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CelicauseIcan

Hi My Name Is Michelle Im 28 Single Athletic And A Mechanic

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Problem with Pumps Not the shoes !!! My 86 celica has problem. When I turn key I no longer hear fuel pump prestart activity. EFI relay and main relay click when key is turned on. Moved MAF door and when opened by hand fuel pump operates. Checked Open Circuit relay and if I close the contact inside the relay with key on pump will operate. Also jumped service connector Fp to Bat and pump operates. Put everything back to normal operating condition and turn key to on and no fuel pump. Turn to start and engine just cranks will not fire but has spark at plugs. Help please and I'll cook you dinner.

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Hiya.

Is the "activation" side of the Open Circuit relay getting anything?

It sounds like you've looked into this, so I assume you've checked all these with a multimeter?

If so have you tested/swapped out the actual relay?

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when i crank the engine the open circuit relay closes and fuel pump operates and i get fuel pressure to the fuel rail. But if I just turn the key to the on position, I no longer hear the familiar 3 seconds of fuel pump operation that pressurizes the fuel rail. I found a shop manual for the 3se online but I am limited to using my phone to view it due to the fact that I am remote and stuck away from my home computer. I am getting spark and fuel pressure to the fuel rail when cranking the engine. but it will not fire. could the problem be in the injector circuit? I wish I knew the flow chart of the power through the efi circuit from key switch to engine running. I hope someone has the answer before I spend all my money on this hotel room and dont have enough to cook somebody dinner. Just kidding, I can always come up with something out of nothing. Its magic...Just like the time I turned a nice prime rib into a ball of flame.

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If you are trapped and trying to get home, why not jury rig the thing so it just runs constantly? It'll be prefectly drivable! It's not like the Celicas had a silly none return fuel system so fuel presure will be fine.

I'm not sure about the older Celicas (ST-162 right?) but the Supras of that vintage ran two speed fuel pumps. Clearly the pump works, maybe the speed control (A resister pack of some sort, I assume, this is all from memory lol)

(Edit ok, I just re read, its not driving...) When cranking are the injectors powering up?

Really really stupid, you've cheched the EFI fuses right? Is the ECU getting power?

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I jumpered the diagnostic connector and no code observed. The injectors are way down below the plenum and I cannot hear them clicking over the cranking of the starter. I checked all the fuses and all are good. At initial key on the check engine light does come on and then goes out. I have fuel. Pressure and spark will pull spark plugs after a hot shower. Not giving up.

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97 views to my problem and only Karma Supra has taken the time to assist me? Thank you so far for your time and effort Karma Supra.. When we get this thing running again my GPS will need some info from you

The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Humh. I never...

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97 views to my problem and only Karma Supra has taken the time to assist me? <snip>

The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Humh. I never...

Ok, I'll bite since I have nothing better to do at the moment.

Maybe the other 96 didn't have anything useful to add and didn't want to clog your thread up with off topic nonsense...

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Topic is being watched by Moderating Team........Because it seems almost "unreal"

Good luck in getting a repair.........Maybe you will take Karma and his Fiancé for that meal! ;)

Maybe most of the members are not interested in your culinary skills!

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Unreal? You mean it's actually a bloke called Gary from Slough with a massive beer gut that wanted a quick response? :D

Have you ever tried the age old trick of resting a screwdriver on something you want to listen to, and putting one end to your ear... might help, certainly does on a running engine... What would be better would be if you could get one of the plugs off and check for voltage...

Also re fuses... ECUs tend to have an "A" and a "B" fuse, or labelled ECU, Engine and injector so just because the light comes on and clears doesn't mean all is well... I've also had old fuses fail but not look blown... Failing that all you can do is check earths, check continuity check that things have power.. Do you have a multimeter, (or a bulb on some wire if you are having to improvise)

I had a really similar problem on an '89 supra, I'd just stuck the engine in (swapped an N/A auto for turbo manual) and the thing would not start... I bodged it by manually putting a positive flying lead on the circuit opening relay, and it fired.

Once I did it a couple of times it "just worked" (until it threw a rod through the block at a later date on the M40 :D )

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Yeah, I ain't got anything to contribute; Your first post was just WOOOSH! over my head. I imagine it's how other people feel when I talk about computer stuff! :lol:

I drive a diesel Yaris and the most complex thing I've ever done is clean the MAF sensor and EGR! :unsure:

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Help please and I'll cook you dinner.

Is this a gay dating thing... :blushing:

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My name isn't Gary I don't drink and dinner would be for whomever. Shows up. I have a test light and a dvm. I just don't have knowledge. Turn key to on and cel comes on and stays on. I have spark and fuel pressure. Can't hear injectors because it isn't running.

