CharlieFarlie

Invincibles For £24500 !

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Never really got the hang of negotiating buying and selling cars TBH :( usually end up paying the sticker price pretty much! My last car was an ex-demo and I did manage to get £750 off the price and it did feel like I was drawing blood out the salesman, but I think most likely probably overpaid about £2k in hindsight!

Doing a bit of maths to see what the profit dealer would end up on a Part-Ex .....

I believe dealers have to pay VAT on the difference between what they buy a car in for and what they sell it for. So if a typical car is bought for £7k and sold for £9.5k, the dealer loses £500 straight off to the tax man, so profit is down from £2.5k to £2k.

I guess the dealer would expect to have to service the vehicle, MOT it, Valet it, etc - maybe £300 average at a random guess (I charged Dealers around £200 to fix wheels on cars they got in on Part-ex and many cars in the £10k range would need - and get - wheels sorted)

Then add in Warranty for a year - maybe £100 cost to dealer? So a £2.5k apparent profit would drop to £1,600, without considering they will probably take an offer on the car? Maybe take £9k? In which case profit drops from £1600 to £1200 (£100 less VAT liability).

So call the expected profit on 7k Px £1,200? Seems a reasonable profit to me.

Extrapolating logic to Charlie's T180 .....

Offering only £6k - profit goes up to £2,000 (£800 dealer, £200 VAT Man), no Valeting needed, no wheel fixing needed, etc - just a basic check over and Oil change - call it £100 to be generous, so saving further £200 - profit is now £2,200 on a £6k part-ex which seems a little greedy on the dealers part I would say?

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I'm a lazy buyer and historically have paid windscreen or near windscreen price on ally new Toyotas from the same dealer. On the Invincible I did not get a serious discount but the Sales Manager gave me VERY good trade in value (2k more than I was asking) for my XT-R to compensate and with Mr.T £1000 discount against their low rate finance I was happy.

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Cards on the table..

Went into the dealers with the intention of buying a manual invincible at 24480 as advertised. First choice is an auto but they did not appear to have one in stock and the offer is just on the manual cars.. Consideration of MPG also at the back of my mind..

To cut to the chaff I asked for 7500 for my car and offered to pay the cost to change there and then by bank transfer.

Simple easy no nonsense transaction...

The chap who I was dealing with was a mature Scotsman and we hit it off straight away.. You either gel with the people or you don't..

He of course went off to see the wee man in the cave. Said man came out and dispite my assurance that I do not and will not take finance tried his best to sell me finance.. Fair play that's his job..

I likely would not get finance anyway as I/We at our house have no credit rating.. Haven't had a mortgage for 15 years. No loans or finance agreements whatsoever and we don't even have a credit card..

The guys were amazed at the condition of my old car.. They could not fault it. But still the PX offer was 6K........Now perhaps I want it at both ends but I simply refuse to sell a car that they will retail for over 9500 (Their words) for six grand..

So putting the T180 on PH is a punt... Its worth a try eh...

It looks to me as if 6k is well below auction price so they are not being realistic even before taking into account condition. I hope someone snaps it up from PH.

David

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Charlie, just noticed this on your PH advert.

Acceleration: 0 to 62 in 19.3 seconds

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Charlie, just noticed this on your PH advert.

Acceleration: 0 to 62 in 19.3 seconds

Figures correct David.......selling the Chip Kit separately.

Witheld.......

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Should it not be 9.3 as 19.3 is in the range of tomorrow lol. Even my poor 150 BHP is sub 10 secs to 62.

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The 19.3 to 60 figures are auto filled boxes which I cant alter..... I do understand the VAT or tax point the dealer has to pay on any cars they take in PX and then sell on... But the fact remains if the car is only worth 6K I will just keep on driving it... My thoughts are.. Every car has a monthly price drop. In the trade known as a "book drop" now my old car drops by only a slight amount each month where a nearly new car drops large numbers..

Much as I want to sit in a new car we are entering into winter now and the toll on a car may as well be taken by the old car not a new un....

