1Kr-Fe Engine Rattle Noise Under Load

[uamade]

Hello everyone

I am currently an owner of Peugeot 107 which is equipped with Toyota built 1KR-FE engine. The car is very similar to Aygo since it is built in the same factory sharing 90% of the same parts with Peugeot 107.

The problem I am experiencing is some rattling of the engine under load when accelerating the car on 5th gear. This does not happen on neutral, so I can't really test it with opened hood in a stationary position.

In order to illustrate the noise I have recorded an audio using the phone from inside the car when driving. It is a very bad quality, but it actually allows you to hear the noise and probably have some clue about it.

It typically happens on 5th gear when accelerating under load. For example, you are driving on 5th gear and you need to accelerate, you press on pedal, and this sound is produced. If you remove the foot from pedal, the sound is gone immediately.

The sound file can be found here: https://soundcloud.com/user641485394/enginerattlenoise

Starting from 48th second of the audio you start to hear the sound. On 54th second I remove the foot from the pedal and it's gone. On 59th second I press on gaz again and the sound is stronger. The strongest sound can be heard starting from 01:07.

Any idea where this it may come from?

Thanks!

 

[rajivrattna]

Check in the engine compartment, some thing is loose. Open the hood and try to shake every bit to see if some thing is loose, for example the Battery and Battery tray, Radiator mounting etc.

[uamade]

Hello rajivrattna,

Thanks! I will check this and will write back.

[syncview]

i heard the audio but cannot pin point the noise.

it makes this noise only when you're in 5th gear? none when in smaller gears at partial or full throttle?

how does your engine idle, smooth or rough? random "small" missing?

the serpentine belt has an auto tensioner mechanism or belt has to be tightened manually?

What is the condition of the harmonic balancer?

try to put the car in 2nd, put the handbrake ON and slowly let go of the clutch while you rev slightly to simulate 'load' conditions - see if you can make that noise pop up - of course with hood up and someone monitoring the 'movement' areas

[uamade]

syncview,

i heard the audio but cannot pin point the noise.

it makes this noise only when you're in 5th gear? none when in smaller gears at partial or full throttle?

how does your engine idle, smooth or rough? random "small" missing?

the serpentine belt has an auto tensioner mechanism or belt has to be tightened manually?

What is the condition of the harmonic balancer?

try to put the car in 2nd, put the handbrake ON and slowly let go of the clutch while you rev slightly to simulate 'load' conditions - see if you can make that noise pop up - of course with hood up and someone monitoring the 'movement' areas

Thanks for the reply. In fact, the noise is only on 5th gear when accelerating under load. Sometimes on 4th, but very rare. Never heard this on 1st, 2nd or 3rd. The engine is working perfectly on idle, I recently changed sparkplugs and it is working smooth and no misfires.

I think the serpentine belt has automatic tensioner, but I can check it. As for harminc balancer - no idea. I think a faulty one will influence the engine idle and produce vibrations. This is no the case.

I've asked this question on many other forums and people think this is pre-ignition and I shouild try a better fuel. I currently use 95 RON, I will try 98 or 100 and see if it changes anything.

[syncview]

if the serpentine belt has an automatic tensioner, they are known to go bad on various makes and models - causing rattling and other noises.

if it is the engine knocking / pre-ignition that you talk about - did you disconnect the Battery or the ETCS or some fuse recently?

plus if it is the knocking it should do that in 2nd or 3rd gear as well given low enough rpms.

how's your fuel average?

How much has your car run?

[uamade]

syncview,

Thanks for your suggestions. Let me reply inline into each of them.

if the serpentine belt has an automatic tensioner, they are known to go bad on various makes and models - causing rattling and other noises.

I actually was thinking about that, but normally the sound will be still noticible during idle or when I open throttle on neutral.

if it is the engine knocking / pre-ignition that you talk about - did you disconnect the Battery or the ETCS or some fuse recently?

Nope. I bought a car with this sound already and the previous owner told me he does not know what it is.

plus if it is the knocking it should do that in 2nd or 3rd gear as well given low enough rpms.

It actually happens sometimes on third, but the detonation sound is really loud when this happens and is not like the one you heard on the audio link. This usually happening on the same spot when I drive uphil : the transmission shifts to 3rd at low RPM, I press on gas and ... detonation sound (quite loud). I don't know if this is connected to the sound you heard in the audio link.

[syncview]

belt tensioners won't show they're bad in most cases until you load test them, ie load the crankshaft by putting the vehicle in gear and lower the rpm, turn the ac on. etc

btw, it sounds like you need to check the VVT system of your car, occasional loud detonation plus detonation in 5th sounds like your cam phaser pulley gets stuck - a fairly common problem on toyotas with VVT

or it could just be that the OCV needs cleaning / replacement - the OCV has a screen filter that clogs up as well after due time, that screen can be cleaned.

the easiest way to check if the knocking occurs due the VVT system, is to disconnect the plug from the OCV before you start in the morning and drive the car - it will be low on power, you'll have the CEL on and it may consume more fuel but you'll only be doing for a run or two.

do you have a toyota techstream cable or an OBDII scanner? also is your car with a manual or an auto trans?

