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For me the jurys out on this until someone comes up with some long term results,(if there are any)?
Til then I'm erring on the side of caution,and leaving it for the time being.

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http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/05/dont-block-or-remove-the-egr-valve-its-saving-you-money/ Thought this may be of interest to would be blankers.

Thanks to Paul for sending me a blanking plate.. However for the time being as I've discussed with Paul I wont be fitting it as yet.. Reason for this is my car is going better now than ever it has so

You blank it where the conveluted pipe meets the cylinder head. Love the T180 side profile.

Ah just cannot believe that anybody with a 2AD engine who has been around this Forum for a wee while would so much as contemplate making this adjustment, knowing fine well its history of problems, both major and minor, are well documented hereon. I genuinely feel you are courting problems.

I genuinely wish all well who seem to suddenly be subscribing to this hysteria.......you will NOT be referred to as a lot of blankers.......

Big Kev.

Kev.. It is my belief that the engine problems are / were down to mainly piston and ring issues..

I would not for one second think of fitting a blanking plate if I thought even the slightest of problems would occur.. Do has posted in the positive tense for fitting one and this is why I said I will give one a try..

IF and I did use capitals purposely ..If it increase MPG and improves the cars running with NO chance of doing any harm then Im struggling to think of a reason not to fit one !

If there are any risks involved then sod that game .... Simples.........

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Madness, complete utter madness - leave it alone or you'll bugger your engine - do you not think Toyota would have thought this through?

Jerry I would be genuinely interested to hear some facts as to why removing this piece of emission equipment will cause problems ?

Emissions kit is the absolute bain of the modern diesel engine I think few would differ on that one !

Many other brand owners have done this removal (VW owners swear by it ) with out any issues whatsoever and considerable gains ...

Why exactly or more importantly how will blanking off the EGR "Bugger the engine ) ???

Like many here I'm sure I'm curious to know !

Like everyone else I do not want to cause trouble under the bonnet !

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Ah just cannot believe that anybody with a 2AD engine who has been around this Forum for a wee while would so much as contemplate making this adjustment, knowing fine well its history of problems, both major and minor, are well documented hereon. I genuinely feel you are courting problems.

I genuinely wish all well who seem to suddenly be subscribing to this hysteria.......you will NOT be referred to as a lot of blankers.......

Big Kev.

Kev.. It is my belief that the engine problems are / were down to mainly piston and ring issues..

I would not for one second think of fitting a blanking plate if I thought even the slightest of problems would occur.. Do has posted in the positive tense for fitting one and this is why I said I will give one a try..

IF and I did use capitals purposely ..If it increase MPG and improves the cars running with NO chance of doing any harm then Im struggling to think of a reason not to fit one !

If there are any risks involved then sod that game .... Simples.........

Abseulement, Charlie min......only thing that I would reflect on about the 2AD engine and messing therewith is it has no history of forewarning there may be a problem......it only lets you know when it is catastrophic !!!

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Made a blanking plate (from 2mm stainless steel) for the 4.2 this morning, and fitted it this afternoon. Only took 20 minutes to fit - easy peasy. (Fitted with no gaskets, just a thin smear of exhaust jointing paste on each side of the new plate.)

Took it for a 40km mixed motorway and local road drive, plus the usual mountain track climbs. No problems, no lights.

One problem that does appear to have been sorted is the engine dying (and going into limp mode, EM light on) when asked to go heavy-throttle up a long incline in 3rd or 4th. This has been guaranteed to bring on a limp, for over a year now. This fault now seems to have disappeared, and the engine now revs and pulls enthusiastically up to and past 4500rpm. So, yippee!

Will keep an eye on things, obviously.

Especial thanks to Don for the hearty encouragement.

Chris

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Ah just cannot believe that anybody with a 2AD engine who has been around this Forum for a wee while would so much as contemplate making this adjustment, knowing fine well its history of problems, both major and minor, are well documented hereon. I genuinely feel you are courting problems.

I genuinely wish all well who seem to suddenly be subscribing to this hysteria.......you will NOT be referred to as a lot of blankers.......

Big Kev.

Kev.. It is my belief that the engine problems are / were down to mainly piston and ring issues..

I would not for one second think of fitting a blanking plate if I thought even the slightest of problems would occur.. Do has posted in the positive tense for fitting one and this is why I said I will give one a try..

