Valeo Dmf Clutch Kit

[*srjp*]

The clutch pedal started grinding and vibrating yesterday moving off from standstills in first gear. The noise and vibration seem completely intermittent at the moment (at first I thought it was the power steering as it occurred when turning the wheel too) but I've also noticed the exhaust blowing/growl affect and can only imagine the inevitable is going to happen on a 4.2 D4D @ 72k miles.

Being in France everything is shut on Sundays so I've no way of getting it seen until tomorrow - well, no Tuesday or Wednesday realistically - but have started looking up the necessary parts already.

The Valeoservices site is non-descript to say the least - I'm not capable of identifying such parts by sight - and the eBay vendor flogging them only stocks the single / solid replacement clutch kit. At just under £200 this seems considerably cheaper than the prices banded around in the DMF threads.

If Valeo also do a dual flywheel kit would someone provide the part number please (and how much is it?)?

Has anyone fitted or at least examined one of these £200 jobbies?

Thanks

[anchorman]

Valeo dmf's are stocked by good motor factors and there are many smf's available. I paid a bit more for a jap made kit when my mate insisted on an smf.

[*srjp*]

Thank you for the reply once again, Anchorman.

By 'insisted' do you mean you're still not a great believer in the single versions - and has your mate encountered any issues with his?

I got a quote in a local 4x4 garage this afternoon (as soon as I mentioned Rav4 and clutch vibration he started talking about the flywheel being a known issue; they've done a few already) and they want approx 900 Euros for the parts and a further 900 to fit them.

If I can order the alternative bits for 250 delivered via eBay and pay 900 to have them fitted that's clearly preferential... I wouldn't keep the car more than 4 years and do max 15k miles a year so am not too concerned about longevity beyond that.

Any thoughts?

[anchorman]

I have to stick to my original belief that these manufacturers have got some evidence that a DMF will cause less long term damage than a SMF. Now having said that, there are advocates of the SMF that swear by them and are happy to forgoe what ever it is that Toyota (and all the others) want to avoid. I have fitted one and it had a beefed up drive plate rather than the DMF radial springs. I have also driven that motor and I have to say it seemed equally smooth.

I guess your £250 punt will last you 4 years as long as you don't have too much grief in store for it.

[*srjp*]

I never tow with it however the mountain environment here is harsh on engine load so I'll have to weigh that up. The warranty on the Valeo kits is apparently 4 years, doubt that covers damage to the drive-train however.

First step is a proper test at the garage on Wed afternoon and then to see if I can get a well-known third party warranty company to cover the bulk of 1800 tab to do it correctly, however I fear they'll weasel out based on me being outside of the UK. Suppose I could feasibly try and drive it back but perhaps 1k miles on a bust clutch is pushing it...

Thanks as always for your input.

EDIT: just noticed the eBay vendor I linked to previously has changed his advert. Price increase by approx. 90GBP and advert states clutch parts are VALEO but flywheel is not specified. So that makes a difference. Only VALEO flywheel I can find is more than the local garage wants anyway. Have to get that quote confirmed.

[Molnboman]

Hej

Just picking up on the great DMF swindle....and I totally agree and believe the manufacturers knew after production that fitting DMF's were going to cause a massive problem but have covered the issue up. I am talking in particular about GM with their Fiat z1.9cdti dth engines which were in all Chevrolet Captivas, Saabs and Vauxhall/ Opels. I know of so many people with these engines where the DMF has fried.....I am one of them....and despite customer's protestations the manufacturer, they say "DMF!....we have never had any problems with that!"

A case in point is the owner of my local garage who owns a 1.9cdti Captiva ( poor chap )and he had to pay €1800 fora new DMF/Clutch kit......and he is in the business! Chevrolet swear blind that he is the first customer who has complained!.....Lies Lies Lies!.....It cost me nealy £2k to sort my engine out.....

I understand Toyota had similar issues reading previous posts. I believe Ford/Mazda have already ditched DMF's all together......case closed!

A painful history in diesl engine manufacturing!....Rant over!

[anchorman]

Not sure if you mean DMF or DPF here Allan.

[Molnboman]

Apologies Anchorman.....I have problems with both! hahaha That's why I have a RAV4 now!

I have edited the post. I was referring to the Dual Mass Flywheel.

Cheers

A

[anchorman]

There lies one of our greatest ever debates.

I have no doubt that work has been done to confirm that a DMF is instrumental in reducing transmission fatigue but it seems that a well made SMF can provide a suitable alternative.

[*srjp*]

So, just collected the Rav from the garage and am 2k euros worse off.

Clutch does feel smoother and car a fair bit quieter, but I've been driving an ancient Saxo for three days so direct before and after comparison is tricky.

Should I notice anything else, perhaps acceleration or fuel consumption improved? Trying to find justification for this expense...

p.s. Despite original quote of around 900 for parts and a further 900 for labour, the invoice shows 1500 for parts and 600 for labour. Perhaps their supplier caught them out but at least they kept to the quote by cutting their time.

[Mistermena]

Just to add my pennies worth here on SMF v DMF. Sorry to hijack the post...

