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ToyotaAurisHybrid

New Auris Hybrid On Order

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Homologated? Cant do it in UK but can do it in Germany and France? What happened to all this European unity the politicians tell us about? I would imagine the European courts would go to town on the illegality of one size of wheel available in this European state more legally than another European state.

To my mind, this just smacks of an insurance company ploy with which they can chisel more money from people who wish to change wheel sizes, citing convenient and important sounding homologation regulations in order to strengthen their case.

I'd imagine it is as simple as Toyota of France/UK/Germany customising the vehicles to best suit what they believe the taste and market is in that country.

It's well known that through magazines and TV shows that the UK is 'big wheel obsessed', thus they think the car looks better and more stylish on 17" low profiles and so cater to that. Look in a UK car magazine and spot words like 'wheels don't fill the arches' etc. Other European nations sell cars more on practicality and fuel economy.

I really dislike the fact my Auris 1 hybrid needs silly low profile 215/45/R17 Y tyres which are very expensive tyres to buy (£80 a corner for Barums) and that the 17" wheels damage fuel economy and emissions. My previous car ran on 205/55/R16 H tyres which cost £45 a corner. If the new Auris doesn't have a spare wheel as even an option that is a very, very big black mark against it for me. Try getting a new tyre or recovery in the Highlands at 7pm on a Sunday night....

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There is certainly one Toyota dealer selling Auris space saver spare wheels on their ebay site.

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Hi

I have finally managed to order an Auris Sport Touring Hybrid Excel with 16" wheels and a space saver and I am "Happy". Toyota Customer Services still cannot understand why I want this configuration even when I pointed out the brochure quotes 6mpg less for the car on 17" wheels than 16", on-line customer reports that it has a hard ride in Excel trim and past experience of poor life and suspension damage caused by LP tyres. I cannot understand why they do not offer a choice or quote the tyre profiles alongside the fuel consumption figures. When car, marketing people, or bean counters, with little driving experience, and no technical ability decide what cars we are allowed to drive you end up with cars like the Allegro, Marina, Scorpio or other flops the public did not buy. I have had four Toyota made cars all good but some had very bad design flaws. Hopefully this will be the best yet.

I still think all folding rear seat backs should lock into a raised, hinged, seat to form a barrier between the rear load and the driver and give a flat solid floor. in the 80's SAAB and Volvo always did this but I still remember my horror when a heavy computer peripheral came adrift smashing the passenger seat and dash of a Ford estate. After that If the estate just had a fold forward rear seat I always had a barrier or lashed the load down Now retired I don't expect to carry heavy loads .

.

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the Allegro, Marina, Scorpio or other flops the public did not buy.

Not that I want to challenge the main drift of your argument, but I think you have to look for better examples to illustrate it.

I know nothing about the Scorpio, but I did recently have access to manufacturing statistics for both the Marina and the Allegro. Neither would have been my favourite car at the time, but lots of our fleet drivers chose them. Over 807,000 Marinas were made in the UK and over 640,000 Allegros


.

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The main problem with both the Allegro and the Marina was that BL didn't have the financial resources of Ford to develop new cars largely from scratch, nor the ability of Vauxhall to cut costs and produce clones of new Opel models. Both the Marina and Allegro were saddled with either old (the A and B series engines, and in the case of the Marina, early models having front suspension dating back to the Morris Minor) or under developed drivetrains ( the E series engines from the Maxi).

Interestingly when Hyundai wanted to develop their own car, they hired George Turnbull (ex-MD of Austin Rover). Turnbull took a Marina coupe and saloon over to Korea and, using the Mitsubishi running gear that Hyundai were already producing, they formed the basis for the first Hyundai Pony which was produced from 1975 to 1982.

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the Allegro, Marina, Scorpio or other flops the public did not buy.

Not that I want to challenge the main drift of your argument, but I think you have to look for better examples to illustrate it.

