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Nicolai

Test Drove 2013 Auris Hsd: Hard To Get Good Mpg

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My third test drive with HSD:

Car felt solidly built although some of the materials used (dashboard, LCD clock etc.) are a bit nasty.

Like expected, the HSD turned out to be great when driving slow in the city due to EV mode.

I drove in Eco mode almost constantly, however, it was hard to accelerate without having the 1.8 kicking in. Moreover, from the fuel graphics on the screen, it seems that the 1.8 uses quite a bit of fuel when accelerating. I WAS able to accelerate on batteries alone but the acceleration was very slow. In fact, it was so slow that people driving behind me honked their horns so as to say: get on with it. Pushing the accelerator anything more than feather lightly resulted in the 1.8 kicking in.

I drove economically in city/town area , averaging a speed of only 20 mph but you can't drive like that normally. How do I make the car drive economically at a normal speed?

Having read that outside temperature affects a hybrid more so than a normal car, I should mention that the outside temperature was 6 degrees celcius (43 degrees Fahrenheit).

Also, i have read that most people, with practice, averages no more than 50 MPG in a HSD. I must admit that, with practice, I am hoping to easily achieve 57 mpg and when REALLY focusing somewhere in the 70s and from time to time match the EU standard.

All in all: I could easily see myself buy the new Auris HSD (albeit as a wagon) but I'd expect to achieve 57 mpg with ease. If not, what is the point of the HSD with 1.6 petrol not being to far away from (officially) getting 50 MPG.

I hope some of you can provide me with some tips on how to make the most of the HSD system.

Thanks,

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Hi Nicolai,

In order to acheive MPG figures approaching 70 I would make the following suggestions:

First , run the car in. Around 5000 miles will just about see the engine/transmission properly run in.

Second , use the car in ambient temperatures which are consistantly over 20C.

Third, use the car on slow speed routes where the quickest vehicles do not exceed 50 MPH.

Fourth, learn to drive a hybrid... they really do require a driving style which calls for predictive manoevres to be adopted in order to maintain smooth progress and minimal use of accelerator and brakes.

Fifth, choose your travelling time to enable you to be on the road when most others arent.

70 MPG is possible but it is a faff to acheive it.

When travelling at motorway speeds, a diesel gets the job done far better and more easily than a hybrid and so my last piece of advice is to buy a car which suits a style of driving which is acceptable to you..... There are a lot of people complaining about how they bought a hybrid and they cant get good fuel consumption and most of them just brought a car which wasnt suited to the type of job they wanted it to do. Should we save up and buy a 200MPH ferrari in order to cut through the London traffic quicker? if so, would we fit it with a tow bar so that we can carry the weekly shopping much easier?

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My third test drive with HSD:

Car felt solidly built although some of the materials used (dashboard, LCD clock etc.) are a bit nasty.

Like expected, the HSD turned out to be great when driving slow in the city due to EV mode.

I drove in Eco mode almost constantly, however, it was hard to accelerate without having the 1.8 kicking in. Moreover, from the fuel graphics on the screen, it seems that the 1.8 uses quite a bit of fuel when accelerating. I WAS able to accelerate on batteries alone but the acceleration was very slow. In fact, it was so slow that people driving behind me honked their horns so as to say: get on with it. Pushing the accelerator anything more than feather lightly resulted in the 1.8 kicking in.

I drove economically in city/town area , averaging a speed of only 20 mph but you can't drive like that normally. How do I make the car drive economically at a normal speed?

Having read that outside temperature affects a hybrid more so than a normal car, I should mention that the outside temperature was 6 degrees celcius (43 degrees Fahrenheit).

Also, i have read that most people, with practice, averages no more than 50 MPG in a HSD. I must admit that, with practice, I am hoping to easily achieve 57 mpg and when REALLY focusing somewhere in the 70s and from time to time match the EU standard.

All in all: I could easily see myself buy the new Auris HSD (albeit as a wagon) but I'd expect to achieve 57 mpg with ease. If not, what is the point of the HSD with 1.6 petrol not being to far away from (officially) getting 50 MPG.

I hope some of you can provide me with some tips on how to make the most of the HSD system.

Thanks,

Remember the HSD is an automatic and you definitely won't get 50 mpg out of a standard 1.6 petrol Auto in mixed driving.

