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D4D, D-Cat And D Engines What Is The Difference

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Forgive the ignorance but I am trying to decide on which engine for a new Rav4. Looking at the purchase options it shows the following choices:-

2.0 D 4 D, 2.2 D and 2.2 D-cat.

I have trawled the forums and I am becoming more confused by the minute. My understanding is that 2.2 D-Cats have an EGR valve that burns extra fuel, hence the number of topics re heavy consumption on 2.2. That said does the 2.2 D not have a Cat then? If not what, if anything is it replaced with? Would I be right in thinking that the non Cat 2.2 D is a better bet if you want the 2.2 engine (we are talking manual gearboxes here, not auto).

For those technically minded on the forums can you please, in laymans terms, assist me with the differences between the three apparent engines types?

I did ask a Toyota salesman but saw his eyes glaze over not a good sign when I am willing to part with my hard earned cash.

Thank you for your time.

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They are all D4Ds. & it gets worse :P - I don't know about the RAV but there were also a very small no. of 2.0 D-CAT Avensis sold in the UK (& more in Europe).

http://toyota-club.net/files/2004/04-04-10_rem_dpnr.htm

The EGR valve doesn't burn fuel - it's a 5th injector that squirts fuel into the cat/dpf.

Other than D-CATs iirc UK D4Ds don't have DPFs until ~2009.

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Ok thanks.

Your 2.2 T -Spirit is that D-Cat? Regardless what do get mpg and on what sort of journeys?

I have previously owned a 2.2 tourer which I am sure was a D-Cat. I outed it soon after buying as the mpg was so awful. I was also running a petrol 1.8 Vectra that beat it hands down on a run.

I am set on a Rav just don't want to get burnt again on the mpg with a 2.2

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No, this T27 Avensi 2.2 isn't a D-CAT but it does have a DPF.

My previous T25 Avensis 2.2 did not have a DPF & either because of that or possibly being lighter was a bit (maybe ~5-7.5%) more economical.

In mixed motoring I am currently getting ~40mpg, this will go up a few mpg in the summer. On motorway work (& I don't mean a constant 56mph ;) ) I can get into the middle 50s.

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Ok, so a fair assumption then is that the Rav 2.2 D is a non Cat (but will have a DPF as all modern diesels do), and therefore as you experience better MPG ? My mileage is 95% open road and not short distances so should suit nicely.

From what I read I am going to steer clear of D Cat anything as it seems to be the issue. My other recent post was relating to which diesel engine is best for the Rav. I accept there is the personal choice bit but my thoughts were that the 2.0 litre was the more economical and probably better choice due to my experience with my previous 2.2. That said from what I am hearing here the 2.2 non Cat may be back in the running and would give me more pull and make AWD more of an option.

Would value your thoughts

Thanks

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Hi - heres my 2 penneth - i have 2013 2.2icon D-4D 6 speed manual....I used to have 2.0 litre petrol 5 speed 2006 xt3 manual.. both different cars in my experience ; the older one super smooth petrol ; give or take 40 mph locally or on a run...smaller , slightly higher , squatter car and more stylish in my opinion....but slightly underpowered on hills or towing......Newer car very roomy longer and much more powerful than t'other with cruise control and a few more goodies. again around 40 mpg.. I feel it has lost the looks and my preferred style of the older models ... but it is much more refined alround and like most other cars of its ilk.....If I could I would have one of the 3 door they used to produce brought up to date - i would think they'd sell in their droves!!!!!

I have no experience of these in auto but manually as a near new car goes I am very happy........Regards fromPaul..

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Ok, so a fair assumption then is that the Rav 2.2 D is a non Cat (but will have a DPF as all modern diesels do), and therefore as you experience better MPG ? My mileage is 95% open road and not short distances so should suit nicely.

From what I read I am going to steer clear of D Cat anything as it seems to be the issue. My other recent post was relating to which diesel engine is best for the Rav. I accept there is the personal choice bit but my thoughts were that the 2.0 litre was the more economical and probably better choice due to my experience with my previous 2.2. That said from what I am hearing here the 2.2 non Cat may be back in the running and would give me more pull and make AWD more of an option.

Would value your thoughts

Thanks

Looking at toyota.co.uk RAV4 pages it seems that for the UK they are now only doing the 2.2 in the RAV4 in D-CAT form (it will be emissions & therefore tax related).

Accoring to those pages the 2.0D is quite a bit down on power (91 v 147bhp) but torque is similar (310lb/ft v 340). That bhp seems very low (wonder if it's a typo) - the 2.0D in an Avensis delivers 124bhp

The 2.0D also offers you the option of a 2WD version if you don't need 4WD & better economy with that (also, of course, cheaper to buy).

