Sign in to follow this  
frankie406

What Causes High Oil Use On 1.8Vvti

Recommended Posts

hi im sure this is in the forum somewhere but want to know is the high Oil consumption on the 1.8vvti because of blockages in the ports in the engine or the pistons?? if it is the ports being blocked can it be cleaned using a strong engine flush to clean them out and then use a heavy Oil like 15w/40 semi and use the likes of lucas Oil stabilizer..i know toyota want us to fit new short engines at a high price from our own pockets because of their known design fault. im thinking will this possible easy fix even slow the consumption down to toyota's usage spec??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hello any1 even a thought on this??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have this engine thank god, but is it the design of the block, piston and rings.

From what has been said on this forum, the short engine is replaced.

Search the forum for the answer you are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the main reason is overheating of each piston but all other results coming from this.

should the piston be cooled by an Oil jet - this issue would not be available.

regards / Igor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Frankie

The Oil consumption issues affecting 1zz 1.8, 3zz 1.6 & 4zz 1.4 engines is caused by a combination of several issues, leading Toyota to make several changes to the engines up to around mid 2005 where they managed to cure the issues,

1. Insufficient Oil capacity, pre 2005 engines only came with 3.7 litres of Oil, this caused the Oil to remain very hot all the time reducing the cooling affect the Oil has on the back of the pistons. The continued high Oil temps causes the Oil to degrade and sludge excessively between service Oil changes.

Toyota increased the Oil capacity from 3.7 to 4.7 litres reducing the Oil temps in the engine. ( EDIT On post 2005 cars Toyota increased Oil capacity to 4.2 litres, On pre 2005 cars which had the official modifications carried out due to excessive Oil consumption the Oil capacity was raised to 4.7litres except for MR2's which stayed at 3.7litres due to the compact / shallow sump fitted to them )

2. Poor piston design, the rear of the piston only had 4 Oil ways allowing the hot Oil coming from the piston ring Oil scrapers to pass away from the piston rings. This meant that the Oil stayed at the hottest part of the piston crown for too long exacerbating issue # 1 which in turn allowed the Oil ways to sludge up. Once sludging started the Oil would eventually start to burn and harden around the rings this started to wear away at the bores eventually misshaping them. Due to the Nikosil coating applied to the bores they should not be rebored or honed meaning Toyota replaced any block showing even the slightest of damage.

Toyota redesigned the pistons to include 8 Oil ways which allowed the Oil to pass away quicker.

3. The use of poor quality or overly thick oils (thicker than 5w30) increased the likely hood of the issues above occurring. Toyota noted that even dealers where using oils such as 10w40 and quickly pointed out that although the owners manual listed 10w40 it was for warmer climates and that 5w30 was the preferred grade and insisted that dealers use 5w30 when servicing and repairing #zz engines.

4. Poor piston ring design, In an attempt to reduce friction, increase efficiency and lower emissions the engine designers profiled the piston rings to a sharp point reducing the contact point on the bore, this on its own only increased Oil consumption slightly but when combined with issues 1,2 & 3 caused the piston rings not scrape the overly thick oils effectively.

New piston rings where designed with a larger contact area and higher ring tension.

Initially Toyota fitted new blocks along with modified pistons, rings, thermostat ( to lower engine running temp ) and a modified dipstick ( to show the new 4.7litre levels) they also recovered the old blocks eventually leading to them switching the approved repair method to remanufactured short blocks fully assembled with the modified parts.

Cheers

Devon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi thanx for the repies lads...thinking now would it be cheaper or easier to get a used engine put in.can get me hands on a 2008 1.8vvti engine will this be a easy change 1 in 1 out job? or will i need the ecu from the donar car??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi thanx for the repies lads...thinking now would it be cheaper or easier to get a used engine put in.can get me hands on a 2008 1.8vvti engine will this be a easy change 1 in 1 out job? or will i need the ecu from the donar car??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the pre-modified engine, I marked the dipstick 5mm higher, so far I do not use Oil.

Just a thought, would leaving the engine undercovers off help cool the Oil in the sump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't have thought that would work to be fair; when I was little & my dad had a Proton, you could see the sump clearly under the front of it (the bumper didn't come down too low or had no skirt). I once said to him that it would be good for Oil cooling but he claimed it wouldn't make any difference.