Even your figure of 50 mpg for the 1.6 manual is the manufacturer's quoted figure and the quoted figure for the HSD is 70 mpg under the same test conditions. So if the HSD does only 55 by you style of driving then the standard 1.6 manual will probably do nearer 40 mpg actual.

I find with the Prius that at temperatures below 10 deg C I get low 40s mpg increasing to high 40s at 10-15 deg C and high 50s mpg at temps above that. That is on my short 3 mile commute, where the engine barely gets to temperature in winter. On a longer run on quiet A-roads at speeds of 50-60 mph I can achieve 70+ mpg in the summer and high 60s in winter.

Having the AC on makes little difference, maybe 1-2 mpg, but having the heater on causes the engine to cut in more often to keep the cabin warm.

Also I find that using ECO mode makes the car feel dull and I always end up having to give it more gas to compensate so I use more fuel.

ECO and PWR modes also affect the acceleration when in EV (electric) mode.

My advice is leave the car in normal mode, keep your tyres pumped up ( I usually add 2-3 psi over standard pressures to decrease the rolling resisitance), try to use the heater as little as possible and anticipate traffic ahead.

Next time you have a test drive, switch off the ECO button, check the tyre pressures and if they'll let you, pump them up and turn off the heater on the test drive.

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Also I find that using ECO mode makes the car feel dull and I always end up having to give it more gas to compensate so I use more fuel.

Are you sure you use more fuel? It would be interesting if you have test data.

ECO mode will change the accelerator pedal mapping so you have to press it further down to get the same acceleration but it shouldn't use any more fuel. With the Toyota HSD, the accelerator pedal is 'drive by wire' and is not mechanically connected to the petrol engine, so pressing it further down does not always equate to 'use more gas'.

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Drive it like a normal car and see how it goes. Fuel economy can be down 10-20% in colder weather, and even worse if you only do short journeys. Don't worry about trying to force eco mode, just let the car do its thing.

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All in all: I could easily see myself buy the new Auris HSD (albeit as a wagon) but I'd expect to achieve 57 mpg with ease. If not, what is the point of the HSD with 1.6 petrol not being to far away from (officially) getting 50 MPG.

I hope some of you can provide me with some tips on how to make the most of the HSD system.

Thanks,

Nicolai

You have been banging on about this very same subject for 6 months or more, and very many contributors have given you tips on driving a Hybrid. Just face some facts here, it is VERY unlikely you will get anywhere near 70 MPG. I drove an Auris HSD for the best part of 12 months and a Prius before that, the Prius returned 57 on average and the Auris 55, i could get those figures nearly all year round and I doubt you will ever get near 70

Will you ever get a new car or just keep coming back with the same questions? sorry if that offends, but as Ive said before, my troll buttons have been pressed with your same questions over and over again

Kingo :thumbsup:

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Also I find that using ECO mode makes the car feel dull and I always end up having to give it more gas to compensate so I use more fuel.

Are you sure you use more fuel? It would be interesting if you have test data.

ECO mode will change the accelerator pedal mapping so you have to press it further down to get the same acceleration but it shouldn't use any more fuel. With the Toyota HSD, the accelerator pedal is 'drive by wire' and is not mechanically connected to the petrol engine, so pressing it further down does not always equate to 'use more gas'.

Wow, I'll just drive around with my foot flat down all the time then if it doesn't use more fuel.

Whether it's fly by wire or or not makes no difference, more pedal uses more fuel.

Test data not needed, it's common sense, but if you want some look at the instant mpg readout. Press the pedal down more and the instant mpg goes down. Der !

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All in all: I could easily see myself buy the new Auris HSD (albeit as a wagon) but I'd expect to achieve 57 mpg with ease. If not, what is the point of the HSD with 1.6 petrol not being to far away from (officially) getting 50 MPG.

I hope some of you can provide me with some tips on how to make the most of the HSD system.

