Diesel 2Ad Engine - Doom And Gloom

[Manxrav]

Spot on Anchs, you cannot compare a tin of Tesco Value beans to a tin of Heinz beans.It,s al done to price!!! It therefore follows that the same applies to "Supermarket" fuel, it,s down to price.

Regards Clare

[jedi134]

If i put Tesco beans into a Heinz beans can, I wonder how many of you would actually notice?

You may stop for a moment and think......hmmmmm these are a bit runny, but then convince youself every think is ok because of the big shinny branded Heinz wrapper on the front.

Be truthful now. :-)

[Davrav]

Well, the colour and viscocity would be a dead give away for a start ;)

[Mistermena]

My Avensis T-180 (2007) states that the oil should be a C2 spec for D-CAT, but if not available then a B2 spec can be used. My Mrs has the car today so when she gets home tonight I'll get the owners manuel out of the glove box and have a look...

[dervdave]

Why are you confused? Its quite simple, they are still fitting 3/4 engines and they may consume fully synthetic oil. Well done Crusty - looking good.

Why confused ? On another thread Don You insisted that the engines will not consume oil Toyota that's both the dealer and TGB say the engine should not burn oil. Now You say they can burn oil ...... From the other thread Using thin oil doesn't make any difference to oil consumption or protection. You cannot compress a fluid, using a lower viscosity allows you to pump it around very small spaces very quickly and reduces friction so increasing economy. Does this help to explain My confusion ??

I don't know what I've said to confuse you Charlie. The spec for these T180 engines is B2 (look in the data sheets pinned). I know for a fact that Guy was sold B2 oil for his T180 because I changed it for him (Kev has seen the bottle). It seems that some people are fitting C2 low ash oil in early models but in fact that is for post 2009 models according to the data sheets. Now I must admit that I was confused for a while with all this oil spec business and I had to do a lot of reading before I started to get the picture. However, we can summarise by saying that B2 is semi-synthetic and C2 is fully synthetic (as far as Toyota are concerned). Neither Guys T180 or any of the other 2AD engines that RRG have fitted for my mates are using (burning) B2 oil but you said that your engine started to use oil after you changed it to C2 oil. It is a fact that fully synthetic oil can make its way into the upper cylinder so given that and your account we can do no other than assume your oil consumption is down to the fully synthetic oil. Unless something failed on your engine at the same time as you changed your oil there is no other explanation as it only started to consume oil from when you put in the fully synthetic. I only know Hoovie with a post 2009 2AD that should have C2 oil in from new so until he gives us some info we don't know if this applies to the new 150 engine. Does it matter if an engine consumes oil? Well clearly it is better if it doesn't but a small amount isn't harmful and fully synthetic oil in a new engine is forgiveable but I would hope it settles after a while. I will photograph my dipstick if I get chance tomorrow and you will see that it has niether moved or changed colour in the 1100 miles it has been in. I don't know why my comment about thin oil is confusing either. It is a fact that very high performance engines go for very thin oil for the reasons stated. I know for a fact that Audi are advocates of 0W/20 oil to aid fuel economy/circulation and it is pumped around very quickly even when very cold. The thickness is irrelevant. You can no more compress water than you can 90s gear oil but you would sieze an engine if you tried to pump gear oil around it. I do feel strongly that significant oil consumption and poor fuel is a recipe for disaster. My mates 57 plate Discovery has to have 2 EGRs fitted that have been knackered by it (according to LR). I don't want to cause any confusion and I don't think I've changed my tune (I can't think what I have posted that sounds that way - can you find it?). Its a shame that you feel uncomfortable about your new engine and I will be sorry to see you change but if you feel so strongly and don't want to wait it really is up to you. I think with all the other niggles you have just lost confidence now - some people are perfectionists and some will tolerate rattles like a bag of pots. I think I am somewhere inbetween although I like everything tickety boo. I used to be manic about rattles and squeaks but driving 22 year old trains cured that.

Good answer Don

[CharlieFarlie]

Why are you confused? Its quite simple, they are still fitting 3/4 engines and they may consume fully synthetic oil. Well done Crusty - looking good.

Why confused ? On another thread Don You insisted that the engines will not consume oil Toyota that's both the dealer and TGB say the engine should not burn oil. Now You say they can burn oil ...... From the other thread Using thin oil doesn't make any difference to oil consumption or protection. You cannot compress a fluid, using a lower viscosity allows you to pump it around very small spaces very quickly and reduces friction so increasing economy. Does this help to explain My confusion ??

