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Pre Or Post 2009 Model


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Hi - The taxi driver was really pleased to tell me all about his Avensis when I gushed at how quiet & smooth the ride was. He told me to go for the V-matic model (2009 onward). That will be quite a stretch for me financially - I could manage a pre-2009 model easier. Is there that much difference between them? I am looking for comfort in the car - I want to be taking my elderly mother on some long weekends etc. I'd appreciate any advice/opinions.




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Hello Kate - welcome over to Toyota Owners Club from the Honest John forum.

Have a look at the reviews -

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/avensis-2003/

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/avensis-2009/

My view is that if it is a struggle financially to go for a post 2009 model, I'd err on the side of caution and search for a well-cared for pre 2009.

I'm sure others will be able to provide some advice on the differences between the two.

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If you want a hatchback then you have to buy a 2003-2008 model (known as a T25). There was a facelift mid-2006.

If you want a saloon or estate then either the T25 or it's 2009> replacement (T27) offer those.

If you want a petrol then I would suggest that the best vfm would be to get a run-out (late 07 or an 08) model 1.8 in TR trim - this gets you a lot of toys but not leather or powered seats. You won't get the same level of toys for the same money on an early T27.

The earlier T25 1.8 VVTis could have an issue with oil consumption (supposedly fixed mid-2005) so I would suggest not looking at pre-facelift cars.

hth, any other questions fire away :)

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Is there that much difference between them? I am looking for comfort in the car

They're both really comfy. I've had two old shape and two new shape ones over the last 6 years or so. The new model feels taughter and, well, newer. The 1.8 valvematic engine in the new model feels much more powerful than the 1.8 vvti fitted to the old model. If you like autos the new shape 1.8 valvematic with the cvt auto is a great drive and can give good mpg, where the traditional auto in the old shape feels underpowered and doesn't give great mpg.
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I was thrilled to see your helpful replies - thank you! I've just emerged from doing my reading up now I've had your useful pointers.

I can't shake off that initial falling in love for the quietness of the Valvematic. (The taxi driver's was also an automatic - it appeared to simply silently glide. But I think I'd prefer a manual after reading UserReview at HonestJohn.)

However, as I have big expenses this year, I'm resigned to going for the 07 or 08 petrol model now as I need to replace my current car asap. The hatch will be easier anyway - for lifting in my mother's wheelchair.

Then, I could consider the Valvematic (tourer maybe) (economical petrol) next year ..... or is this not good logic?

Is there a calculation which will give me an idea of how much depreciation there would be if I sold the VVTi after one year? I am ok without satnav/toys, so probably be a Colour or similar.

Also, because I am so nervous buying a car, I've only been looking on Toyota.co.uk for a used Avensis. Are their prices non-negotiable? Any other suggestions?

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Think most dealers will negotiate - of course negotiation can mean a reduction in price, or inclusion of extras or a service, reduced price GAP insurance, etc.

Thing to bear in mind is to be realistic if you're looking for a price reduction.

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Is there a calculation which will give me an idea of how much depreciation there would be if I sold the VVTi after one year?

The price you pay the dealer is the showroom price. This is usually about a grand more than the price you would be offered for the same car if you went to trade it in. So if you traded that car in after a year then you'll lose maybe a quarter if it's value in depreciation, plus the dealer's grand mark up. ie if you buy a car from a dealer at 6 grand you'll possibly get about 3500 back after a year. Obviously there's more to it, but that's the gist.

Parkers.co.uk have a car valuations section, it's not gospel but it gives you an idea. Have a look at the showroom value for whatever car you fancy, then have a look at the same car a year older, but at it's trade in value this time.

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The T25 model was made as saloon, hatchback & estate (Tourer). The hatch has a lip to lift a wheelchair over, the estate doesn't so I would suggest checking both out to see if you can cope with a lip. The T27 was/is only made as a saloon & estate.

Changing twice will cost you more overall ... but if you can't afford to do it once because of other financial commitments what else can you do. Of course you might also find that you are perfectly happy with what you bought & not be bothered about changing again for a few years (in which case at that point should you so wish you could get a later & probably better equipped for the money T27 than you could now) ...

CAP have a cost calculator http://www.cap.co.uk/car-valuation

The prices on Toyota.co.uk are the prices put on that by the dealer holding the car - they will negotiate from it (they will probably try to give youaccessories or Gap insurance rather than straight cash but you can hold out for a discount). If you buy a genuine Toyota Approved use car you should get a year's warranty (a 2007/8/9 will be out of originak manufacturer's warranty) & Toyota's used & extended warranties are basically the best in the business. Of course you are likely to pay more for this than buying privately or from a non-franchise dealer.

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I really do appreciate all the comments. Umm - sooo embarrassed :bag: - I didn't realise the VVTi had an estate. I ran out this morning and bought a Parkers Car Price Guide - I know my way around a book :bookworm: better than scrolling on the computer. An estate would indeed be much easier for loading - thanks for bringing that nearer the top of the tick list.

Re: VVTi -v- Valvematic. (1) I know this is kind of subjective, but there is mention of the VVTi having motorway wind & road noise on the internet. My sister's Mondeo had this & I wouldn't like a noisy car like that for a long journey. (2) Also the clutch - are they a weakness on the VVTi?

Thank you so!

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They are all going to have some measure of wind & road noise. Different tyres can make a difference & current tyre tests & labelling include noise. Also, the speed at which you drive will make a difference.

