Kuga

[pajjy]

It is probably down to the deals that ford and Vauxhall promote rather then the quality of the product.

Personally I would have an Auris or Avensis over a Focus or Mondeo anyday.

Yes i knew there would be some excuse, oops sorry, a reason all those thousand and thousands of buyers making the same mistake.

All the rest of the cars in the top ten must also have had special deals then.

[firemac]

It is probably down to the deals that ford and Vauxhall promote rather then the quality of the product.

Personally I would have an Auris or Avensis over a Focus or Mondeo anyday.

I reckon it's a lot more complicated than that, David. As well as the financial incentives, there's also things like

• brand loyalty - "My Dad always drove one of those" or "We're on our fith with no probs, why would we change?;
• dealer loyalty - "We've bought our cars there since 1959, lovely people";
• people often buy the same model of car they learned to drive in;
• zenophobia - "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Jap/German/French/etc car!";
• pig ignorance - "All Vauxhalls/Fords/Nissans/etc are excrement - my uncle's mate's best friend had one in 1973 and had no end of trouble with it" (Although this is true in the case of most LR products!).

There's also perceived quality - Ford has been doing this particularly well in the past 15 years or so. Things like exterior design flourishes (the Fiesta is a good example - it's a sharp design), tactile interior surfaces (making plastic feel good), well-focused eqpt levels, driving fun factor, etc. I've read in more than one enlightened road test (i.e. NOT What Car?) that the current Mondeo is more than a match, perceived quality-wise, for a 3-series. Having driven a few, I'd say that's not wrong.

On the other hand, Toyota, like a lot of the Japanese car manufacturers, don't seem to get this right. There's nothing wrong with their build quality but their levels of finish just don't compare with the European competition. I agree that they are usually far & away much more reliable and therefore the best buying option, but most people don't think that deeply; they are shallow and are sucked in by showroom appeal, perceived quality & price. Having said that, I can't understand why Honda can produce a bike like my 13 year old Fireblade with a level of quality & finish such that it still looks and rides like new today but they can't do the same with their cars. Don't get me wrong, the cars are excellent pieces of engineering & build quality, they just don't exhibit it in the same way as they do on the bikes.

Personally I love all the Toyotas that we've had over the past 13 or 14 years, especially the 4 RAV's, but I'll be the first to admit that they could do a whole lot better on things like interior finishes. Even my LC4, which had just as many toys as a Disco, cost just as much and was 10 times the vehicle in terms of ability & reliability, just didn't feel like an expensive up-market vehicle in the same way as a Disco or a RR does (God forgive my blasphemy!!!!!).

[Dippy]

The ONLY reason I'd switch brand is because I felt Toyota forgot little creature comforts. I can only get one-shot windows on the driver's - others have it on all. Switchgear doesn't illuminate. I have an electric driver's seat with no memory function - what's the point in that?

But up until my discovery of 2AD engine issues, I was quite happy with the brand. I'm also treated quite well by the garage. My only alternative to date is an X3, and here BMW salesmen treat you like it's a privilege to be allowed to talk to them. I couldn't imagine going there with an out-of-warranty issue.

Desperately wish that Lexus would release a RAV variant, but as I understand they are allergic to diesel in their 4x4s, that won't happen soon. I was in a Lexus Land Cruiser in Mongolia a couple of years ago - mmmm :)

[Plutus]

New Kuga 163bhp Poweshift Auto CO2 162gm, mpg 45.6

New Rav 4 2.2 Auto 167gm CO2, 42.16 mpg

Tiguan auto 140 150gm CO2, 48.7mpg

Tiguan auto 177 bhp 158gm CO2, 47.1 mpg

Not much mention of Focus on this thread, one of the best hatchbacks ever.

i still think Tiguan is the one currently to beat, especially now the SE is available with the 177bhp engine at virtually no mpg penalty. 7.5% discount as well. (oh and you can specify HID's)

Long term RAV will probably be a better buy after the facelift, hopefully with new engines.

[anchorman]

Well this topic has certainly fueled some debate. It's why we should all be sat in the pub and discussing it!!!

I think you have hit the nail on the head Jim. I know nothing much about cookers or mobile phones (except I detest the damn things) so I guess I would stick to a known brand - especially if one looked nice.

As for Ford Focus, it is one of the reasons I am not a big Ford lover. Despite the fact they look nice I have had several dealings with mechanical issues and a company like Ford should have it nailed - it started with the Escort MkIII in about 1980.

[Parts-King]

There are some silly people about. and there is no accounting for taste.

In 2010 the popular top 4 selling cars were Fiesta,Astra,Focus and corsa.

in 2011 it was Fiesta,Focus,Corsa and Golf.

IN 2012 it was Fiesta Corsa, Focus and Astra.

Cant understand that, have these people not heard of Wonderful Toyota.

They cant have as theres not one in the Top Ten best Selling cars for those years.

They dont seem to be fleet size cars that sales person use so that cant be used as an escuse.

Though saying that the Focus that was parked next to mine looked very big indeed to what they used to be.

Most of those models ARE Fleet deals and not retail, they account for a huge part of Vauxhall, Ford and VW sales. They also offer huge discounts to friends and family of workers from the factories

Kingo

[Lindis]

I recently drove the new Kuga as well as the Rav. I had a 30k budget so also tried a used late model X3 and a Q5. The Audi was awful, the ride was very hard and unsteady, the BMW was brilliant and clearly superior to the others, especially the engine. Eventually I ordered a Rav icon and put the change in the bank, had I had a bigger budget I would have bought the BMW without hesitation. For the record the Rav is far superior to the Kuga in every respect

[FROSTYBALLS]

One example of the fleet deals that Vauxhall has done in the past was with British School of Motoring. Up to a few months after GM went into bankruptcy, Vauxhall supplied Corsas and Astras to BSM free of charge. Cars were replaced at six months, and the ex-BSM cars sold through Vauxhall's Network Q programme. The logic behind supplying the cars for free was, aside from the free advertising of Vauxhalls, learners who pass their driving tests are likely to buy the same make of car they learnt to drive in (in this case Vauxhall). It also provided a supply of 6 month old cars for Network Q - as well as the cars from hire fleets.

As a result of the GM bankruptcy, Vauxhall pulled out of the contract - to be replaced by Fiat. Vauxhall are now supplying BSM again - though not sure whether the new contract is similar to the original.

[Plutus]

Every one has a different opinion.

I recently drove an x3 and thought the engiine and ride were terrible.

Overrated IMO.

I'm no Ford fanboy though. Of the 3 I've had 2 had failed gearboxes.