My VW Polo 1.4 TDi has a SMF and even after over 200k of learner drivers thrashing the hell out of it still works well. The question I'd like to know is what clutch kit to buy when its finally given up the ghost? LUK (That make them for the likes of Mr T ect) or Sachs? Or is there other makes out there that are equally as good but a lot cheaper?

I bought a genuine Toyota clutch kit (LUK) for my Avensis T180 when that packs in from the one and only Anchs Many thanks again for that to pal :yahoo:

[anchorman]

No problem - it became redundant when I got this Soul. I doubt there will be much to choose from any of the big brands and it will be oh so much easier to fit!

srjp - Apart from maybe a lighter clutch, there are no other real benefits - only some peace of mind that it won't fail at short notice.

[*srjp*]

srjp - Apart from maybe a lighter clutch, there are no other real benefits - only some peace of mind that it won't fail at short notice.

Feared as much, but yes you're quite right about the piece of mind. I just can't quite stomach that my last car (which I preferred in many ways to this one) cost less to buy than this repair has...

[anchorman]

This one will earn its stripes when the snow comes!

[*srjp*]

Sooo... Just to bring this topic to conclusion, Warranty Direct have reimbursed just over two thirds of the expense of this sordid job. They wouldn't cover the clutch parts but covered the DMF and all the labour as it's all done at the same time. There were various deductions based on the age and mileage of the vehicle but anyone holding such a policy should be aware of these anyway.

Hallelujah, as they say!

[anchorman]

You are lucky. Warranty firms rarely pick up any of the cost of this job.

[*srjp*]

You are lucky. Warranty firms rarely pick up any of the cost of this job.

I agree luck plays a large part in any demand for reimbursement from a third party, especially insurance firms, but - IMO as someone well outside the motor-trade - I suspect these warranties get most of their bad press because people don't read the small print and either initially buy an inappropriate level of cover or don't call to seek pre-approval before getting repairs done. Thanks to the extensive discussion and details on this forum I understood the expensive risk in buying an '04 model diesel and looked at the warranty policies for one that would specifically take on the DMF (with WD their 'Extra Care' covers flywheel, turbo and 4x4 systems). The second chap I spoke to at WD claimed to have previously worked for Toyota, was well aware of the historic problem, and didn't ask for any lengthy assessments or reports from the garage.

Earlier this year they paid out to replace the fuel regulator valves and the mechanic there also expressed surprise that they agreed it immediately, but that job itself cost more than the annual policy cost so to then pay out for the DMF as well suggests to me they are honourable - I've been nothing but a loss to them. I did have to phone up to chase the DMF claim after a month but it was apparently just sitting in a 'to be reviewed' pile and I was called back within two hours to be told it had been approved by the supervisor.

I hope the major issues are now resolved on this car, and so the policy has efficiently served its purpose. I'd be inclined to renew it just out of satisfaction at their service to date but have decided to export my car permanently to the continent and as such it would no longer be eligible.

[Tech01]

A brief long-term report on how my conversion to a Blueprint SMF has faired . . .

RAV4.2 D4D, new Aug.2003

Original DMF and clutch gave up after 52k mi, and 4years 3months.

Final symptoms were vibration and rumbling at low/med revs, and quite unpleasant gear changes, and poor hill starts. The usual slight jingly-jangly noises began, as did hours of reading on the web about DMF failures worldwide.

In the hope that Toyota's "modified" DMF would sort the problem, I fitted a complete Toyota DMF and clutch kit (also "modified"), at about 400euro for the kit. Old DMF had plenty of rotational backlash (around 20deg rotation), and the friction plate was down to its rivets. The replacement worked OK, and at least as well as the original, until 25k miles (and 1y 8m) later, when the clutch spectacularly started slipping, and then lost all drive a day later.

Enough was enough, and I decided to fit a SMF conversion, in July 2009. Valeo (UK) HQ were really helpful, and apologised for not being able to supply a SMF 4-piece kit for the Toyota, even though they listed these "alternative" kits for most other makes of vehicle. Some diplomatic questioning suggested that this lack of a Toyota kit was for commercial rather than technical reasons, and they wouldn't expand further. I can only assume that Valeo supply Toyota with something or other, and...

So, the Toyota DMF was removed. Flywheel had only around 5deg of backlash, but the friction plate was utterly shredded: fibreglass string and powdered resin-based lining all over the place.

We fitted Blueprint's 4-part SMF kit, ADT330206, with no problems. Kit cost was approx 250euro. That was at 68k mi, July 2009. The vehicle now has 87,500mi on the clock, as of today, Nov.2011.

So, what is the SMF like to drive? It drives just like a normal clutch should be - gentle, progressive and predictable, and, so far, reliable. I never liked the original DMF/clutch action (nor its "modified" replacement): hill starts were difficult without high revs, and progress was somewhat lurchy and lumpy at low revs (1000-1200), which a decent diesel should do without issue. I have NEVER worn out a clutch in my life (driving since 1966), and taken more than one vehicle up to 200k mi. When we bought the RAV new in 2003, I even managed to stall it three times when backing it off the showroom floor!

I haven't noticed any increase in vibration, even at tickover and and very low revs. The SMF just seems to work.

Chris