Don't Buy A Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid.

[Aceshigh84]

Yeah, I know Tesla do it wirelessly, obviously Toyota don't have that tech (although they are now offering a 3g WiFi hotspot as extra). However it doesn't matter how many cars Tesla have, it is pretty remarkable that they can effectively reprogram their car's computer and change parameters that affect the physical drive off the car, and also update their touchscreen (effectively a very big mfd, no?) with the changes, yet Toyota can't alter their little MFD with values that are already available from the ecu.

And if you think about it, Toyota can't use the excuse that the mfd can't display that information, as it is possible to display info such as real time mpg & distance to empty on the mfd, and that very same info is available on the touchscreen. And those values have got to come out of the ecu.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

It's not just Toyota though is it :)

Tesla can, everybody else can't or chooses not to. Why? or why not? Because there's probably a really good reason. And where do these requests stop? I want a particular colour? Why can't they offer it for me? I wanted motorised wing mirrors, they get them in Japan, so why not here? Because Toyota have decided not. If I don;t like it I buy a Ford or a Kia.

Simple :)

[Devon Aygo]

It's not just Toyota though is it :)

Tesla can, everybody else can't or chooses not to. Why? or why not? Because there's probably a really good reason. And where do these requests stop? I want a particular colour? Why can't they offer it for me? I wanted motorised wing mirrors, they get them in Japan, so why not here? Because Toyota have decided not. If I don;t like it I buy a Ford or a Kia.

Simple :)

Two big reasons:

1. Cost to both owners for data contacts, purchasing the car etc and Toyota the cost of including such tec into the 10 million new cars they plan to sell this year alone.

2. Security, we know the tech exists but Tesla is very small scale ATM, imagine millions of Toyota's driving around with a data connection that could potentially allow any reasonably skilled computer geek ( massive and supposedly secure systems and companies are being attacked and hacked regularly ) to gain access to and take control of your car. With your car plugged in ATM I could take control of just about any electronically controlled item such as fueling, throttle, brakes, steering and airbags/ SRS etc. Imagine a virus that stops you starting the car etc. Just imagine the carnage that could be brought about if it could all be done remotely.

Until the tech exists that 100% guarantees this couldn't happen it is not going to happen on a large scale, Toyota being the largest of them all.

[timberwolf]

Why bother with a virus? When Toyota have already created one with their mark two hazard warning switch!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Why bother with a virus? When Toyota have already created one with their mark two hazard warning switch!

Designed in France or was it Belgium? Marvelous. Why do Japanese companies what to Europeanise their cars? All this does is bring marvelous French electrical reliability into the equation. If I wanted that, I'd buy a Peugeot!

The Aygo had QC issues, the Avensis diesel engines problems that my taxi driver colleagues avoided and now the new Auris suffers too. Toyota need to get a grip on this or start to lose their reputation.

[RunningInPleasePass]

I think it's just as someone said, it's economies of scale, Toyota are a world car manufacturer who hope to sell millions, so to keep costs down they limit choice, the Auris range has only a very modest model range, and only a few items on the option list, has anybody ever seen an Audi brochure, it looks like an Argos catalogue?

I think it's a difficult thing to get right, buying a new car, how good is the brand, the dealer network, the size, the fuel efficiency and type, and performance, and that's before you start on the bells and whistles, no wonder you sometimes get it wrong!

The bells and whistles I have found most useful are:

Auto Dipping Rear-view Mirror.

Electrically Folding Outside Mirrors.

Rear View Camera.

The items I find less useful are:

Automatic Lights

Automatic Wipers.

Park Assist.

You could search forever for the perfect car, but sooner or later you would be disappointed!

[Devon Aygo]

Why bother with a virus? When Toyota have already created one with their mark two hazard warning switch!

Designed in France or was it Belgium? Marvelous. Why do Japanese companies what to Europeanise their cars? All this does is bring marvelous French electrical reliability into the equation. If I wanted that, I'd buy a Peugeot!