Thanks,

Nicolai

You have been banging on about this very same subject for 6 months or more, and very many contributors have given you tips on driving a Hybrid. Just face some facts here, it is VERY unlikely you will get anywhere near 70 MPG. I drove an Auris HSD for the best part of 12 months and a Prius before that, the Prius returned 57 on average and the Auris 55, i could get those figures nearly all year round and I doubt you will ever get near 70

Will you ever get a new car or just keep coming back with the same questions? sorry if that offends, but as Ive said before, my troll buttons have been pressed with your same questions over and over again

Kingo :thumbsup:

Kingo,

I understand that it may seem weird to you that I "cannot make a decision" but allow me try and explain why choosing my next car is so difficult and a VERY big decision:

In Denmark, we pay three times the UK price for a car due to our Government taxing cars by a 180 per cent. Outrageous really, however, this car tax is a major source of income for the Government and in return for paying a very high income tax (lowest percentage is around 37 per cent whilst the people with the high incomes pay more than half) we get free public schools, free grammar schools, free hospitals and free health insurance.

Now, suffer from cerebral palsy, am unemployed with a wife and a nine month old son. My current Suzuki is up for swap around summer and as it too will be a handicap car, I really need for it to be reliable (car in garage means I cannot go anywhere- not even to the closest shop half a mile from our place). Being married to a Japanese, our family of course favours Toyota, Honda, Subaru et al., however, overall, I trust Toyota the most (despite the frequent recalls of late). The Danish Toyota customers are consistently among the most satisfied customers in Denmark (for the last 5 years in a row, T has been voted the best make 3 or four times only rivalled by BMW.

So, as far as reliability and customer satisfaction go, Toyota has my trust. Despite low annual mileage I want a car that makes the most of every drop of petrol as I will be "bound" to the car for a minimum of six years (and who knows what we will pay for gallon six years from now?). So, the HSD seems to tick all of my boxes. The CVT is a bit noisy during acceleration, however, I'll bet that it'll prove more reliable than my Swift's Automated Manual Transmission (equivalent to T's multi mode transmission).

I guess the main reason I keep asking/ worrying about HSD MPG is that I have heard that HSD is more prone to deviate wastly from the officially MPG which is calculated using the EU norm/method. I realiable normal Otto cycle engines/cars deviate as well but perhaps not so much?

My farther-in-law drives a Prius and told me that he averages 56 mpg. Whilst acceptable, I do not consider this extraordinary, however if, in time, I can learn to average this with no hassle and normal "Otto cycle" driving style, I think it is OK. A Danish car magazine actually voted the old Auris HSD most green family and averaged 68 MPG driving on motorway (70 MPH). This is exceptional in my opinion and I guess it proves the Jekyll/Hyde thing about the HSD: drive it like a normal car and you will get "normal MPG", accept that driving the HSD is a learning curve, and you will be rewarded accordingly.

Also, in my case, currently doing just 5,000 miles per year and a lot of city driving, the lack of DPF is a must.

The reason I haven't made a purchase yet is because I am not allowed to BEFORE the municipality has approved that my current car may be swapped. Most likely, I will have the answer around August.

Sorry is that offends, but is a big decision for me to make, hence, I want to do as much research as is humanly possible before paying all my savings for a family wagon.

No trolling intended at all and I hope this post has given a little insight as to why I keep asking some question (which I hope you will still allow me to do).

I hope you all understand,

Nicolai

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Thanks for the clarification Kingo.

I agree with your logic: if you are doing a lot of city driving, the HSD sounds like a good car (unless you go for something like a Nissan Leaf...)

All cars in real life fail to achieve manufacturer's reported mileage. Sad fact of life. I get 55-57MPG average from my Prius. Which I am very pleased at. I have achieved averages of over 80 MPG (yes, really) and that included driving at reasonable speeds, so it is possible to achieve or even exceed the manufacturer figures but (a) it requires specialist techniques (google "Pulse and glide") (B) it takes time and © it's the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with you DPF is not feasible for short distance travelling. I too do short distances and with my last diesel I ended up going on a longish journey just so I could clear the DPF! Which was a bit of a silly situation...

Also, as stated, do not forget that the HSD is a fully automatic system so don't compare it with diesel MPG on a manual gearbox and doing long runs.

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Also I find that using ECO mode makes the car feel dull and I always end up having to give it more gas to compensate so I use more fuel.

Are you sure you use more fuel? It would be interesting if you have test data.

ECO mode will change the accelerator pedal mapping so you have to press it further down to get the same acceleration but it shouldn't use any more fuel. With the Toyota HSD, the accelerator pedal is 'drive by wire' and is not mechanically connected to the petrol engine, so pressing it further down does not always equate to 'use more gas'.