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OK....... Just to get my head around this... which is kind of hard remotely..

  • EML light is now on, but wasn't on before, - has anything else changed, been unplugged etc?
  • EML light is on constantly, but there are no codes to be read (T or Ts and E1 bridged) - Have you tried "clearing the codes" (um... disconnect the Battery for a bit).
  • You now have fuel presure but didn't before.

Did you get any voltage off the injector plugs?

Did anything out of the ordinary happen when it broke? i.e. drive through a massive puddle, or did starting get worse over time etc?

I hope its not the ECU :blink:

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Wow, that's incredible! Where do you people find these docs??? :D

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What can I say, a history of 80s and early 90s Toyotas (Including a Celica this shape- my first Toyota ever), and a history of taking them apart and swapping bits over... like engines... you get good at seeking stuff out...

What a can't find is a full UK '99 LS400 1UZ-FE VVTi diagram for my next project... the ECU with a built in transponder imobiliser is going to be a pig.... I need a JDM KZN-185 '96 diagram too... can't find that either... So if anyone can help find either of those, I'll promise not to cook for them (Trust me, it's better that way round...)

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Ok the problem started last week I started it up and pull it into my garage to change the Oil. I shut it off to move my daughters bike. Got back in it and turned the key and only for lights. Tried a couple more times and finally started. Skipped changing Oil and hit the road. Got to my destination. Try to start only lights and NO fuel pump. Today I took the start switch from the column and turned it with a screw driver. The switch turned so far that it went passed the start position to a dead spot. Could my problem be a bad start switch?

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Jumpered service connector and observed code 11. I think I have an ignition switch problem. Have to find known good or new replacement tomorrow. Hope that's the problem.

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If it is cranking over as you said, I'd not have thought it was the start position on the switch, But I guess it could be something wierd like one you are hitting start, another connection that was previously on gets interupted. Check that the IG1 and IG2 wires have power on cranking, if you can hear the starter, no need to check that one :P

-looking at the diagram I'd guess IG1 works if you are getting the engine light, so check IG2, - best way to be sure: check for a live feed on ECU pins +B and +b1 (Looking at the ECU diagram, the extreme right most pins, either one above the other or both next to each other (bottom row) depending on your engine.

I'd either: use the voltmeter to check continuity..... - or (more likely to be what I'd try as its easier) hotwire it! Check earths to the starter switch/steering column too. - you can run this check without needing to change out the parts... My gut feeling is that its not the switch... but I've been wrong before, and those checks above will either prove me wrong or emilinate that as an issue!

Did you look at the the file I linked to.. Now I've had a chance, its actually pretty handy (although US, which can sometimes mean odd differences)

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Yes I have taken a look thank you so much I'm starting to understand more and more. A contacted my Mum and she thinks my Dad had an issue with the switch early on and replaced it at about 60k it only has 86k on it but I counted that I start my car on average 30-40 times a day.

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30-40 times a day!!!! What kind of a mental starting ritual is that?

I'd totally have hotwired it.. -sorry that sounds bad- "Bypassed the potentially faulty switch gear" and gone home by now. :D

- like I said, if it didn't start it would have at least proved that it's not the issue... without another day wait for parts ;)

You'd never survive the zombie apocolypse if you always rely on new parts!

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When I turn the key to the on position what relay energizes and causes the fuel pump to run for 3 seconds?

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Because that. Isn't. Happening. Update I have spark so I sprayed starting fluid directly into the intake and it doesn't even try to start. Any ideas?

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Circuit opening relay, unless you have the turbo, where the circuit opening relay give the fuel pump relay a poke.

But I'm not a mechanic ;)

What engine variant do you have? GE, FE or GTE? it might give us a clue :D (usually says it on the cam belt cover......) I've been assuming its a GE.

Starting fluid won't help if there is no working injection system...

You never actually confirmed that you:

  • Tried starting it with the fuel pump being forced to run.
  • Checked ALL the EFI/injector and ECU fuses.
  • Checked for voltage at the key points (mainly the ECU ones I suggested and the injectors).
  • Tried bypassing the starter switch to test it.

If I was you I'd try and find a way of printing off all the relevent pages of that document and work through the flow charts and wiring. (You only need about half of it....)

Then again if I was trapped away from home I'd have bought AA membership by now, unless I didn't want to go home (or to work)

I've made all the suggestions I can from afar I'm afraid, and without knowing the outcomes can't really shed much more light on the matter... (not that knowing the outcomes would guarantee light shedding.......)

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