I just cant accept a boot in the goolies and take 6K even accepting the 4.4 is a good price.. I realise some of you can but not for me.. Many people finance their cars and with these schemes where you have low payments with a balloon at the end or hand the car back it is easy too get sucked in. Difference between a good PX price and a bad one over say 4 years is very little each month.. But I choose to pay on the nail for my cars. So the figures seem very real. It does focus the mind a wee bit !

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A new car is always nice to have, but cannot fault your logic there Charlie.

I wonder if January/February would be a good time to change? Xmas just been so money is tighter to spend on new cars, but the winter is still very present, so demand for 4x4s a few years older is strong?

As an aside, I have a 2013 car with all the goodies, and a 2000 VW with Power Steering and that's about it, but I enjoy driving the VW just as much for some weird reason :)

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A new car is always nice to have, but cannot fault your logic there Charlie.

I wonder if January/February would be a good time to change? Xmas just been so money is tighter to spend on new cars, but the winter is still very present, so demand for 4x4s a few years older is strong?

As an aside, I have a 2013 car with all the goodies, and a 2000 VW with Power Steering and that's about it, but I enjoy driving the VW just as much for some weird reason :)

Not many people will be buying cars as we approach Christmas so dealers should be keen to do a deal over the next few weeks.

Our RAV is 7 years old in January and I feel I should be changing it for a newer one but it has only done 33000 miles and the bodywork is in better condition than many used but newer examples I have seen. I am still expecting to need to change the Battery but that is a poor reason to change the car! With the difference between trade in and retail price being so large I know I will have to spend many thousands to buy a significantly better car. Still I will keep looking and will no doubt know when the right car comes along.

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Not many people will be buying cars as we approach Christmas so dealers should be keen to do a deal over the next few weeks

Oh yes they do, apart from the plate change months, it is one of our busiest times, particularly between xmas and New Year

Most companies have a strict 60 day policy. There might be a "perceived" 2K profit in a car, but you are right, the dealer pays VAT on the profit left in the car. The dealer has to put a large profit in the xar as when it is in stock for two months, the depreciation, bank charges, stocking costs all start to eat in massively. The dealer may then have to over alow on a part exchange to move the car on, realisticly you are looking at about 800-1000 profit, unless of course it flies off the forecourt and does not need much prep and recon, then they are quids in, but that does not happen often

Kingo :thumbsup:

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Not many people will be buying cars as we approach Christmas so dealers should be keen to do a deal over the next few weeks

Oh yes they do, apart from the plate change months, it is one of our busiest times, particularly between xmas and New Year

Most companies have a strict 60 day policy. There might be a "perceived" 2K profit in a car, but you are right, the dealer pays VAT on the profit left in the car. The dealer has to put a large profit in the xar as when it is in stock for two months, the depreciation, bank charges, stocking costs all start to eat in massively. The dealer may then have to over alow on a part exchange to move the car on, realisticly you are looking at about 800-1000 profit, unless of course it flies off the forecourt and does not need much prep and recon, then they are quids in, but that does not happen often

Kingo :thumbsup:

Mr T who we deal with amazed me when he said that majority of his buyers, in particular elderly Yaris buyers don't barter at all. I've always played hard ball when buying anything of high value, Mrs Denshaw is lethal in such situations…...

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So Paul.......what ya saying min......? Elderly Yaris drivers are not a shower of barters......?

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So Paul.......what ya saying min......? Elderly Yaris drivers are not a shower of barters......?

Indeed they aren't….

Legitimate..

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look on internet for certain dealer in st ives auto invincibles 20.5k +vat with met paint

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An Invincible at this price would interest me even though the initial thought of the 2AD engine had originally put me off.

The idea of next to no miles on the clock and a 5 year warranty at this price ticks all the boxes as I believe that the 150 bhp engine can be chipped via Kingo therefore enhancing the MPG as it does on our T180 - please correct me if I am wrong.

In an ideal world I need Lindop's who are my local dealer to do some at this price (Kingo - nudge, nudge, wink, wink :toot: ) as they have been fantastic on servicing (bear in mind that ours does around 20k per year so has been in twice a year for the last 3 years and we have never had a single issue). So it would be good if we could do it all at a one stop shop so to speak.

