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Hv Battery Warranty Reduced To 5 Yrs/100K For New Sales


Grumpy Cabbie
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What are Toyota UK doing with the hybrid warranties?

First the gen3 warranty was reduced to 5 years/60,000 miles from 8 years/100,000 on the gen2.

Then they increased it to 5 years/100,000 miles with the HV Battery warranted to 8 years/100,000.

Now they've reduced it again to 5 years/100,000 miles for everything, including the HV Battery.

Why?

What do they know? Myself and other owners thought it weird the warranty was reduced on the gen3 and I'll admit that mine has been far from reliable. Now the HV Battery warranty has been reduced to 5 years OR 100,000 miles, whichever is sooner. So if you have a 6 year old car with 56,000 on it and the HV battery goes south, then you're stuck? Surely not? Have they been stung with warranty claims for inverters and HV batteries? Rumour has it that many taxi owners who stay within the city (ie, not airport runs on the motorways) are having premature HV battery failures under 100,000 miles. There is a Greek taxi driver on the Priuschat forum who had his fail around 90,000 miles.

http://www.toyota.co.uk/insurance-and-warranty/toyota-warranty

But as you will see from the link above. Toyota have reduced the warranty on new cars from April 2014. Doesn't say much about their faith in their product that they see fit to reduce either the mileage (early gen3's) or the time limit (gen3's and now all cars from April 2014).

I know I'm cynical, but when other manufacturers are increasing warranty limits it seems odd that Toyota are now reducing theirs back.

Oh and I am aware one can pay £39 a year to extend your warranty to 10 years inclusive. But as that will be 5 years over the new reduced limit of 5 years, that works out at a saving to them of £195 a car (£39 x 5 years= £195). Why make it so complex? Why not just extend the warranty on all cars and incorporate that £195 into the cost?

Toyota UK move in bizarre and strange ways.

Comments anyone?

My replacement of (expensive) parts list;

2 new steering motors replaced

1 inverter replaced

1 or possibly 2 HV battery ecu's (can't remember if they fixed it the second time or replaced it)

1 EGR valve (at my cost)

Recall items replaced: Brake pump

Car has 80,500 miles on it as of today.

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From an earlier topic, it appears they're re-aligning the hybrid warranties to take account of the hybrid health check. So I suppose to maintain the Battery warranty, the choice is to either continue with Toyota servicing and have the free hhc/extended Battery warranty for up to 11 years, or pay £39 each year for the hhc/battery warranty extension.

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But reducing it from 8 years to 5 years is only gaining Toyota £117.00 for the £39 per year to match what was given before. Seems strange they'd take a backwards step to save such a small amount. They obviously realise a lot of people won't bother paying this £39 (or might not be aware to pay it).

The US gives upto 10 years/150,000 miles warranty in some States and 8 years/100,000 in others. Canada offers the latter. Why has the UK suddenly seen fit to reduce it to 5 years/100,000 miles?

So is it just a homogenisation of UK hybrid warranties to make it easier for customers to understand, even if that means they're getting less than before OR could it be that the newer Li-ion batteries aren't lasting as long in the newer UK hybrids? The Prius+, the PIP and the Yaris HSD are all reported to use the smaller, more dense, but also more volatile Li-ion batteries compared to the older, but more sturdy NiMh batteries used in the older hybrids like the Prius?

It is said the Li-ion batteries just don't last as well in numberous cycling such as hybrid use compared to NiMh. The UK Toyota hybrid range uses a mix of both types of Battery depending on model and now has a reduced warranty. The US&Canada hybrid range mainly uses the older, more reliable NiMh Battery and still offers upto 10 years/150,000 miles to all owners. Their version of the Prius+ is called the Prius V and uses a NiMh Battery pack. But because the NiMh battery is larger, it sits in the boot and thus the car only has 5 seats compared to the 7 in the Prius+.