I know nothing about the Scorpio, but I did recently have access to manufacturing statistics for both the Marina and the Allegro. Neither would have been my favourite car at the time, but lots of our fleet drivers chose them. Over 807,000 Marinas were made in the UK and over 640,000 Allegros

.

I learnt to drive in a Morris Marina........on the day of my driving test my driving instructor had a new clutch installed which gave the car a different feel

But I still passed! :)

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Homologated? Cant do it in UK but can do it in Germany and France? What happened to all this European unity the politicians tell us about?

But there was a recent post about the next round of EU rules for new cars...

I'd imagine it is as simple as Toyota of France/UK/Germany customising the vehicles to best suit what they believe the taste and market is in that country.

Fair enough but they shouldn't claim that having a non standard setup is 'illegal' and refuse to sell it to you, when it is perfectly legal in the rest of the EU (and of course here).

It's well known that through magazines and TV shows that the UK is 'big wheel obsessed', thus they think the car looks better and more stylish on 17" low profiles and so cater to that. Look in a UK car magazine and spot words like 'wheels don't fill the arches' etc. Other European nations sell cars more on practicality and fuel economy.

As you can tell from the different online 'configure your Toyota' webpages across Europe. Practicality is non-existant on the UK one. It is all about the bling.

Hi

I have finally managed to order an Auris Sport Touring Hybrid Excel with 16" wheels and a space saver and I am "Happy".

Good result :thumbsup:

Toyota Customer Services still cannot understand why I want this configuration...

Says it all!

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Homologated? Cant do it in UK but can do it in Germany and France? What happened to all this European unity the politicians tell us about? I would imagine the European courts would go to town on the illegality of one size of wheel available in this European state more legally than another European state.

To my mind, this just smacks of an insurance company ploy with which they can chisel more money from people who wish to change wheel sizes, citing convenient and important sounding homologation regulations in order to strengthen their case.

I doubt it has anything to do with Homologation, that would be taken care of pan European

No, it is far more likely to be that Toyota GB has decided to take that particular specification in the UK. No option for those wheels on that car for their own reasons (marketing??)

Kingo :thumbsup:

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Re Parts-King's comment : "....it is far more likely to be that Toyota GB has decided to take that particular specification in the UK. No option for those wheels on that car for their own reasons (marketing??) "

Exactly: in the same way that you can't 'officially' add cruise control to the Auris HSD T4 (which we chose for the better ride quality & seating position), you have to buy the more expensive T Spirit to get it even though the two cars are the same 'under the skin' (e.g. the T4 has the necessary connection port behind the steering wheel air bag for the cruise control cable although you either have to make a hole in the lower part of the steering wheel cowl for the CC switch gear to go through or buy a TSpirit lower cowl). So yes Kingo, bl---y marketing !!!

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Exactly: in the same way that you can't 'officially' add cruise control to the Auris HSD T4 (which we chose for the better ride quality & seating position), you have to buy the more expensive T Spirit to get it even though the two cars are the same 'under the skin' (e.g. the T4 has the necessary connection port behind the steering wheel air bag for the cruise control cable although you either have to make a hole in the lower part of the steering wheel cowl for the CC switch gear to go through or buy a TSpirit lower cowl). So yes Kingo, bl---y marketing !!!

It's nothing new - the Gen 1 Prius had fully functioning cruise control right down to the indicator lamp, just missing switches (in those days, you had to replace the parking brake light switch for one that had an extra terminal.

By chance after driving my first Gen 1 for 10,000 miles, I found out it had the right steering wheel for cruise, my dealer ordered the parts and hey presto. Sadly, a month later the car got totalled by a guy going through a red light, and my replacement Gen 1 had the 'wrong' steering wheel, so it cost £240 extra for a new steering wheel as well!

Not only that, there was no way of fitting the Japanese (right hand drive) heated door mirrors without massively expensive extra wiring, but buy a Prius in Portugal, for example, and it came with heated mirrors as standard (that were probably never used!).