Wow, I'll just drive around with my foot flat down all the time then if it doesn't use more fuel.

Whether it's fly by wire or or not makes no difference, more pedal uses more fuel.

Test data not needed, it's common sense, but if you want some look at the instant mpg readout. Press the pedal down more and the instant mpg goes down. Der !

Let's suppose you want 50% power for acceleration.

If the car is in NORMAL mode you press the throttle down 50% to get that.

If the car is in PWR mode you press the throttle down 30% (say) to get that.

If the car is in ECO mode you have to press the throttle down say 80%.

Same amount of power. Same amount of petrol used. But the pedal operation is different for each mode.

People are just not used to the idea of a remapped throttle response and automatically assumed that pressing the throttle down further means you are going to use more fuel. That is indeed the case when keeping the throttle mapping the same. But not necessarily so when the throttle mapping is varied. That's all that Kitmo was saying in his first comment!

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That's exactly what I was trying to say, and when you're at 80% throttle in ECO mode thinking, when is this thing going to pick up, you tend to give it full beans and end up using more fuel doing that than you would have with a more responsive throttle.

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That's exactly what I was trying to say, and when you're at 80% throttle in ECO mode thinking, when is this thing going to pick up, you tend to give it full beans and end up using more fuel doing that than you would have with a more responsive throttle.

Been there, done that. :laughing:

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i have read that most people, with practice, averages no more than 50 MPG in a HSD. I must admit that, with practice, I am hoping to easily achieve 57 mpg and when REALLY focusing somewhere in the 70s and from time to time match the EU standard.

With the Yaris HSD (so smaller 1.5 engine) I'm getting around 63mpg real-life figures without trying particularly hard (average for the last tankfull as calculated by me :P ) with temps probably around 8c on average. That's town driving in reasonably fluid traffic on a mix of 30/40/50mph roads. The car was just about bedded in (as per the handbook - so approx 1000 miles) when I last refuelled so mpg should start improving but we're due a cold spell and 0c or thereabouts isn't going to do much for it. Best on single trip so far according to the computer since getting the car: 75.9mpg but it was a fairly warm day!

Edit: I just leave the car in normal mode and let it get on with it. And I do have a reasonably heavy right foot when accelerating :P So I'm perfectly happy, and expecting mpg to improve when spring comes around.

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You said 50 ish MPG is not impressive, i challenge you to find a similarly sized vehicle with a similarly sized engine in either petrol or diesel variant driving mainly in town to achieve that. you will consistently hit 50 or above but forget 70 plus.

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You said 50 ish MPG is not impressive, i challenge you to find a similarly sized vehicle with a similarly sized engine in either petrol or diesel variant driving mainly in town to achieve that. you will consistently hit 50 or above but forget 70 plus.

That's what I mean: due to the fact(?) that HSD is more sensitive to one's driving style, it seems the official MPG is much more overrated than the 44 mpg in the 1.8 Civic auto. In that car, 44 mpg is actually achievable and some people can get more.

But as I stated, if I can get 50 mpg with trying, that would be acceptable.

Can someone tell me how the keyless works? I thought one could lock the car by pressing "lock" on the key and then just touch the door handle for the car to open up. Didn't work for me.

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As stated, I've had 80MPG reported on the gauge a few times, with careful driving. But definitely not in the city!

Keyless entry should allow you to do exactly what you tried. However, if you try to open the door too soon after locking, it might not work. There is a delay in the system, which I presume is to prevent accidental re-opening as you walk off with your hand still on the handle. Give it a second before you try to re-open.

There is another possible reason why it didn't work for you. When I got my Prius, in an effort to show off (you would think I would have learned by now) I remote locked the car and then told my wife (standing on the other side of the car) to open it by pressing the door handle. That's how I discovered the handle press trick only works if the key is beside THAT door. D'oh!

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i have read that most people, with practice, averages no more than 50 MPG in a HSD. I must admit that, with practice, I am hoping to easily achieve 57 mpg and when REALLY focusing somewhere in the 70s and from time to time match the EU standard.

I think the "50mpg" you mention is US mpg and not UK.

US gallons are smaller so they will not get so many miles to a gallon as we do in the UK.