IF and I did use capitals purposely ..If it increase MPG and improves the cars running with NO chance of doing any harm then Im struggling to think of a reason not to fit one !

If there are any risks involved then sod that game .... Simples.........

Abseulement, Charlie min......only thing that I would reflect on about the 2AD engine and messing therewith is it has no history of forewarning there may be a problem......it only lets you know when it is catastrophic !!!

Mmmm The seed of doubt has been planted... So will do as Paul (Voyager) and sit on the fence till more is posted and Im sure no issues will arise..

Cheers Big Fella.

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Madness, complete utter madness - leave it alone or you'll bugger your engine - do you not think Toyota would have thought this through?

Jerry I would be genuinely interested to hear some facts as to why removing this piece of emission equipment will cause problems ?

Emissions kit is the absolute bain of the modern diesel engine I think few would differ on that one !

Many other brand owners have done this removal (VW owners swear by it ) with out any issues whatsoever and considerable gains ...

Why exactly or more importantly how will blanking off the EGR "Bugger the engine ) ???

Like many here I'm sure I'm curious to know !

Like everyone else I do not want to cause trouble under the bonnet !

Sorry Charlie - didn't mean to get excited and I do bow to your experience and knowledge on the subject (it was actually your expertise that got me a new engine in the first place and i'm really grateful for your help). I'm just a bit paranoid about my engine and don't think i should be taking any chances that may harm it.

Thanks Charlie

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Madness, complete utter madness - leave it alone or you'll bugger your engine - do you not think Toyota would have thought this through?

Jerry I would be genuinely interested to hear some facts as to why removing this piece of emission equipment will cause problems ?

Emissions kit is the absolute bain of the modern diesel engine I think few would differ on that one !

Many other brand owners have done this removal (VW owners swear by it ) with out any issues whatsoever and considerable gains ...

Why exactly or more importantly how will blanking off the EGR "Bugger the engine ) ???

Like many here I'm sure I'm curious to know !

Like everyone else I do not want to cause trouble under the bonnet !

Sorry Charlie - didn't mean to get excited and I do bow to your experience and knowledge on the subject (it was actually your expertise that got me a new engine in the first place and i'm really grateful for your help). I'm just a bit paranoid about my engine and don't think i should be taking any chances that may harm it.

Thanks Charlie

I do understand.. And I do agree that if there is even a tiny % chance that it could be a detrimental step then its just not worth the risk..

I would ask the more technically minded to explain a little more but Im not sure I would understand the answers...

For now I will sit on the fence....

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It is my belief that the engine problems are / were down to mainly piston and ring issues..

It seems possible/likely to me that the 2AD issues are caused by carbon build up on the pistons, and consequential damage to rings or head gasket. Anyone who has ever seen an EGR valve on one of these cars will know how much carbon gets pushed back through the cylinders when the EGR valve opens. For the longevity of the engine (rather than the environment), the best place for this carbon is likely to be down the exhaust, which blanking ensures.

Note that this is just an idle musing based on my (somewhat limited) understanding of the mechanics. Please do not take it as advice to modify your car.

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Made a blanking plate (from 2mm stainless steel) for the 4.2 this morning, and fitted it this afternoon. Only took 20 minutes to fit - easy peasy. (Fitted with no gaskets, just a thin smear of exhaust jointing paste on each side of the new plate.)

Took it for a 40km mixed motorway and local road drive, plus the usual mountain track climbs. No problems, no lights.

One problem that does appear to have been sorted is the engine dying (and going into limp mode, EM light on) when asked to go heavy-throttle up a long incline in 3rd or 4th. This has been guaranteed to bring on a limp, for over a year now. This fault now seems to have disappeared, and the engine now revs and pulls enthusiastically up to and past 4500rpm. So, yippee!

Will keep an eye on things, obviously.

Especial thanks to Don for the hearty encouragement.

Chris

Glad the results are positive so far Chris.

Please keep us posted as to how its going in a week or so.

I have my blanking plate ready.

As Anchs said I dont think I had got a proper seal,which threw up the warning lights.

If and when I try it again I'll use a touch of gasket sealant.

I can see a problem using exhaust paste if you ever wanted to remove the plate,its a pita to move.

I'm a cautious guy by nature,and prefer to wait for others to be the test pilots.

I think the spanner in the works here is the totally unrelated engine issues found with the T180's.

Thanks for posting your findings.

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Madness, complete utter madness - leave it alone or you'll bugger your engine - do you not think Toyota would have thought this through?