I don't know what I've said to confuse you Charlie. The spec for these T180 engines is B2 (look in the data sheets pinned). I know for a fact that Guy was sold B2 oil for his T180 because I changed it for him (Kev has seen the bottle). It seems that some people are fitting C2 low ash oil in early models but in fact that is for post 2009 models according to the data sheets. Now I must admit that I was confused for a while with all this oil spec business and I had to do a lot of reading before I started to get the picture. However, we can summarise by saying that B2 is semi-synthetic and C2 is fully synthetic (as far as Toyota are concerned). Neither Guys T180 or any of the other 2AD engines that RRG have fitted for my mates are using (burning) B2 oil but you said that your engine started to use oil after you changed it to C2 oil. It is a fact that fully synthetic oil can make its way into the upper cylinder so given that and your account we can do no other than assume your oil consumption is down to the fully synthetic oil. Unless something failed on your engine at the same time as you changed your oil there is no other explanation as it only started to consume oil from when you put in the fully synthetic. I only know Hoovie with a post 2009 2AD that should have C2 oil in from new so until he gives us some info we don't know if this applies to the new 150 engine. Does it matter if an engine consumes oil? Well clearly it is better if it doesn't but a small amount isn't harmful and fully synthetic oil in a new engine is forgiveable but I would hope it settles after a while. I will photograph my dipstick if I get chance tomorrow and you will see that it has niether moved or changed colour in the 1100 miles it has been in. I don't know why my comment about thin oil is confusing either. It is a fact that very high performance engines go for very thin oil for the reasons stated. I know for a fact that Audi are advocates of 0W/20 oil to aid fuel economy/circulation and it is pumped around very quickly even when very cold. The thickness is irrelevant. You can no more compress water than you can 90s gear oil but you would sieze an engine if you tried to pump gear oil around it. I do feel strongly that significant oil consumption and poor fuel is a recipe for disaster. My mates 57 plate Discovery has to have 2 EGRs fitted that have been knackered by it (according to LR). I don't want to cause any confusion and I don't think I've changed my tune (I can't think what I have posted that sounds that way - can you find it?). Its a shame that you feel uncomfortable about your new engine and I will be sorry to see you change but if you feel so strongly and don't want to wait it really is up to you. I think with all the other niggles you have just lost confidence now - some people are perfectionists and some will tolerate rattles like a bag of pots. I think I am somewhere inbetween although I like everything tickety boo. I used to be manic about rattles and squeaks but driving 22 year old trains cured that.

Good answer Don

Very good answer !!

Let Me say that I have utmost respect for Don and His far far superior knowledge and I always greatly value His opinion ..

But I asked on here before putting the Castrol oil in the car and was assured it was just fine....

The Dealer and TGB also agree its fine and are prepared to fit another engine if it is burning that fully synthetic Castrol oil so who do I believe ?

My intention now is to get this issue sorted and sell the car ASAP. I will not be trading it in as the value of the car is so low now as a trade in it makes My eyes water.......

I really cant wait to get rid now. I have I think gone through enough grief with the car and just simply hate the darn thing now..

I am removing the winter wheels and tyres and all the other gear that I have fitted over the last few months ready to sell the car as none of this kit will add value to it in a private sale....

[dervdave]

I really cant wait to get rid now. I have I think gone through enough grief with the car and just simply hate the darn thing now..

Lifes ower short to be griefing over a !Removed! car, get shot of it there are plenty more fish in the sea !

[Mistermena]

I really cant wait to get rid now. I have I think gone through enough grief with the car and just simply hate the darn thing now..

Lifes ower short to be griefing over a !Removed! car, get shot of it there are plenty more fish in the sea !

Is that the dating website?

[CharlieFarlie]

I really cant wait to get rid now. I have I think gone through enough grief with the car and just simply hate the darn thing now..

Lifes ower short to be griefing over a !Removed! car, get shot of it there are plenty more fish in the sea !

My point exactly....

[dervdave]

I really cant wait to get rid now. I have I think gone through enough grief with the car and just simply hate the darn thing now..

Lifes ower short to be griefing over a !Removed! car, get shot of it there are plenty more fish in the sea !

My point exactly....

Although the old model wasn`t up to much, the new BMW x3 sounds like it could be a corker though.

The Fifth Gear team liked it.

http://fwd.channel5....eam-test-bmw-x3

[Manxrav]

The previous model X3 was not a bad motor. The problem I had with it was that for what you got you paid a lot for it. The T180 i had previous to the X3 was all singing and dancing, to put the same spec into an X3 would have cost you another £5000, on top of your basic price.Engine was 2ltr diesel quality engine!!! but the rest left alot to be desired.