There has been much confusion of which battery tech the Yaris HSD uses but the following link confirms that it uses the smaller, more compact Li-ion battery placed under the rear seats;

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/futures-hybrid-say-honda-toyota/1199178

What do the forum folk think? Is the reduction to help make it simpler to understand or are Toyota foreseeing problems ahead and trying to mitigate future warranty claims?

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Small update: Just looked at the Toyota Australia range. They don't offer the Yaris HSD or the Prius+, but do offer the Prius V with NiMh Battery and their small hybrid is the Prius C which also uses NiMh. Their warranty is 3years/60,000 miles on the car BUT 8 years/160,000KM or 100,000 miles on the hybrid side.

None of their hybrid range has a car using Li-ion batteries.

https://www.toyota.com.au/owners/warranty

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My Yaris handbook show the Hybrid Traction Battery as being the Nickel-Metal Hydride type. 7.2volt, 6.5Ah x 20 modules, giving a total voltage of 144v.

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I'd heard that before but then there is conflicting information out there such as in that link where the head of Toyota Europe said it's Li-ion. Also, li-ion can fit in smaller places.

This makes interesting reading!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOtaVdBkvOK8

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I am confued!!

If I continue to have my Gen3 serviced with the hybrid health check with my Toyota dealer the Hybrid traction Battery is warranted for 11 years??? Would this apply to a new 2014 Gen 3? Refer comment from Frosty Balls.

What will happen to the hybrid Battery warranty when the Gen 4 Prius arrives in UK? What batteries will that have?

From what I have read so far this will be detrimental to Toyota. Lots of friends always query the reliabilty of the hybrid batteries. They say that it gives them concerns about buying a Toyota hybrid.

As a matter of interest what warranty do Honda give on their hybrid?

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Rumour has it that Honda are pulling some of their hybrids from Europe because they're just not cutting the mustard.

Honda give their Insight a 5 year 90,000 mile warranty. Lexus offer a 5 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Perhaps Toyota are just re-alligning their warranty. Perhaps they have had failures?

But I agree with you Chris. The extended warranties on the hybrids give peace of mind to those out there who are concerned by the technology. There are still lots of people out there who are put off by the batteries and others who still think you have to plug the Prius (non plug in) in. One of my not so near neighbours asked me that the other day.

My suspicions were raised when I bought my gen3 back in 2009. The warranty had been reduced then to 5 years or 60k miles, and it was argued that the technology had been proved with the gen2 and the longer warranty wasn't needed. Sounded reasonable at the time. Since then my car has not been the most reliable. In fact it's been the worst car I've ever owned on that front! Even breaking down more often that a Rover I once owned and that's saying something.

But I just don't believe the realligning reason. Why cut your nose off to spite your face and then charge your customers £39 a year to extend the cover. The extra payments to 10 years is only £195 so why bother? It doesn't smell right to me, especially following the urgent recall to stop failing inverters!

Keep an eye out on the JD Power results over the next couple years. If hybrids and Toyota are still up there, then there's nothing to worry about and I just own a 4.30pm Friday afternoon car. If reliability stats start to slip, then be concerned.

The extra warranty is upto 11 years or could read 10 years inclusive. That's my understanding anyhow.

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I am confued!!

If I continue to have my Gen3 serviced with the hybrid health check with my Toyota dealer the Hybrid traction battery is warranted for 11 years??? Would this apply to a new 2014 Gen 3? Refer comment from Frosty Balls.

What will happen to the hybrid battery warranty when the Gen 4 Prius arrives in UK? What batteries will that have?

From what I have read so far this will be detrimental to Toyota. Lots of friends always query the reliabilty of the hybrid batteries. They say that it gives them concerns about buying a Toyota hybrid.

As a matter of interest what warranty do Honda give on their hybrid?