Suprised Toyota didn't fit an Oil cooler as such for a possible short-term fix . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

both Oil cooler and cooling jets -- that is cure

the engine is in fact economical basing on my previous drive of avensis

regards / Igor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At 40 000 miles - just inside warranty my dealer reported when I collected it after servicing, that I needed to check Oil more often as it was low . I responded that I had been toppinbg it up regularly. Toyota warranty covered a new engine block etc. as this was "one of the faulty ones". Now done 125 000 miles and Oil consumption just beginning to increase a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do find it annoying that they do recalls for stupid piddly things like a slightly iffy door switch but not a major manufacturing fault like this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had this and went to Toyota. They extended the warranties on the engines to seven years because of this problem. Check to see if you're still in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought that was just on the diesels that the 7 year thing applied

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Frankie

The oil consumption issues affecting 1zz 1.8, 3zz 1.6 & 4zz 1.4 engines is caused by a combination of several issues, leading Toyota to make several changes to the engines up to around mid 2005 where they managed to cure the issues,

1. Insufficient oil capacity, pre 2005 engines only came with 3.7 litres of oil, this caused the oil to remain very hot all the time reducing the cooling affect the oil has on the back of the pistons. The continued high oil temps causes the oil to degrade and sludge excessively between service oil changes.

Toyota increased the oil capacity from 3.7 to 4.7 litres reducing the oil temps in the engine. ( EDIT On post 2005 cars Toyota increased oil capacity to 4.2 litres, On pre 2005 cars which had the official modifications carried out due to excessive oil consumption the oil capacity was raised to 4.7litres except for MR2's which stayed at 3.7litres due to the compact / shallow sump fitted to them )

2. Poor piston design, the rear of the piston only had 4 oil ways allowing the hot oil coming from the piston ring oil scrapers to pass away from the piston rings. This meant that the oil stayed at the hottest part of the piston crown for too long exacerbating issue # 1 which in turn allowed the oil ways to sludge up. Once sludging started the oil would eventually start to burn and harden around the rings this started to wear away at the bores eventually misshaping them. Due to the Nikosil coating applied to the bores they should not be rebored or honed meaning Toyota replaced any block showing even the slightest of damage.

Toyota redesigned the pistons to include 8 oil ways which allowed the oil to pass away quicker.

3. The use of poor quality or overly thick oils (thicker than 5w30) increased the likely hood of the issues above occurring. Toyota noted that even dealers where using oils such as 10w40 and quickly pointed out that although the owners manual listed 10w40 it was for warmer climates and that 5w30 was the preferred grade and insisted that dealers use 5w30 when servicing and repairing #zz engines.

4. Poor piston ring design, In an attempt to reduce friction, increase efficiency and lower emissions the engine designers profiled the piston rings to a sharp point reducing the contact point on the bore, this on its own only increased oil consumption slightly but when combined with issues 1,2 & 3 caused the piston rings not scrape the overly thick oils effectively.

New piston rings where designed with a larger contact area and higher ring tension.

Initially Toyota fitted new blocks along with modified pistons, rings, thermostat ( to lower engine running temp ) and a modified dipstick ( to show the new 4.7litre levels) they also recovered the old blocks eventually leading to them switching the approved repair method to remanufactured short blocks fully assembled with the modified parts.

Cheers

Devon

Now thats a proper write up about the problem from a man who is in the know. :drunk:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! My Corolla was register on 10/2005. Is a 1.6 vvti. The engine as an "up-grade" or not?

PM your chassis number to me and I will check

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my 52 plate in October and was delighted when I first went to see it.

My very first experience of Toyota was when I böught a W reg '00 1.8 GS Avensis in January.I found the 7A-FE engine to be bulletproof if a little uninspiring (am used to 1.8 & 2.0 Family II,Redtops and 2.0 Ecotec Vauxhall engines which are great,,Kents and Cosworths also great - Pintos,Colognes,CvHs and Zetecs which arent that inspiring either and 1.6,2.0 and 2.0 turbo 16V Nissan motors which are not bad and Suburu boxer motors,say no more.lol) so when I open the bonnet as I examined the 52 plate to see if it was a good car I was surprised to find a black plastic cover instead of a 7A which I expected,course I hadnt noticed the VVTi badges cos I went straight under the bonnet.lol.

When I googled it and read the first couple of entries for the 1ZZ-FE it sounded great,the car drove well too plus was in mint condition so when I got the guy to £1050 I bit off his hand,haha.

It was only later I when I did further research I read about these Oil issues but it was too late.lol.Now mine has just hit 80,000 miles (not bad for a 10 year old car n part of why I bought it.lol) but it's using a little too much Oil for my liking with no seapage or leaks to be seen.

As you can imagine I want to deal with this now before it gets worse so has anyone with 1st hand experience of this engine got some hot tips.