Jerry I would be genuinely interested to hear some facts as to why removing this piece of emission equipment will cause problems ?

Emissions kit is the absolute bain of the modern diesel engine I think few would differ on that one !

Many other brand owners have done this removal (VW owners swear by it ) with out any issues whatsoever and considerable gains ...

Why exactly or more importantly how will blanking off the EGR "Bugger the engine ) ???

Like many here I'm sure I'm curious to know !

Like everyone else I do not want to cause trouble under the bonnet !

Sorry Charlie - didn't mean to get excited and I do bow to your experience and knowledge on the subject (it was actually your expertise that got me a new engine in the first place and i'm really grateful for your help). I'm just a bit paranoid about my engine and don't think i should be taking any chances that may harm it.

Thanks Charlie

I do understand.. And I do agree that if there is even a tiny % chance that it could be a detrimental step then its just not worth the risk..

I would ask the more technically minded to explain a little more but Im not sure I would understand the answers...

For now I will sit on the fence....

The problem is, its pretty well untried before on the 180's, so as yet we have nothing to go on.

Theres no right or wrong answer atm.

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The EGR is only fitted to a diesel engine to aid emmission management. From a pure engineering point of view it is counter productive. I'm not saying that blanking it off will cure your fuel consumption problems but it will eliminate EGR related fault codes and it will run without it. It makes no odds to me who does it and who doesn't but if I had an early model and it was causing me P0400 problems I wouldn't think twice about binning it. I can absolutely guarantee this; if an EGR stcks open it will run badly and it will waste fuel.

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The EGR is only fitted to a diesel engine to aid emmission management. From a pure engineering point of view it is counter productive. I'm not saying that blanking it off will cure your fuel consumption problems but it will eliminate EGR related fault codes and it will run without it. It makes no odds to me who does it and who doesn't but if I had an early model and it was causing me P0400 problems I wouldn't think twice about binning it. I can absolutely guarantee this; if an EGR stcks open it will run badly and it will waste fuel.

Aye.....very possibly Don min.......but ah suggest it is NOT done first to Charlie's, as this is the longest lasting engine he has had for YEARS.....LOL.......ah propose Webblers.......any secondisers?

Bad Kev

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The EGR is only fitted to a diesel engine to aid emmission management. From a pure engineering point of view it is counter productive. I'm not saying that blanking it off will cure your fuel consumption problems but it will eliminate EGR related fault codes and it will run without it. It makes no odds to me who does it and who doesn't but if I had an early model and it was causing me P0400 problems I wouldn't think twice about binning it. I can absolutely guarantee this; if an EGR stcks open it will run badly and it will waste fuel.

Aye.....very possibly Don min.......but ah suggest it is NOT done first to Charlie's, as this is the longest lasting engine he has had for YEARS.....LOL.......ah propose Webblers.......any secondisers?

Bad Kev

Hi, you've probably all gathered that i am a sceptic on this EGR hysteria so this is going to be my final comment on the subject!

This engine has been around for quite a long time now (can somebody tell me if they are still making it?).

I'm sure Toyota didn't design the whole lump minus the EGR and then thought 'hang on - emissions control lads! - i know we'll cut a ruddy great hole in it and stick a valve and pipe in it'. My point being that surely the rest of the engine e.g. MAF and other sensors have been designed/included with the EGR in mind.

Charlies info a while back regarding extended engine waranty, specifies that it is for customers experiencing (amongst other things) heavily sooted EGR vavles causing engine problems/failure. You may argue that blanking it off will prevent this - or will it make it worse? Are we sure we really know exactly what's going on with the EGR function?

Thanks, Jerry

Thanks, Jerry

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Jerry twins.

The engine is most certainly still around - even in the latest version 4 RAV although it has evolved a bit.

EGR valves have been included in both petrol and diesel engines for some years now all with the same emmission reducing purpose. The early ones were an add on with a simple pipe from the exhaust to the inlet and some sort of valve to control the flow, so yes, the though "hang on"..............

I don't understand the chemistry of why mixing exhaust with the inlet reduces emmissions but I do understand the principle and the reason. I am not saying that blocking the valve is right but I know that the difference it makes to the emmissions is small enough that it can't be recorded with current MOT test equipment and I do know one person who showed me his mod. He had made pukka blanking shims for each end of the EGR pipe (probably not necessary) and he had the wires connected and he had been twice for MOT with it done that way. He maintained that it didn't adversely effect the running but it had stopped him from needing to often clean out the valve due to sticking, loss of power and warning lights. I also know several other people that run different vehicles that have blanked them. Apparently common on Transits and other Fords.