The hybrid health check that is carried out for free when Toyota dealers service one's hybrid, extends the Battery warranty for 1 year/10,000 miles. So if one continues with the Toyota dealer servicing beyond the five year new car warranty, the warranty extension will be renewed every year and provided a service is carried out just before the vehicle's 10th birthday, the final warranty extension will continue beyond the vehicle's 10th birthday and will effectively have provided cover for 11 years.

One can of course, if having servicing done outside the Toyota dealer network, pay a Toyota dealer to undertake a yearly hybrid health check, and for each hybrid health check, you will receive the 1 year/10,000 mile warranty extension as in the first paragraph.

Presumably Toyota GB will keep the same warranty (ie 5 years/100,000 miles) as now, when the next generation Prius arrives.

The Honda new car warranty is 3 years/90,000 miles. Additionally their hybrid (IMA) warranty was for 8 years/100,000 miles up to the 2010 model year, and was reduced to 5 years/90,000 miles from the 2011 model year.

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I will give credit where it is due. The HHC is good value and one has nothing to worry about regarding your Battery (it doesn't appear to cover the full hybrid system though) upto 10 years and 364 days, if you continue to have your car serviced by Toyota and with NO mileage limitation.

I will continue to use Toyota as my local dealers are great. Perhaps this new warranty is just a way to encourage people to stay within the Toyota dealer network for their servicing? And is beneficial to second hand owners who may have purchased a car serviced outside the network originally?

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There is nothing sinister in this, as mentioned in another post and by Frosty

They are aligning all warranties so it is not confusing to future customers

They want to encourage ALL owners, not just Hybrid owners to have their cars serviced INSIDE the Toyota network, and if you have your Hybrid serviced at a dealer, you get a free HHC and one year warranty, so in effect, have your car serviced at a dealer and get up to ten years Battery warranty

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Thanks guys for your answers to my queries. I am not confused now thanks to your answers. As far as I am concerned anybody who owns a Toyota Hybrid and does not get it serviced by Toyota are asking for problems.

Regarding folk inquiring about my Gen 3 most of them think I have to plug it in and charge it every day. I have owned the Gen 2 and now the Gen 3 both cars are the best I have ever owned. My son has owned Gen 2 & 3 and he is thinks the same.

I have convinced a good mate to buy a Toyota Hybrid. He is well pleased I did so.

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There is nothing sinister in this, as mentioned in another post and by Frosty

They are aligning all warranties so it is not confusing to future customers

They want to encourage ALL owners, not just Hybrid owners to have their cars serviced INSIDE the Toyota network, and if you have your Hybrid serviced at a dealer, you get a free HHC and one year warranty, so in effect, have your car serviced at a dealer and get up to ten years battery warranty

Is that only new cars or would my 2010 Gen 3 have this too?

It has been serviced at the local toyota dealer every year so far. By continuing to do so am i extending the Battery warranty?

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If you have any Hybrid serviced at a Toyota dealer, you get the FREE HHC and one year Battery warranty, up to 10 years old

If you choose not to have it serviced at a Toyota dealer, you can buy the HHC for £39

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The Prius 2nd Gen Hybrid was very easy to understand - it covers ALL the hybrid components for 8 years. Why not make all Hybrid warranties 10 years inclusive of all hybrid components, a nice number and not difficult to understand.

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The Prius 2nd Gen Hybrid was very easy to understand - it covers ALL the hybrid components for 8 years. Why not make all Hybrid warranties 10 years inclusive of all hybrid components, a nice number and not difficult to understand.

Because they'd be replacing inverters left right and center :)

I notice that the HHC only includes the Battery, which whilst expensive is about the same as an inverter £1,500+ vat + fitting, and nothing on a new transmission; think £4k+.

But all cars can have big bills. Mrs Cabbie has an IQ and the auto box is failing at 30k miles. The replacement cost is £4,500! On a 2010 car worth £5,000!

The HHC gives some peace of mind though and it's a selling point as many people are still concerned about the HV Battery failing. But I do still feel it's a backwards step by Toyota to reduce their warranty - again.