The Aygo had QC issues, the Avensis diesel engines problems that my taxi driver colleagues avoided and now the new Auris suffers too. Toyota need to get a grip on this or start to lose their reputation.

In terms of Toyota, where the cars are built or designed is of no consequence, all design studios and manufacturing plants use the same ethos and processes as there Japanese equivalents and are quite often managed or staffed by Toyota staff from Japan.

The Auris ( nee corolla ) is sold across the globe including Japan and thevAvensis built at Burnaston is exported back to japan for sale.

The latest recall on Prius ( all Japanese built and designed ) just goes to show where a car is built designed it is not important, mistakes do happen and I for one believe that no other manufacturer does more/better than Toyota to fix them when they make a mistake.

[Aceshigh84]

My point wasn't intended as to why Toyota haven't got wireless updates, I know that isn't possible, or why UK hardware specification is different to other regions. My point is around the fact that the request for the speed display on the mfd is purely a software change, and so could be completed by Toyota without much hassle and then implemented as part of normal service work when Toyota plug the car into the Techstream / servicing computer.

Most niggles with most cars can be fixed by software changes, given that most cars have the majority of their functions managed by the ecu; case in point the reversing beeps or length of time to press the panoramic roof button before opens or closes on the Auris. All customisable via the ecu.

Let's face it, with regards to this hazard light / ecu / Battery discharge problem they currently have, Toyota will not want to have to issue a recall that requires the actual hazard switch to be replaced if they can avoid it by implementing a simple software patch of the ecu that resets the circuit after x minutes.

[orangezorki]

The bells and whistles I have found most useful are:

Auto Dipping Rear-view Mirror.

Electrically Folding Outside Mirrors.

Rear View Camera.

The items I find less useful are:

Automatic Lights

Automatic Wipers.

Park Assist.

You could search forever for the perfect car, but sooner or later you would be disappointed!

Your last point makes perfect sense, because for me my selections would be the exact opposite:

Auto dimming mirror: I find this rarely necessary, and when it is, I find it the easiest switch to flip. Also don't like the weird look when it is on.

Folding mirrors: Don't have a garage, and worry that if it was hit, would cause much more damage than one with manual flip-in (well in 50% of drive-bys!).

Rear Camera: I find these massively less useful than sensors. If you're looking at the screen, then you aren't looking out front. With sensors, it's like you have eyes in the back of your head.

Auto lights and wipers: Always seem to work well for me, and avoids me forgetting to switch lights on in well-lit city streets, and the wipers on my current car have to constantly be adjusted to avoid squealing or restricting visibility.

Park assist: If you mean the auto parking, then I have never tried it, but for sensors please see above.

Not an attempt to systematically destroy your points, I swear! More an attempt to show why car makers couldn't keep up with all our different preferences without significantly upping prices.

David

[RunningInPleasePass]

I take your point David, the reason for my selection is opposite to yours.

Why I selected these:

Auto dipping mirror seems to work and look just fine for me, turn it on and forget.

I do have a garage, and it's easier to park in it with the mirrors folded in. (I must admit I never considered the damage thing, but I suppose if they are folded in there is less chance of them being hit)

The camera is also handy to back out of the garage with the mirrors folded in. (It soon gets dirty though, and you have to clean it now and again)

Why I could live without these:

Automatic lights are okay but they don't know when it's foggy or raining heavily, so do not turn on sometimes when they should.

Auto wipers, if you leave them on and it freezes you will ruin your Wiper Blades, and they never seem to be set just right and you have to keep adjusting the sensitivity.

Park assist is too slow, I can park quicker without it. and I must admit it feels strange to watch the steering wheel swing about on it's own.

As to the parking sensors they are okay, but when you park in a garage, they all seem to sound as soon as you go through the door.

It must be a real pain for car manufacturers to try and please everybody, so perhaps VAG have it right, everything is an option and you can have a bespoke car!

[orangezorki]

I take your point David, the reason for my selection is opposite to yours.