[uamade]

Thanks dude. You are really helpful 🙂

I wonder, if I disconnect the OCV will this do any harm to engine? Just trying to see if this may do some long lasting damage effect. Overall if there is no damaging effect this sounds like a very good idea to try ...

 

[uamade]

belt tensioners won't show they're bad in most cases until you load test them, ie load the crankshaft by putting the vehicle in gear and lower the rpm, turn the ac on. etc

btw, it sounds like you need to check the VVT system of your car, occasional loud detonation plus detonation in 5th sounds like your cam phaser pulley gets stuck - a fairly common problem on toyotas with VVT

or it could just be that the OCV needs cleaning / replacement - the OCV has a screen filter that clogs up as well after due time, that screen can be cleaned.

the easiest way to check if the knocking occurs due the VVT system, is to disconnect the plug from the OCV before you start in the morning and drive the car - it will be low on power, you'll have the CEL on and it may consume more fuel but you'll only be doing for a run or two.

do you have a toyota techstream cable or an OBDII scanner? also is your car with a manual or an auto trans?

I am planning to buy OBD2 scanner. If you have some recomendations, I will be glad. My car is semi-automatic, and I normally use it in "E" easy mode.

The car has done 100'000 km and the fuel consumption is around 4.5 liters per 100 km in mixed cycle.

[syncview]

also have you checked the spark plugs and other basic items?

[uamade]

also have you checked the spark plugs and other basic items?

Yep, the spark plugs have been recently changed (I was trying to fight this issue) and I even checked that I have no air locks in the cooling system :). The previous owner used 5W-40 oil (Total Quartz 9000) and I decided to follow the manual and use 5W-30 viscosity oil (I am going to change the oil on this weekend).

I wonder if "correct" viscosity will influence in any way VTTI.

[syncview]

Thanks dude. You are really helpful :)

I wonder, if I disconnect the OCV will this do any harm to engine? Just trying to see if this may do some long lasting damage effect. Overall if there is no damaging effect this sounds like a very good idea to try ...

no damage - only a CEL

another test:

warm up the engine and disconnect OCV

with the OCV plug disconnected

race the engine and keep it between 1500-2000 rpms

give +12v to the OCV directly - the engine should stall or run really rough - if it doesn't you got your problem

[syncview]

also have you checked the spark plugs and other basic items?

Yep, the spark plugs have been recently changed (I was trying to fight this issue) and I even checked that I have no air locks in the cooling system :). The previous owner used 5W-40 oil (Total Quartz 9000) and I decided to follow the manual and use 5W-30 viscosity oil (I am going to change the oil on this weekend).

I wonder if "correct" viscosity will influence in any way VTTI.

5w-40 or 5w-30 is good for this engine, no worries there.

ref the scanner - since you're going to buy one and you have atleast two toyotas - I'd recommend you to get the mongoose techstream cable. You'll be able to perform dealership stuff at home.

[uamade]

I just checked if all visible hoses are okay and noticed that one of them is loose. I did a picture of it: (high quality image, therefore it may take a few seconds to download):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17030088/20141008_225839.jpg

As you can see in the middle of the image there is a tube marked with yellow line and it looks like the hose is cut by a metal clamp. This does not look okay. If I touch it, it feels kinda loose.

I wonder can this loose hose cause the sound I have?

[syncview]

the hose pipe under the 'protector' seems to be fine

but still, remove this end and check thoroughly, you don't want this to be leaking.. its probably a breather hose. if this is leaking - which means a vacuum leak - will affect your AFR and performance.

its a rubber hose, if the sound is like 'clunky' it cannot be this

[uamade]

I think it is not an issue since the wikipedia image of my engine has the same "cut-like" ventilation hose:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Toyota_1KR-FE_engine_001.JPG

[syncview]

yes its not a cut

its sort of a protector.. but since you said its loose, just check it to confirm - but the noise you experience cannot from this.

did you perform the tests I mentioned ref the VVT system?

[uamade]

I use the care rarely since this is not my main car.

I will do the VVT check after I confirm that oil change and higher octane petrol does not change situation ...

Pretty much I am afraid to screw up something if I disconnect the OCV :)

[syncview]

Oil change won't

And if it's the vvt system problem, a higher octane fuel may mask the problem until it gets worse

[syncview]

Search Google and you'll see many people do that and is mentioned in the service manual too.

[u-mute]

Any news on this item? I am facing the same problem and read many different causes, like serpentine belt, oil pump, clutch, piston slap etc. would be interested to hear whether you identified what causes the rattling.

[uamade]

Still makes noise. Did not find the reason of it. Tried changing the oil & filter (by moving to 5W-30 instead of 5W-40), spark plugs, fuel type, flushed coolant, still the same fu*g sound.

[51m0n53n]

Sorry, to bring an old topic up. However, does it happen at around 110 km/t (65-68 mph) ? 

Mine does, it does sound rough. 

[Manny Katty]

On 10/28/2017 at 10:22 PM, 51m0n53n said:

Sorry, to bring an old topic up. However, does it happen at around 110 km/t (65-68 mph) ? 

Mine does, it does sound rough. 

Bringin up this old post again.  But I have exactly the same issue.  Anyone resolved it?