Rav4.3 Engine Ticking Noise

[ASeyc]

Hi,

I am new here and also a new toyota owner. I am natively a ford guy however I wanted to try out toyota and so I bought a 2007 Rav4 for my wife after having twins as we obviously needed a lot of space.

My toyota is an XT4 and it has a 2.2 D4D engine which currently has 100108miles on the clock. I just bought it a month ago and the local dealer gave me 6 months warranty on it. It also still has 2 years warranty from toyota covering the known overheating or excessive oil burn issue.

When I got it, I immediately replaced the oil and used Sunoco Mistral LL3 which is a 5w30 fully synthetic oil suitable for DPF equipped cars. Dont really know if mine has a DPF, anyway...

Lately I heard ticking noises from the top part of the engine which increases more as the engine heats up and reaches normal temp. We immediately thought it was aninjector issue so we took all the 4 of them off to a local injector repair workshop however after an hour on his test bed, they proved not to have any issues. The dealer is now thinking it is a cam follower or a hydraulic tappet issue and is now gong to open the engine to check what is wrong.

Do any of you guys have any ideas as to what it could be? These engine are known to be silent so it is definately something wrong. Cant say if this began after the oil chage as I didnt use it a lot with the old oil however I do not remember hearing the noise when I test drove it.

Any help before e engine gets ripped apart?

Thanks

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

Obviously without hearing it, making an informed statement about what is wrong is very difficult. What I can say is that if you pull the top off they are far from silent and the injectors are very vocal. You can keep injector noise down with high grade diesel (avoid supermarket diesel like the plague). I urge you to go and listen to another vehicle before allowing somebody to strip yours. We have had it time and again where these engines are opened up and more harm than good is done.

Are you saying this noise has got worse since you bought it or you have just become aware of it?

Where are you?

[igormus]

hi matey

please arrange for a video

regards / Igor

[ASeyc]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies. I live in Malta so it is not possible for me to show e vehicle to one of you.

As i said, I do not think that the noise was there when I bought it however now that I know about it, I am hearing it more.

I will however take igormus suggestion and take a video. One when cold and when with normal temp and hopefully the ticking noise will come out. The appt. with the mechanic is this Wednesday so hopefully you will see the video before that.

Re. Hearing another rav, i have a friendof mine who has one however I do not think it makes tha ticking noise. I will check again and also let you know.

Will try and post the vide later on today.

Thanks guys.

[ASeyc]

Hi again,

This is the link to a Skydrive folder containing three videos:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=985485538711F385!719

The one beginning with the dash view clearly shows the engine temperature still cold. The ticking noise isnt there. I then removed the cover and went for a drive and you can see the other two videos. You can hear the ticking especially when revving the engine and releasing the throttle.

Any comments?

[anchorman]

Bravo on the video.

OK it sounds a bit clattery but my old 2006 model did from new.

Can you get either some decent high grade diesel or maybe even try a tin of BG244. I think it is just diesel knock but these might help reduce (not necessarily cure it).

I presume they are not going to charge you for this proposed work. If so I would push for the engine Job.

[ASeyc]

The works are going to be done under the dealer's warranty not the toyota warranty.

So you think this oise is normal? It really increases by time. Yesterday evening I tried again unplugging injectora one by one and again I can hear the ticking noise coming when I plug back injector no.2. I am suspecting that its not true that the mechanic took the injctors to the injector repair shop.

What do you mean by engine job?

[igormus]

hello again

i am inclined one of the injectors needs calibrating.

as for my experience -- if MrT mechanic takes injector/s off -- he must to show your their performance before and after been calibrated.

if negative then you have a doubts. by the way -- I'd open valves cover just to see if all parts are well tight .

regards / Igor

[anchorman]

The works are going to be done under the dealer's warranty not the toyota warranty.

So you think this oise is normal? It really increases by time. Yesterday evening I tried again unplugging injectora one by one and again I can hear the ticking noise coming when I plug back injector no.2. I am suspecting that its not true that the mechanic took the injctors to the injector repair shop.

What do you mean by engine job?

There was a TSB issued on injectors noisy but you can't just take them to any old workshop. They have to be calibrated electronically on and off the car. They have now gone to "Type 2" injectors which are set up differently.

Don't think you can just pop out and buy 4 of the later type. It has to be done by the dealer and you are looking at £2k over here. The "engine job" refers to the engine being changed under a Toyota extended warranty. In this case you can get a new engine under a 7 year or 112,000 mile warranty. If the injectors were out of range they would also be changed under the scope of the warranty.