It seems this was all down to local marketing decisions.

What I find hard to understand is why a company that can produce such brilliant Hybrid technology can be so off course with their marketing. Witness wheel size, spare wheel debates too.

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PeteB,

"Off course" - or just short-sightedly greedy ? !

BTW: my dealer has declined to fit the parts for me. Yours did - but was any warranty you had compromised ?. And what about the effect on Insurance - presumably your provider upped your premium on the basis of it being a modification rather than a 'recognised' option.

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PeteB,

"Off course" - or just short-sightedly greedy ? !

BTW: my dealer has declined to fit the parts for me. Yours did - but was any warranty you had compromised ?. And what about the effect on Insurance - presumably your provider upped your premium on the basis of it being a modification rather than a 'recognised' option.

I don't think the marketing side are that clever! (but that's just my humble opinion) :chinese:

Nope to both :clap: - since the bulk of the system was already in place, and it was finished by fitting official Toyota parts by a main dealer, the insurance company just logged it but charged nothing extra, and Toyota didn't have any problems with the warranty for the same reason.

My dealer fitted the parts on 2 Gen 1s, a Gen 2 and my current Gen 3 T3. I've heard of another owner getting the switches fitted by a London dealer too.

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I now have my new Auris Excel HSD Touring Sport. I love the car but it could be so much better if Toyota listened to customers and engineers rather than marketing. The use of space is very good. I like the looks,size and drive. I love the reversing camera and DAB radio,trim and seats. The ride is OK on good roads and motorways. Despite the dealers willingness to provide it on 16" wheels I had to accept it on 17" as the insurance company viewed different wheels as a modification form the spec.( (they were not listed as a option) The result is average fuel consumption is only 50 mpg (my Prius Was 55.8 mpg). The space saver spare kit is very good. Lots of room, so much I think it would take a full size spare, and covers fit back perfect.

My only real complaint is the speedo. It is small and well out of eyeline. Even worse there are not any 30mph or 50 mph markers. Between the speedo and power indicator is a very nice , clear, digital trip information display which shows all sorts of superfluous information like Average Speed, Eco drive level (still do not know what that shows) and Settings not Available. If this gave a digital readout of Speed it would be great. Toyota GB say it cannot be changed but if it can read average speed it must be able to read Speed. Has anybody tried to access the on board computer on a Hybrid via the ODB port? If I cannot get anybody from Toyota to help, or even understand and admit the problem I will have to hack in myself. The way it is I could lose my licence . I have filled out loads of surveys the only thing I cannot find is who Is responsible for making changes, or who decided digital speed was unnecessary. Does anybody know who at Toyota can get things changed?

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My only real complaint is the speedo. .... If this gave a digital readout of Speed it would be great.

This might be of interest on another thread, but you would need to check it works in the Prius as he's fitted it to his other car...

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/153089-new-auris-excel-sport-tourer-hybrid-vs-prius/?p=1299580

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... I love the car but it could be so much better if Toyota listened to customers and engineers rather than marketing....

Indeed - IF ONLY ! :bangin:

In 2003, about 6 months before the Gen 2 Prius (then called the "2004 model") was lunched in the UK, about 20 members of the Yahoo Prius-UK group were invited to a prelaunch bash at Twickenham.

Nice sarnis, wine, a face-to-face chat with other group members for the first time (and the biggest line-up of Gen 1 Prius we'd ever seen in the car park!), and a chat with Toyota tekkies and the like.

Then a photo session with a nice red left hand drive Prius, then we were allowed to climb all over it (but not drive it).

Then they asked lots of questions, took lots of notes. What did we like, not like, what would make us buy it?