I recently received an invitation from Lindops to buy a new RAV4 on 0% finance but I don't want finance mainly due to the fact that my wife does 20k miles per year so don't want to get penalised or charged extra for exceeding x miles per year. Also, I don't like the idea of the car not being yours after 3 years unless you 1) stump up £10k or whatever the final payment is or 2) hand the car back or 3) keep the ball rolling and get another new one on finance Great if it doesn't bother you but I like to have something to show for all my hard earned cash which I can call mine and a car on finance doesn't do that for me.

On the theme of sales, I know I am stating the obvious but some dealers carry on as if they CBA and some dealers are falling over themselves to sell you a car. When we bought our T180 at the start of 2011 we visited a number of Mr.T dealerships telling them that we wanted a T180 and had £18k to spend on the right car. Dealers took our details (just to make it look as if they were interested IMO) and never got back to us. I tracked down our T180 myself via the Toyota UK website and travelled to Wolverhampton to get a good deal.

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A new car is always nice to have, but cannot fault your logic there Charlie.

I wonder if January/February would be a good time to change? Xmas just been so money is tighter to spend on new cars, but the winter is still very present, so demand for 4x4s a few years older is strong?

As an aside, I have a 2013 car with all the goodies, and a 2000 VW with Power Steering and that's about it, but I enjoy driving the VW just as much for some weird reason :)

Not many people will be buying cars as we approach Christmas so dealers should be keen to do a deal over the next few weeks.

Our RAV is 7 years old in January and I feel I should be changing it for a newer one but it has only done 33000 miles and the bodywork is in better condition than many used but newer examples I have seen. I am still expecting to need to change the Battery but that is a poor reason to change the car! With the difference between trade in and retail price being so large I know I will have to spend many thousands to buy a significantly better car. Still I will keep looking and will no doubt know when the right car comes along.

shame on you - a RAV4 is for life - not a blinking puppy jist fur Christmas. Behave yersel and awa an stoke yer fire.

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An Invincible at this price would interest me even though the initial thought of the 2AD engine had originally put me off.

The idea of next to no miles on the clock and a 5 year warranty at this price ticks all the boxes as I believe that the 150 bhp engine can be chipped via Kingo therefore enhancing the MPG as it does on our T180 - please correct me if I am wrong.

In an ideal world I need Lindop's who are my local dealer to do some at this price (Kingo - nudge, nudge, wink, wink :toot: ) as they have been fantastic on servicing (bear in mind that ours does around 20k per year so has been in twice a year for the last 3 years and we have never had a single issue). So it would be good if we could do it all at a one stop shop so to speak.

I recently received an invitation from Lindops to buy a new RAV4 on 0% finance but I don't want finance mainly due to the fact that my wife does 20k miles per year so don't want to get penalised or charged extra for exceeding x miles per year. Also, I don't like the idea of the car not being yours after 3 years unless you 1) stump up £10k or whatever the final payment is or 2) hand the car back or 3) keep the ball rolling and get another new one on finance Great if it doesn't bother you but I like to have something to show for all my hard earned cash which I can call mine and a car on finance doesn't do that for me.

On the theme of sales, I know I am stating the obvious but some dealers carry on as if they CBA and some dealers are falling over themselves to sell you a car. When we bought our T180 at the start of 2011 we visited a number of Mr.T dealerships telling them that we wanted a T180 and had £18k to spend on the right car. Dealers took our details (just to make it look as if they were interested IMO) and never got back to us. I tracked down our T180 myself via the Toyota UK website and travelled to Wolverhampton to get a good deal.

So thats what a skin flint means ?

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The idea of next to no miles on the clock and a 5 year warranty at this price ticks all the boxes as I believe that the 150 bhp engine can be chipped via Kingo therefore enhancing the MPG as it does on our T180 - please correct me if I am wrong.

We sure can chip, no problem

If you PM me with your phone number martin, I will get one of the guys to take a look at pricing and see what can be done

Kingo :thumbsup:

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