It isn't as catastrophic as you might think.

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I think the 'chemistry' is fairly straightforward...

When an engine runs, some of the nitrogen in the air ingested (it makes up 40% of it) is combined with oxygen (15% of it) to produce several oxides of nitrogen. These are regarded as a pollutant.

This oxidation happens at high combustion temperatures, and can be reduced by keeping the combustion temperature at around 1800degC or below. By reducing the amount of oxygen available - e.g. by bleeding in some oxygen-depleted exhaust gas into the air intake - the combustion temperature is lowered.

This is now controlled electronically, to occur only under certain driving conditions. On early vehicles, it occurred most of the time.

One of the unintended side-effects is a reduction in available engine power (engines run more powerfully on high-oxygen intake) because the fuel burns less completely. And fuel consumption actually rises somewhat to compensate!

For full details, Wikipedia "Exhaust Gas Recirculation".

Chris

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Inadvertently or urrawise, this thread has become extremely educational......well doned the technical contributors....youz know who youz are......

Big Kev.......only 4.5 years and I can blank mine off.......lol !!!

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I have fitted a few blanks and never got waring lights I must assume you have not sealed it properly, If you cant get it to seat try a blank on both sides that is both ends of the valve not two at one end, it may make it line up better,they are the same size, It will not put the lights on unless you have fitted it badly, and got some kind of leak

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How exactly are you blanking off the EGR? I'm reading this thread with interest as I have problems with the EGR on my other car and without going off topic I'm curious if a remap is involved. I cant find out any help on forums for my other car as it's a Saab TTID and bugger all activity on them forums.

So, what's involved - blank off the EGR valve and install it back into the engine or do you physically remove, disconnect the power and install a blanking plate? If the latter then are you sure your not getting any EML's? What about limp mode as well? I really want to do this to my other car as I've had limp mode twice in 2 years 'cos of P04040 code - so I concurr with you guys if your EGR is problematic then get rid of it.

And, can I share something with you guys - Shell VPOWER diesel will not stop the EGR getting clogged, I've been running this expensive fuel in my Saab for 3 months and last weekend I removed the EGR to inspect & clean - it was black as anything....so what a wasted experiment....back to normal Shell diesel for me. And, dont waste your money on Forte diesel additive as well - I still got a clogged EGR even after using Forte every 3rd tankful.

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Cannot recall anybody on here laying claim to V-Power actually STOPPING carbon build up in the EGR valve. Others including myself did remark that the previously (premature diamonds) solid hard carbon had became a more manageable and easier cleaned softer black sludge, and by virtue of this consistency, was much less likely to jam said valve in the open position.

I cleaned the valve on my previous SR180 twice, which had been run on V-Power for all of its life bar 3000 miles I cannot vouch for. Cleaning was short and easy.

Cannot possibly comment knowledgably on Saabs, or even Ravs, but sounds like you have a deeper problem with it than any fuel is ever gonnae cure.....?

Never thought I would see a thread that could go on longer than Runflats....could this be it....? :spiteful:

Big Kev

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Hope the thread stops soon I wish I had never started it (thinking of buying a KUGA Ford that is) driven Toyota's since 1993 time for a change, It's not been the smooth experience I would have expected, on a lighter note my Rav4 goes in to Harry's in Blackpool next week for the rear suspension recall (not as near as Vantage/Blackburn and RRG Bolton) but I might even look at the new Rav4 I might????? will let you know

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Maybe someone can design a blanking system that can be opened and closed at will...................................a sort of manual EGR valve :rolleyes:

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@Dav- I know what you mean, but technically you would NEVER want to have it be manual because you can really overheat the engine if you have the throttle wide open and the EGR open. One feature of the EGR valve is that it is completely closed when the throttle is fully open so that maximum flow of cold air can enter the engine. If you accidentally left your EGR manually open and gave it too much gas you might deprive your engine of oxygen and thus hinder fuel combustion. It'd be better to leave the EGR valve on than leave it open manually. Closing/blanking it has less risk.

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Ryan, I was meaning a means of isolating the existing EGR without having to remove it to fit/remove a blanking plate.

It was a flippant suggestion really.

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