The new facelift model now thats a different ballgame, but it still costs you to upgrade to this and that.

Regards Clare

[anchorman]

I've got 12 litres of fully synthetic (but B2 grade) that will be going in mine next time and the time after. I can't wait to see if it consumes some. The only difference could be that it will have done over 10k by then.

Jedi

I will buy a tin of each beans next time and do you a report.

However, my engine doesn't run on beans. If I had the two tins of beans anylised, I reckon that we could determin how much of the weight was beans, how much was water/sauce and then things like salt, sugar etc.

That is what I would really like from one of the useless comparison sites - a proper detailed analysis with tests on the fuel, not running cars around.

[MarsKy]

Although the old model wasn`t up to much, the new BMW x3 sounds like it could be a corker though.

The Fifth Gear team liked it.

http://fwd.channel5....eam-test-bmw-x3

I tried the new BMW X3 before I decided to go over to the dark side.

Very nice, waaaay better than the old X3, almost like an X5.

And What Car? gave it the besy SUV award in the latest edition.

But very pricey - you need to do your homework on the optional extras.

The one I saw was £35k, but no satnav or ICE. And the stoopid bu**ers fitted a £2500 optional extra 19" alloys with low profile tyres on it. They looked great, but totally impractical in winter - or any other time if you want to avoid orthopaedic surgery. Air suspension wins anytime :P

[jedi134]

Jedi

I will buy a tin of each beans next time and do you a report.

However, my engine doesn't run on beans. If I had the two tins of beans anylised, I reckon that we could determin how much of the weight was beans, how much was water/sauce and then things like salt, sugar etc.

That is what I would really like from one of the useless comparison sites - a proper detailed analysis with tests on the fuel, not running cars around.

But in the Tesco and Heinz beans it tells you what's in it, as you stated.......where does it tell me what's in my super fuel?

There is a huge oil scandle cover up going on in my opinion........

And to all those who think huge global companys don't lie..........I have an absoloute cracker.......a huge global company , blatenly miss advertising a product.......... So much so they are covering their bottoms at no expense.

The bigger they are the more corrupt they are.

But untill I get my item sorted and depending what I get in compensation, depends how much I will blab!!

[CharlieFarlie]

Jedi

I will buy a tin of each beans next time and do you a report.

However, my engine doesn't run on beans. If I had the two tins of beans anylised, I reckon that we could determin how much of the weight was beans, how much was water/sauce and then things like salt, sugar etc.

That is what I would really like from one of the useless comparison sites - a proper detailed analysis with tests on the fuel, not running cars around.

But in the Tesco and Heinz beans it tells you what's in it, as you stated.......where does it tell me what's in my super fuel?

There is a huge oil scandle cover up going on in my opinion........

And to all those who think huge global companys don't lie..........I have an absoloute cracker.......a huge global company , blatenly miss advertising a product.......... So much so they are covering their bottoms at no expense.

The bigger they are the more corrupt they are.

But untill I get my item sorted and depending what I get in compensation, depends how much I will blab!!

Is it cold on planet Jedi ??

[dervdave]

Jedi I will buy a tin of each beans next time and do you a report. However, my engine doesn't run on beans. If I had the two tins of beans anylised, I reckon that we could determin how much of the weight was beans, how much was water/sauce and then things like salt, sugar etc. That is what I would really like from one of the useless comparison sites - a proper detailed analysis with tests on the fuel, not running cars around.

But in the Tesco and Heinz beans it tells you what's in it, as you stated.......where does it tell me what's in my super fuel? There is a huge oil scandle cover up going on in my opinion........ And to all those who think huge global companys don't lie..........I have an absoloute cracker.......a huge global company , blatenly miss advertising a product.......... So much so they are covering their bottoms at no expense. The bigger they are the more corrupt they are. But untill I get my item sorted and depending what I get in compensation, depends how much I will blab!!

Is it cold on planet Jedi ??

[CharlieFarlie]

Jedi

I will buy a tin of each beans next time and do you a report.

However, my engine doesn't run on beans. If I had the two tins of beans anylised, I reckon that we could determin how much of the weight was beans, how much was water/sauce and then things like salt, sugar etc.

That is what I would really like from one of the useless comparison sites - a proper detailed analysis with tests on the fuel, not running cars around.

But in the Tesco and Heinz beans it tells you what's in it, as you stated.......where does it tell me what's in my super fuel?

There is a huge oil scandle cover up going on in my opinion........