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But reducing it from 8 years to 5 years is only gaining Toyota £117.00 for the £39 per year to match what was given before. Seems strange they'd take a backwards step to save such a small amount. They obviously realise a lot of people won't bother paying this £39 (or might not be aware to pay it).

The US gives upto 10 years/150,000 miles warranty in some States and 8 years/100,000 in others. Canada offers the latter. Why has the UK suddenly seen fit to reduce it to 5 years/100,000 miles?

So is it just a homogenisation of UK hybrid warranties to make it easier for customers to understand, even if that means they're getting less than before OR could it be that the newer Li-ion batteries aren't lasting as long in the newer UK hybrids? The Prius+, the PIP and the Yaris HSD are all reported to use the smaller, more dense, but also more volatile Li-ion batteries compared to the older, but more sturdy NiMh batteries used in the older hybrids like the Prius?

It is said the Li-ion batteries just don't last as well in numberous cycling such as hybrid use compared to NiMh. The UK Toyota hybrid range uses a mix of both types of battery depending on model and now has a reduced warranty. The US&Canada hybrid range mainly uses the older, more reliable NiMh battery and still offers upto 10 years/150,000 miles to all owners. Their version of the Prius+ is called the Prius V and uses a NiMh battery pack. But because the NiMh battery is larger, it sits in the boot and thus the car only has 5 seats compared to the 7 in the Prius+.

There has been much confusion of which battery tech the Yaris HSD uses but the following link confirms that it uses the smaller, more compact Li-ion battery placed under the rear seats;

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/futures-hybrid-say-honda-toyota/1199178

What do the forum folk think? Is the reduction to help make it simpler to understand or are Toyota foreseeing problems ahead and trying to mitigate future warranty claims?

Just a the Yaris HSD uses a Ni-mh Battery, this link includes info for emergency services attending accidents involving Hybrids: http://www.toyota-tech.eu/HybridInfo.aspx?Cat=ERG.

This one is just for the Yaris: http://www.toyota-tech.eu/HYBRID/ERG/EN/Yaris_NHP130_erg.pdf

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The Prius 2nd Gen Hybrid was very easy to understand - it covers ALL the hybrid components for 8 years. Why not make all Hybrid warranties 10 years inclusive of all hybrid components, a nice number and not difficult to understand.

Because they'd be replacing inverters left right and center :)

Yes, I don't have a problem with that although it would be far better if Toyota built them properly in the first place.

I don't like Corporate double-speak, claiming that reducing a warranty is to the customers benefit is simply bull.

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The important thing is to have your Hybrid Health Check to extend the warranty BEFORE the original battery's warranty expires.

For some more information please see my post on the Forum about replacing a hybrid Battery.

The one thing that came across loud and clear, is that failure of hybrid batteries is pretty rare. (Ours was the unlucky result of corrosion due to water ingress from a leaking seal!)

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The important thing is to have your Hybrid Health Check to extend the warranty BEFORE the original battery's warranty expires.

For some more information please see my post on the Forum about replacing a hybrid battery.

The one thing that came across loud and clear, is that failure of hybrid batteries is pretty rare. (Ours was the unlucky result of corrosion due to water ingress from a leaking seal!)

They've been including the HHC in services since about January this year (double check with your dealer), so anyone getting an official service on their car after this time should have automatically had the HHC done. It's only people who had their car serviced by Toyota earlier than this OR serviced elsewhere. My car was last serviced by Toyota in October 2013 and to give myself peace of mind I paid the £39 to have mine tested in February this year. When my service is due again this October I'll still be covered by the HHC warranty.

The HHC has been pushed on this forum by myself and also on the Priuschat forum. It's peace of mind that the Battery will last the useful life of the car (upto 11 years or 10 years inclusive). For Toyota it's also a good way to get people to stay in the dealer network.

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To which I can only say, thanks Grumpy and keep up the good work!

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