For us, 50mpg+ is easy to average in a Toyota HSD.

Just look on fuelly at Toyota HSD vehicles for real world mpg data.

For example http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

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i have read that most people, with practice, averages no more than 50 MPG in a HSD. I must admit that, with practice, I am hoping to easily achieve 57 mpg and when REALLY focusing somewhere in the 70s and from time to time match the EU standard.

I think the "50mpg" you mention is US mpg and not UK.

US gallons are smaller so they will not get so many miles to a gallon as we do in the UK.

For us, 50mpg+ is easy to average in a Toyota HSD.

Just look on fuelly at Toyota HSD vehicles for real world mpg data.

For example http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

I was speaking about UK MPGs. Fuelly has a lot settings (gas, Gas H4 etc.) I am not sure about. Also, As I understand it, it is easier to get good real life MPG in the Prius as it is more aero dynamical than the Auris. Although the have reduced the drag on the 2013 Auris.

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I was speaking about UK MPGs. Fuelly has a lot settings (gas, Gas H4 etc.) I am not sure about. Also, As I understand it, it is easier to get good real life MPG in the Prius as it is more aero dynamical than the Auris. Although the have reduced the drag on the 2013 Auris.

I think 0.28 for the newer Auris, 0.25 for 2010 Prius (not sure if 2010 is the latest for the Prius). But the newer Auris would be closer to the 2001 Prius in drag.

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So, a LOT worse than the current Prius then? But still an improvement over the old Auris.

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So, a LOT worse than the current Prius then? But still an improvement over the old Auris.

Looks like! Question would be, how important is drag coefficient at low speeds?

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Can someone explain the proper use of the "B"-braking method? Apparently, it wears gears to use it but if you don't the Battery may be overcharged shortening its life? Which is the lesser of two evils?

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For the love of God Nicolai, please stop posting bull**** about the Auris or Prius, you don't own one and probably never will.

People have been very kind on here and given you lots of advice in the past but you still keep asking stupid questions like how much to change a gearbox?

I for one hope that you never get a Toyota as they are too good for you......

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B-mode is similar to using a lower gear when going on a long and/or steep downhill in a manual car - it's engine braking - so that's when you use it, end of.

Oh and was out in the Yaris HSD earlier - temp 5c, about 25 miles trip on 30/40/50mph roads and got 65.4mpg and that was without particularly trying to be economical so I can't see a reason why an Auris wouldn't be able to return a decent mpg

Edit: I'm all for doing some research before buying certain things (a car is definitely one of them) but maybe you need to make a decision at some point?!

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Can someone explain the proper use of the "B"-braking method? Apparently, it wears gears to use it but if you don't the battery may be overcharged shortening its life? Which is the lesser of two evils?

Sorry, that reads as pure troll - clearly you (or the original authors?) do not have even a very basic knowledge of how a Toyota Hybrid works.

The ECU managing the HV Battery will only let it charge up to approx 80% SOC, so how can the HV Battery be overcharged?

The Hybrid Transaxle (the gears!) are the only route for power to be transferred from the "engine" (Petrol and/or Electric) to the wheels and in the case of regenerative braking the energy is transferred from the wheels back through the transaxle to the "engine".

Ignoring the absurd made up either/or case, braking in a Toyota Hybrid whether initiated with the brake pedal or from "engine" braking, will first use regenerative braking which charges up the HV Battery, if the HV Battery is full, the system will then switch either to the friction brakes for braking initiated by the brake pedal, or when B-mode is enabled will use Petrol engine to slow down.

If we go back to your absurd statement, it wouldn't be a case of the lesser of two evils, but one evil and then the other!

Guess what, even when the Petrol engine is idling the Hybrid Transaxle is in operation wearing out those gears! Best not run the car at all...

B-mode is similar to using a lower gear when going on a long and/or steep downhill in a manual car - it's engine breaking - so that's when you use it, end of.

Er, it's braking not breaking... :oops:

From a safety point of view, I think it is worth mentioning the reason for controlling a decent down a long/steep hill with the "engine" braking (B-mode/Low gear) and not the friction brakes, is that if you had the friction brakes applied all the way down the long/steep hill (sometime referred to as riding the brakes down the hill?) there is a good possibility that the brakes would become so hot that they would become useless.

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