSG was remapped and had other subtle tweaks and ran 205 bhp & 410nm Torque for 66k miles over years and the current owner is up to 102k miles with no major issues.

My Avensis had park brake failures (Plural), a DPF failure, squeaks and rattles, and plenty of other niggles that led me to get rid of it, not at all what I expected from what is supposedly one of the most reliable brands in the world.

Skoda's are more than just good cars, bang for bucks I don't think you can beat them. I was in an E-Class merc taxi in Copenhagen today, the interior materials where not as good as my superb. I'm getting 41mpg out of my 1.8TSi (Petrol) on a run to work in Scotland averaging 66mph (over a 420 mile journey), the EA88 engine is a short stroke 2.0 TSi engine so it's silent at low rev's, chain driven cams and will rev to 7k if needed. Mine has a custom remap taking it to 220bhp and 360ish nm torque.

Willy banging apart, people should get over the Badge and test drive one, you will even find that the dealers know what they are selling and servicing (search for Gen 3 Prius oil for example). My experience was marred by a bad Avensis and a lacklustre, bordering on negligent dealer.

Tell it like it is mate, glad to see you are still having some input ....;).

We still haven't met up,

Pete. :thumbsup:

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Having owned a Skoda, Ford and Toyota I can honestly say that my Skoda was the best on fuel and most fun to drive. The Toyota is a bit more grown up, and still makes me smile but isn't really a fun car. The Ford was god awful and I really wish i could have afforded to drive it off a cliff rather than trade it in so some other poor sod ends up with it.

The Badge means nothing at the end of the day, and the JD power survey usually proves Skoda to be quite reliable:

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2011/the-results/257096

Lexus at the top of manufacturers.

Skoda 3rd

Toyota 10th

Ford 18th (average)

Given that these results are from owners of these cars, there is probably better feedback than from of any of us who like or dislike a car simply because it has a Badge that we have heard of.

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So an Avensis grille is pretty? that's the blandest bit of the cars design, Toyota got it so right with the T27 from most angles with things like the flared arches but then spoilt it with a squishy bland grille. My old PD140 with DSG was remapped and had other subtle tweaks and ran 205 bhp & 410nm Torque for 66k miles over years and the current owner is up to 102k miles with no major issues.

My Avensis had park brake failures (Plural), a DPF failure, squeaks and rattles, and plenty of other niggles that led me to get rid of it, not at all what I expected from what is supposedly one of the most reliable brands in the world.

Skoda's are more than just good cars, bang for bucks I don't think you can beat them. I was in an E-Class merc taxi in Copenhagen today, the interior materials where not as good as my superb. I'm getting 41mpg out of my 1.8TSi (Petrol) on a run to work in Scotland averaging 66mph (over a 420 mile journey), the EA88 engine is a short stroke 2.0 TSi engine so it's silent at low rev's, chain driven cams and will rev to 7k if needed. Mine has a custom remap taking it to 220bhp and 360ish nm torque.

Willy banging apart, people should get over the badge and test drive one, you will even find that the dealers know what they are selling and servicing (search for Gen 3 Prius oil for example). My experience was marred by a bad Avensis and a lacklustre, bordering on negligent dealer.

There's a difference between plain cars and ugly cars. I can live with a plain car, but not an ugly one ;)

The Skoda Badge is no issue at all for me, as everyone knows they're now just cheap VAGs, like Seats. And my opinion of Toyota reliability is a very low one and I certainly would not own one again. To be honest, I'm struggling to decide what my next car will be as most seem to sub-par reliability wise, especially as I'm doing 20k miles a year.

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