I know for a fact that many of us said the same thing:

  • PLEASE: a proper spare wheel, not a space saver (several members took all the trays out of the boot to measure and prove a full size wheel would fit - they couldn't have missed that!).
  • sensible wheels (tyres for 14" wheels on Gen 1 cost about £40 each from a dealer! - tyres for my firm's Gen 2s were over £100 each, and lasted no longer - I spent £1,000 on tyres over 150,000 miles - in a Gen 2 it would have cost me almost £2½k! - that's a very nice extra holiday, thank you very much :clap: )
  • Heated mirrors an absolute must and very, very sorely missed on the Gen 1
  • the smart entry of the model they'd brought seemed popular
  • Would we like a rear view camera? - definitely (this did appear on the T-Spirit from 2006 onwards after a minor facelift)

The chatter on the group afterwards was very positive. Lovely to see Toyota so keen to get feedback from loyal customers.

I test drove a T-Spirit in December that year, expecting to sign an order on the spot. Imagine my horror to find:

  • 16" wheels
  • space saver
  • NO heated mirrors
  • no smart entry (not until Gen 3 - 6 years later) (but rest of Europe got heated mirrors and Smart Entry)
  • no camera

The admiration I had for Toyota was very nearly completely lost, but for my love of the Hybrid system.

From spy shots I've seen I'm deeply worried that the next Prius will have the same instruments as the Auris/Yaris, virtually no oddments storage inside the car and maybe no spare wheel at all.

I'm having a test drive of a BMW i3 shortly, but suspect there's no spare wheel on that either - an absolute NO NO for me.

Before buying my Gen 3, I very seriously considered searching for a pristine Gen 1 and having my brilliant Toyota dealer in Norwich do full restoration project on it, fit Japanese model door mirrors etc. But I'm very happy with my Gen 3 T3 with added cruise control, the optional SatNav, HUD, digital displays, rear camera, heated folding mirrors and sensible wheels. Still miss the Gen 1s virtues of full size spare wheel, two reversing lights, two rear fog lights though.

Regards, PeteB

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Toyota should get the message that the majority of customers want a car with a spare wheel. I would be interested in buying the new Gen 4 Prius but if it has no spare wheel and instuments you cannot readily see then I am not so interested. Why on earth is Toyota doing away with the HUD? I agree Toyota should listen to its customers. I use cruise control regularly especially in speed limit areas. I think it is a must have these days.

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I use cruise control regularly especially in speed limit areas. I think it is a must have these days.

That reminds me - the one thing I wish it did was work down to below 20 mph. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't, especially on the Hybrid system.

The Hybrid is so quiet at low speed, it's really hard to maintain 20 for any distance without looking at the speedo so much you might run someone over anyway! At least the HUD helps ('till they get rid of that too!) :no:

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Thanks Pete for the info on the Hud-e I will look into that if I cannot get any help from Toyota. My point is that the info is available at the ODB and it should be simple update to show it on the trip information display ( or even the centre screen). I just cannot get to the person at Toyota to make it happen.

These "marketing people" are idiot's who seem to be working against Toyota and its customers.

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Thanks Pete for the info on the Hud-e I will look into that if I cannot get any help from Toyota. My point is that the info is available at the ODB and it should be simple update to show it on the trip information display ( or even the centre screen). I just cannot get to the person at Toyota to make it happen.

These "marketing people" are idiot's who seem to be working against Toyota and its customers.

I tried to get them to develop an add on to display extra info on the lower MFD, such as ICE RPM, coolant temperature, MG2 RPM using nice graphics.

It's easy to download such things via a USB stick (which is how I updated the SatNav and installed the "Glass of Water" game. I even pointed out that they could charge or it, as many people would probably buy it if the price was realistic.

Unfortunately, I think this is a lost cause.

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These "marketing people" are idiots...

Marketing does seem to attract them. :(

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  • Club Hybrid Poll

  • 201 Hybrid Reliability

    1. 1. If you were to consider buying a Hybrid model over 5 years old, would you be worried about the reliability of the Hybrid system?


      • Not really as Hybrid systems are always reliable
      • Not if it had a Manufacturers Warranty on the Hybrid system
      • I would not buy a Hybrid model over 5 years old