Fitting an Oil cooler seems wise,my 7A had one so would one from the engine fit mine ???

More frequent Oil changes clearly but what Oil would you recommend ??

I used Magnatec on the Redtop I modified to a high degree in my 4 door Cavy but found the cam wear increased frighteningly using it so price aint a guarantee of quality.So i'd prefer users recommendations - is semi or fully synthetic best,what grade plus do engine flushes each Oil n filter change help ???

A bigger capacity sump would make sense so would a 7A sump fit or one from a later 1ZZ or 3ZZ be better ???

So just how fickle are these engines ??

I roasted my 7A to the point where it knocked to f@#k and wouldnt run.The casting for the coolant outlet (front of head above the exhaust manifold on the right) blew a gasket and boiled dry.It took 4 hours to cool down and by then it was 9pm so I made a new gasket from a scrap of old kitchen lino,refilled it wi coolant n it ran a dream.Spoke to the boy who bought it last week n 5000 miles on it stills runs a dream.

Thats what I call a trusty motor,can I expect similar from a 1ZZ,I fear not !!!

Also my car's solid and in great shape,am gonna hang on to it for a few years n already the tuning bug is calling.lol.

If it was a Vauxhall lump it would generally fine to propery modify at 80,000 miles,it'd be ideal the blocked nicely destressed,the internals bedded in without being worn out (if it had been properly looked after,obviously !!)

So with that in mind,do you think a 1ZZ with 80,000 could take fast road/mild rally tuning or would it just wear out with a few thousand miles,bearing mind I modify my engines as I like my engines to deliver power in a certain way to suit my driving so it'll get used !!

I plan to get a later 1.8 or 2.0 ZZ-FE to bulid up over a period of time so any tips on particular areas for attention to produce a bulletproof n/a bottom end are appreciated.

Sorry for the many questions any advice would be gratefully recieved.I have 20 + years exp tuning engines.i.e an exp ametuer but all toyota specific info from those that know is great,,if you have any ford or vauxhall queries i'm your man,haha.

cheers,

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 1.8vvti recently ran dry of Oil, no Oil light ,smoking or puddles. it is regularly serviced and I checked the Oil and topped up a bit in august. It cost me £2500 for recon engine. Wasnt aware of any problem with this engine or i would of check the Oil level more regularly. 54 plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have posted elsewhere about this so my apologies for any repetition. I wish to buy a Celica - not a GT or sport, just ordinary - and since the revised engines were apparently introduced in July 2005, need to know exactly which models are safe from the Oil consumption problem. I've already passed over one from September 2005 for which the VIN appears about 400 too early and I'm looking at one registered on Jan 1 2006. But that too might still have an original engine! (I'm not so bothered about performance, it HAS to be reliable though, for journeys abroad.) Your advice please. Thanks in anticipation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a 2003 1.8 that had done about 50k when it started to use Oil, eventually about 0.5L to 500 miles. I came on the forum to learn abot this problem and came across the claim that use of the best petrols was better as they had a higher level of detergent that helped keep the ring grooves/piston holes clear and stopped excessive Oil consumption. I did not really think that would work but resolved to give it a try. Over a period of 4 months the Oil consumption dropped from 1000 miles per litre down to 3000 miles per litre when running on supreme grade fuel. It stayed at that level then for 6 months when I continued using the premium fuel. I then started using ordinary grade fuel and the Oil consumption started to rise and after 4 months it was back at 1000 miles per litre. I started using the premium petrol again and the Oil consumption steadily dropped back to 3000 miles / litre. It continued then for another year on the premium petrol when I sold the car at 70K miles.

Before this experience I was totally sceptical about the detergent qualities of super grade petrol comared to nomal grade and how it would help keep an engine piston rings clear and reduce Oil burning but my experience confirmed (to me) what others on this site had claimed.

I also filled the Oil level to 12mm above the normal mark and never had any sign of it being over full eg burning Oil going up or down extremely steep hills, hard cornering and heavy braking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.

12mm sounds both randomly chosen and accurate! Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding was that the higher sump capacity of 0.5 L was achieved merely by a higher mark on the dipstick of about 10mm. I tried 10mm at first without any ill effects and then settled a bit higher at 12mm and remarked the dipstick at what i think was 0.6L extra. I wished I had done the switch to premium grade fuel at a seperate time from increasing the sump capacity so I would have understood better what was going on but I just wanted a fix ASAP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Engine Oil still half way between min and max after 300 miles, not dropped

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this