Why I selected these:

Auto dipping mirror seems to work and look just fine for me, turn it on and forget.

I do have a garage, and it's easier to park in it with the mirrors folded in. (I must admit I never considered the damage thing, but I suppose if they are folded in there is less chance of them being hit)

The camera is also handy to back out of the garage with the mirrors folded in. (It soon gets dirty though, and you have to clean it now and again)

Why I could live without these:

Automatic lights are okay but they don't know when it's foggy or raining heavily, so do not turn on sometimes when they should.

Auto wipers, if you leave them on and it freezes you will ruin your wiper blades, and they never seem to be set just right and you have to keep adjusting the sensitivity.

Park assist is too slow, I can park quicker without it. and I must admit it feels strange to watch the steering wheel swing about on it's own.

As to the parking sensors they are okay, but when you park in a garage, they all seem to sound as soon as you go through the door.

It must be a real pain for car manufacturers to try and please everybody, so perhaps VAG have it right, everything is an option and you can have a bespoke car!

All perfectly reasonable, and proof of the point that we both agree with. And as for VAG - try waiting 6 months (quoted that in the past) for delivery. I'm not even sure what I want for lunch tomorrow!

As for the park assist - not even available on the Yaris. Stop showing off!

David.

[cviclark]

Aceshigh post 2008 has hit on the head. 75% of the niggles I have could be done very easily with a firmware update during a service. I have to drive 50 miles to my dealer just to turn off the reversing beep and turn the volume up. Why cant I do it via the hidden Service Screen? why is it even hidden. Where is a simple Mute for the radio or why does it not switch off when reversing? these things should be user configurable. I agree Toyota have more important problems to fix but the fact is Customer Satisfaction and local Specification is in the hands of Marketing. The people getting the complaints do not know the car from a driver/owners point of view. Telling the customer it can not be done ticks the issue resolved box. The driver ends up with a profusion of data and complexity that is meaningless or not needed in the place of useful functions because it looks good on paper. The engineering integrity of the 80,s has gone, its in the hands of bean counters and marketing, but Mercs, VW and many other went the same way years ago and SAAB went to the wall fighting to keep it.

I lost the capping on wing mirrors on both my Prius backing out of the garage. If the Auris had not hadfolding mirrors I would not have bought it.

[hoylakegrumpy]

Having studied this thread thoroughly, there is absolutely no way I will buy the latest Auris hybrid. I have a Prius 2010 which I have been delighted with. I wonder how many other potential sales have been lost?

[Mickfb]

I for one am absolutely pleased with my Aurus tourer.

[Nozuka]

I am still planning to buy one. But i'll wait for the next model year. (Should start in August)

It's always a good idea to wait out the first production changes when a new car gets on the market, you will avoid (most of) the "early adopter" problems.

The next model year will also get the new Toyota Touch 2 System with the TomTom Live Traffic Service.. :)

[cviclark]

I am putting this on this discussion as most Auris owners follow it.

I have an Auris Excel TS HSD with smart entry and noticed some scratches on the inside of the drivers door frame which I suspected was from someone trying to gain entry. My neighbour is ex RAC patrol man and a font of knowledge in such things so I asked his advice. He said all modern cars deadlock so using a rod to gain entry was a waste of time however I was sure I could open the door from the inside when locked. I sat inside he locked it with the handle, I unlocked it no problem. However when he locked it twice it deadlocked, you can actually hear the second lock going home. The same when you use the button twice. I can find nothing in the manual about this and wonder if it can be made to deadlock on one hit.

As an afterthought my neighbour thinks if it someone had tried to "rod it" I would see marks above the door on the outside, and there were none. I will double tap from now on though.

I have found a ref to Double Locking but not sure if its on all cars or even if I should have it. Its a nice feature but I thought all new cars "deadlocked" as my old Lexus did.

My thought is it sould be very easy to link this feature to a long term Battery saver function. If its double locked shut down all non essential features, mind you I do not know what would happen if the Battery went flat when it was double locked.