I imagine all being better than a Yaris.

I had a diesel T25 Tourer (a 57 plate facelift) & never found it a problem including journeys of several hundred miles. I do tend to have music playing though.

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Back to the original question

My answer would be pre.

Too many problems after 2006 by looks of things

Thinking maybe back to German brand for me next but no plans to change just now as my old 53 plate low mileage is plodding on cheaply

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Back to the original question

My answer would be pre.

Too many problems after 2006 by looks of things

whereas I would say don't buy a 1.8VVTi made before mid-2005 (unless it has had the remedial work) due to oil-burning issue & personally I would say get a facelift (so mid-2006>).

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Hi Kate,

For what its worth I have a 05regd 1.8vvti auto.,now done 98,000,never used any oil.Extremely comfortable,smooth car,would highly recommend.If I have another Avensis I would probably go for the facelifted,08 regd,TR auto.

Cheers...Phil.

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Mucho thanks to everyone seeing me through this - I'm taking on all your comments.

I decided to take a closer look at ease of access to the boot on the VVTi hatch and Valvematic saloon & tourer. (Still trying to keep my head about not extending my finances if possible.)

The salesgirl at my local Toyota Dealers opened the door of a bog standard looking dark blue 59 plate Avensis 35k miles (for more - £9.5k - than I am looking for) & made me sit in it. Suddenly I thought I was in a MASERATI! This car keeps transporting me somewhere else!

Now I know what is meant by extras&toys. Amazingly comfortable, sable leather seats with fantastic electrical buttons that operate a multitude of silent adjustments that would be perfect for my mother's bad back.

That seat would be absolutely perfect for my mum. Getting that seat in my new Avensis would be such a cherry on the top for this purchase. (The rest of the car can be the more practical fabric seats - big dog walker.)

Normally I leave a dealers as fast as I can to think things through because I don't want any sales pressure. But I had to sit & have numerous cups of their hot chocolate to consider the likelihood of owning - in my eyes - a Maserati.

It was called a T4. The sales manager confused me with also mentioning it was a T-Spirit - & confused me more saying it had the qualities of the Icon & Excel. Phew. :dontgetit: I haven't had time to cross reference & digest this yet.

I have to go away for a few days - will look forward to see if I have any comments when I get back!

PS The boot of this T4 Saloon doesn't really give you a good swing at lifting in a folded wheelchair - it might be ok ..... unless I'm tired & my aim isn't so good - the mouth of it will get battered!

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Between May 2009 and August 2011, think the trim levels went like this (in ascending order of equipment):

T2

TR

T4

T-Spirit

Trim levels of the current range are:

Active

Icon

Icon Business Edition

Excel

Presumably what the sales manager meant was that the T-Spirit is somewhere between the Icon and Excel of the current range in terms of equipment.

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I decided to take a closer look at ease of access to the boot on the VVTi hatch and Valvematic saloon & tourer. (Still trying to keep my head about not extending my finances if possible.)

The salesgirl at my local Toyota Dealers opened the door of a bog standard looking dark blue 59 plate Avensis 35k miles (for more - £9.5k

Now I know what is meant by extras&toys. Amazingly comfortable, sable leather seats with fantastic electrical buttons that operate a multitude of silent adjustments that would be perfect for my mother's bad back.

(The rest of the car can be the more practical fabric seats - big dog walker.)

The older shape was available with electric seats too.

I wouldn't like to put a wheelchair into my saloon regularly (and I'm quite big and capable). I'd go with an old shape hatch or a new shape tourer. Both would be better for a dog too, assuming you put the dog in the boot.

£9.5k sounds expensive for a 59 plate, although I note it's a high spec and low miles.

Edit...There are similar on auto trader for about £6 or £7k

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Between May 2009 and August 2011, think the trim levels went like this (in ascending order of equipment):

T2

TR

T4

T-Spirit

Trim levels of the current range are:

Active

Icon

Icon Business Edition

Excel

Presumably what the sales manager meant was that the T-Spirit is somewhere between the Icon and Excel of the current range in terms of equipment.

The trim level change was pretty much a straight name swap rather than an actual big change in equipment (the most notable change there was the introduction of DAB radios as standard in Icon, Icon Plus & Excel). I have said for years that the best value model was at TR/Icon level - this doesn't normally get you leather seats but there are quite a few out there with 1/2 leather as an option & seat adjustment is manual. (btw not all TRs have nav. as standard - there was a TR NAV spec. for at least part of that time).

As someone with a T-Spirit & a 94 year old mother I can tell you that the only thing that I would miss dropping down to a TR/Icon would be the electric folding mirrors (I live in a narrow street where mirrors being smashed by passing traffic is not uncommon) but even that would hardly be a disastrous loss. I don't think that T4s have that anyway.

It sounds like an estate (Tourer) would be the best choice for you - the Avensis Tourer has a very practical boot (more hidden storage under the floor too). One thing to look out for on the>2009 T25 model is that the mounting lugs for the load cover are prone to breakage & these small parts are not available separately which can make replacement expensive - you need a new cover @£200 a pop rather than a few £s for plastic lugs :O. The T27 (so far) seems better in that regard.

If that was Vantage at Erdington that you visited then my car came from there & their finance manager (not his job title but his real job function) Rohit Patel was very good at actually getting things done that the salesman had promised but hadn't delivered on ...

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