And to all those who think huge global companys don't lie..........I have an absoloute cracker.......a huge global company , blatenly miss advertising a product.......... So much so they are covering their bottoms at no expense.

The bigger they are the more corrupt they are.

But untill I get my item sorted and depending what I get in compensation, depends how much I will blab!!

Here Ya go Mate .......

V-Power Diesel is Shell's version of an enhanced diesel fuel, similar, say to BPs 'Ultimate Diesel'. Like BP Ultimate Diesel, Shell V-Power Diesel is designed for modern compression-ignition diesel engines, to facilitate enhanced engine performance along with increased engine protection, for more consistent operation and engine longevity.^[5]

V-Power Diesel is a blend of regular petroleum-based diesel and synthetic diesel, created using gas to liquids (GTL), along with some extra additives designed to clean the injection system and improve injection pump and injector lubricity.

One characteristic of V-Power diesel is that it is a lot clearer and odourless than normal diesel, mainly due to the synthetic GTL component.

The fuel is slightly less dense than regular diesel so, per volume, the unit energy is actually lower than regular diesel. This is offset, as the fuel tends to ignite more readily (and thus has a higher cetane rating) than regular diesel, and a side benefit of this is that it tends to produce less soot during combustion.

Anecdotal evidence shows that its performance varies depending on how an engine is set up. In most cases, it will make a rough-sounding engine run noticeably smoother, and can also alter the performance characteristics; typically some low-end torque is lost, but performance in the middle of the rev range and above is increased. In some engines however, particularly well-tuned common rail turbodiesels, very little effect can be seen or felt.^{[citation needed]}

Although the former is true for the European market, Shell also markets a different "premium" diesel in Canada, which they state "Is specially formulated for year-round Canadian weather conditions, with a cetane improver, a de-icer and a corrosion inhibitor."^[6] but Shell also states that V-Power diesel will typically have an increased cetane rating of 1 to 2 points over standard diesel, which meetsTransport Canada's minimum mandated rating of 40.^[7] It also contains no GTL components at all.

[jedi134]

Tesco and Heinz state

Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc

Bp and Shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel?

Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

[CharlieFarlie]

Tesco and Heinz state

Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc

Bp and shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel?

Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

Done for Ya ?? Would You like the ingredients of a pair of Specsavers finest ????

For Tesco Diesel take all the ingredients out of the V Power stuff and replace with water ..................

[dervdave]

Tesco and Heinz state Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc Bp and shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel? Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

Done for Ya ?? Would You like the ingredients of a pair of Specsavers finest ???? For Tesco Diesel take all the ingredients out of the V Power stuff and replace with water ..................

And algae :lol:

[jedi134]

You know I love you charlie (not in a !Removed! way) but what are the actual ingredients? 2 stroke oil? Petrol? Alchol? Jiff? Shell dust?

No where does it mention what the actual ingtedients/adatives are?

Show me what they are and ill eat my own jedi poo

[CharlieFarlie]

Tesco and Heinz state Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc Bp and shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel? Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

Done for Ya ?? Would You like the ingredients of a pair of Specsavers finest ???? For Tesco Diesel take all the ingredients out of the V Power stuff and replace with water ..................

And algae :lol:

Why Biggles mate ???

[CharlieFarlie]

Tesco and Heinz state Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc Bp and shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel? Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

Done for Ya ?? Would You like the ingredients of a pair of Specsavers finest ???? For Tesco Diesel take all the ingredients out of the V Power stuff and replace with water ..................

And algae :lol:

Why Biggles mate ???

You know I love you charlie (not in a !Removed! way) but what are the actual ingredients? 2 stroke oil? Petrol? Alchol? Jiff? Shell dust?

No where does it mention what the actual ingtedients/adatives are?

Show me what they are and ill eat my own jedi poo

If I knew the answers to that one I would be a Petrochemist ? Wooden Eye ???

[dervdave]

Tesco and Heinz state Salt, sugar. Water, starch,onion powder, etc Bp and shell state what exactly? That is in their super fuel? Please tell me as I don't have the foggyest?

Done for Ya ?? Would You like the ingredients of a pair of Specsavers finest ???? For Tesco Diesel take all the ingredients out of the V Power stuff and replace with water ..................

And algae :lol:

Why Biggles mate ???

Biggles ? ?? ......Bigguns please :D

Algae thread

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=133065&st=0&p=1182658&hl=algae&fromsearch=1&#entry1182658

[jedi134]

Bang on dervdave........I asked the guy who works in petrol or what ever it is (read the thread) again thanks dervdave!

I asked what do they actually put in super fuels?

And suprise! Suprise! He went mute!............................????