[PeteB]

... mind you I do not know what would happen if the battery went flat when it was double locked.

The emergency key would unlock the driver's door even if it is deadlocked, although it does need a lot of force. I've heard of several instances of drivers trying this and thinking it's either jammed or they've got the wrong key, simply because the underestimated the amount of force needed to turn the tiny key.

You would then need to open the bonnet and energise the remote Battery terminals to be able to unlock other doors or the boot, or gain access to the boot from inside the car which is no mean feat.

The Gen 1 Prius had a distinct advantage here as there was a physical cable operated release for the boot next to the release for the fuel cap.

[Guest]

... mind you I do not know what would happen if the battery went flat when it was double locked.

The emergency key would unlock the driver's door even if it is deadlocked, although it does need a lot of force. I've heard of several instances of drivers trying this and thinking it's either jammed or they've got the wrong key, simply because the underestimated the amount of force needed to turn the tiny key.

You would then need to open the bonnet and energise the remote Battery terminals to be able to unlock other doors or the boot, or gain access to the boot from inside the car which is no mean feat.

The Gen 1 Prius had a distinct advantage here as there was a physical cable operated release for the boot next to the release for the fuel cap.

[Guest]

Had two occurrences last year when I owned a new Auris excel hybrid with this darn flat Battery fiasco and gained entry very easily using the emergency key no real force needed, I always use deadlock btw

[Guest]

Having studied this thread thoroughly, there is absolutely no way I will buy the latest Auris hybrid. I have a Prius 2010 which I have been delighted with. I wonder how many other potential sales have been lost?

[RunningInPleasePass]

Out of interest are the latest cars out of production fitted with a different Battery?

[cviclark]

In light of all the Battery problems with our cars and the time taken by Toyota to resolve the issue this may be of interest. I recently found that I could deadlock my doors with a double tap. This is mentioned in the manual, but not in the section relating to door locks so I missed it. It would be logical, and a quick easy firmware fix, to link this feature to a Battery save function shutting down all the, non-essential, l ancillary equipment. Maybe the low voltage drain on the Battery would then be reduced to a realistic time. “Sods Law” says the battery would still go flat eventually, so my question was what would happen if it was double locked. Lots of people said the key would still unlock the door but this is the answer from the expert at the official Toyota web page. Of course he may well be wrong.

If the car was in my garage I do not know how a breakdown service would be able to help.

Author: David Crouch

Comment:

Hi Ian

Thanks for your post.

Sorry about the variation on page numbers. To answer your question though, if the vehicle is double locked and the battery goes flat then a brekadown service would need to be called in these circumstances.

See all comments on this post here:

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-auris-touring-sports-new-pictures-and-details#comments

[johalareewi]

Went to family party at the weekend and my OH's nephew has recently bought an Auris Excel hybrid. I asked if he had suffered a flat bettery and he said yes. He had left it for a couple of days and the Battery was flat. The AA had to jump start it. Toyota dealer told him he must have left his keys too near the car. I brought him up to speed on the real problem.

Surely Toyota should be telling their dealer network to report all flat Battery problems on he new Auris otherwise they are not aware of the full extent of the problem?

[Whitewagon]

Had a test drive in an Auris Hybrid Excel just last week. I asked the sales guy about the Battery problem, he stated that he was unaware of this and that they had not had a car with a problem. If he is to be believed then Toyota are clearly not hilighting this problem with their dealers.

[Devon Aygo]

Had a test drive in an Auris Hybrid Excel just last week. I asked the sales guy about the battery problem, he stated that he was unaware of this and that they had not had a car with a problem. If he is to be believed then Toyota are clearly not hilighting this problem with their dealers.

TBH at a dealer level a Sales person is rarely ever going to know about things like this, Toyota have published an advisory that they are aware and investigating the issue but at a dealer the workshop, service department and warranty dept are the people that need to know not a sales person.