This refers to the injectors;

4.3 noisey at start.pdf

BTW your vehicle code is ALA30

[ASeyc]

Hi,

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. I will try to convince the dealer to get a second opinion and take it to the local Toyota dealer. I really do not think it is a cam follwer issue especially as I said when removing no.2, the ticking goes away.

The TSB is really interesting and I will try to follow it up this evening.

Will let you know.

Do you think that I will void the toyota warranty if I get a 3rd party mechanic to perform repairs on it?

Thanks again,

[anchorman]

I would write to Toyota in your country. As long as there is a reasonable service history you can get the engine changed here - providing it meets the criteria of using oil.

I would fight shy of getting a 3rd party to tear it apart until you know whether the extended warranty would apply with you (I think we had another one in Malta that did - can anyone remember?).

The engine is very very complicated and needs a real decent mechanic on it or you might as well kiss it goodbye. If I am brutally hones, after trying Toyota and getting nowhere I would run it for a few thousand miles to see if it gets worse. Can you get good quality diesel there?

[ASeyc]

I am sure that the extended warranty that I have covers excessive oil consumption and overheating issues so it is a bit difficult to claim a whole engine from Toyota. Obviously I am not sure if it burns excessive oil as I had it just for a month.

I went through the TSB that you gave me and concluded that my injectors are the second version with two grey identification marks so according to the tsb I should change only the defective one and regsiter it in the ECU.

Will try to give a call to the dealer to see if I manage to convince him to take it to a toyota garage.

What I am sure of is that my engine has a stronger ticking noise than another rav4 as today I went for a ride with my friend's rav and it is alot more silent.

Did the other guy from Malta have the same issue?

[anchorman]

Send this guy a pm and see if you can find out what happened;

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134187&view=findpost&p=1196929

[ASeyc]

UPDATE

The mechanic opened the top cover and removed the front camshaft to check the condition of the hydraulic tappets. He didnt see anything wrong somhe removed all the four injectors. He said that the injector on which I was suspecting in which is injector no2 had a broken seal and also a damaged tip.

We tried to ask if the local Toyota dealer had injectors in stock but obviously they dont have so he decided to take all the four injectors to a diesel injector workshop here in malta. Injector no. 2 was found not to function properly but the other three were OK. Dont know what kind of fault the second injector had but he left it at the workshop for 1 day to get it serviced. Mwhen I asked what knd of service they do, he old me he will replace the tip and probably give it an ultrasonic bath.

Just call the mechanic now and he said the injector is ready and should be installed by tomorrow.

Has any of you ever got experiences in 'servicing' injectors??

Thanks

[igormus]

hi

injector unit consists of : body; control solenoid; nozzle tip as needle valve ; push rod ; loading spring. all of them , when correct assembled/adjusted give perfect fog jet at 1500 bar.

the needle valve injects diesel at firm pressure of 1000-1500 bars creating by HP fuel injection pump and it occures 6-12 degrees before TBC. When engine starts to give knocking noise -- the most like reason is over fueling in th cylinder -- what does it mean --- diesel is being injected more than calculated per cycle. Why does it happen --- the needle contacts nozzle in thin circle as spot liine -- and this line becomes wider in definite time (statistically determined by MrT). Once over fueling effect has become -- it means this circle line has become wider. The wider contact the less contact pressure --- and this leading to have injection (poor injection) at small pressure, let say 700-900 bars giving more fuel per cycle and this big fuel quantity can not be burnt quckly befor the piston goes downwards and this gives you hummer noise. The idea of injector servicing is usually to change nozzle tip (needle valve) to adjust pressure by washers and program unit as whole on the fuel stand. Once calibrated well -- the unit injects diesel portion as designed (+/- admissble)

regards Igor

[ASeyc]

Hi igormus,

Your explanation is impressive. Really appreciated. I will let you know how did this go as I should have the car back tomorrow or monday.

Thanks again for your help,

This forum is a great source of knowledge.

[ASeyc]

UPDATE 2

Ticking noise still there exactly as before servicing injector no. 2. We are now going to get a new one from Toyota. Fingers crossed. It will take two weeks to arrive.

[ASeyc]

UPDATE 3

Finally the new injector arrived. We replaced it, re coded the ECU and now it sounds a lot smoother. That ugly ticking sound as if the engine was left without oil disappeared. The thing is that now I can hear the ticking of the other 3 however it is not as loud and thus will leave them as is.

Strange thing is that the injectors that I am supposed to have are the 'silent' ones as they have the two inspection marks.

Anyway, if someone encounters this ticking, consider replacing faulty injectors.

Thanks,

[igormus]

great

[Big Kev]

great

"Cracking" (superb) input, Big Chap.

[RCT Bart 1979]

Good job on the video , mine's a 2006 2.2 and indeed sounds much smoother than yours did. cheers !