Toyota just introduced a new more efficient, more powerful (140bhp) 2.0 diesel (BMW derived design) into the Avensis at the Geneva show - I imagine that will make it's way into the RAV too but maybe not soon enough for you ...

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Thanks for your replies, interesting stuff. I have to say the knowledge on the forum is exceptional. When last in the showroom I asked the salesman about the 2.0 litre and he stated that it has a136BHP output. I believe that to be wrong and have never seen that quoted in any sales blurb! Worries me somewhat. . .

I have tried looking at the brochures on line and am slowing going blind trying to compare data. . . . .think I all just ring Toyota and ask the ethnically question. Will post he answer.

Thanks again for your time, safe driving.

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think that I have worked it out - they have quoted the 2.0D power in kW but the 2.2 in bhp! :giljotiini:

So the 2.0D does produce 124bhp in the RA4 too.

I can see why you are confused - the RAV4 brochure makes no mention of D-CAT & the exhaust emission figures quoted in it for the 2.2 both manual & auto look very suspect (you would expect them to be very similar to the Avensis where the manual comes with a non-D-CAT & the autos is a D-CAT), another error perhaps?

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Ok, just got off the phone from Toyota having raised the following question:-

Do Toyota make a 2.2 D-4D engine and a 2.2 D Cat engine as shown in the brochure? If so what is the difference?

The answer is that the brochure is wrong and that he D-Cat engine has been dropped. All engines are now D-4D only.

Any thoughts?

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I think that they may have got it the wrong way round & that for the RAV4 all 2.2 engines are now D-CAT but you could try asking PartsKing or Devon Aygo as they both work for different Toyota dealers but on the maintenance side.

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Have spoken to my local dealer who is making enquiries with Toyota. The latest is that the web brochure is wrong/out of date and the published/hard copy is correct.

Therefore the D-Cat engine is no longer an option.

Watch his space !

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imo it would be unusual for them to drop the cleaner (but more expensive to make) version as that puts up road & bik tax which is a negative for a buyer - mind you that whole family of engines looks to be on the chopping block as the BMW-derived designs come on stream.

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The dealer came back to me having made enquires with Toyota and stated that the 2.2 Auto is a D- Cat the remainder are D-4D's. The on line brochure is out of date but hard copies are in date. . . .Scott that fits with your thoughts earlier.

You mentioned the new BMW engine (140) am I right in thinking that is bespoke to Toyota. I can't place a current BMW that the engine is from other than possibly the 318 etc. Might be worth a look/ wait, there again it could have teething troubles and be a pain in the initial few months.

The Verso went across to a 1.6 BMW (I think) and press reports I read slated it, who knows, take it with a pinch of salt.

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Using the BMW 1.6 diesel in the Verso saves Toyota having to develop their own 1.6 diesel engine for a model that is produced for Europe. As far as I'm aware the same engine has been used in the Mini and 1-series (although BMW have since brought out a new engine range for the Mini). The 2 litre probably originated in the 3-series.

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"You mentioned the new BMW engine (140) am I right in thinking that is bespoke to Toyota. " Apparently it's not a straight lift, Toyota have made a few changes to suit their needs.

The 1AD & 2AD family are showing their age against newer rivals but as Frosty says it probably saved Toyota a lot of money rather than developing their own at a time when there are signs of governments & people turning against diesel (due to particulates etc.).

I'm not sure that the 2.0 will have come from a 3-series though - that's a rwd car & Toyota's usage will be largely fwd with the engine transverse.

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The X3 is based on the 3-series which is four wheel drive and shares engines with the 3. From what I've read the same 2 litre diesel is used in the 3-series and the 2-series Active Tourer - BMW's front wheel drive MPV.

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It's a longitudinal installation in an X3 (as in a 3 series). according to wikipedia (I know ;) ) whilst the X3 shared a 143bhp diesel engine version of the N47 with the Mini Cooper they didn't with the 3 series. Similarly the X3 shared a 177/184bhp diesel engine version of the N47 with the 320D but not Mini.

N47 is being replaced by B47, hopefully what Toyota are getting is based on the B47 rather than the older N47.

the 2.0 td in the 2 series generates 148bhp as a 218 or 184bhp as a 220 - it would be nice if we got a similarly more powerful version as an option.

Especially for the Avensis which now as a renamed Sports Tourer at best will do 0-62 in ~9.8s, down from 9.2 in the 150bhp 2.2 & 124mph instead of 131 ... :yawn: .

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I'll try and explain all the differences:

Firstly the names and their meanings:

D4D is Toyota's name for engines using common rail direct injection, 4 cylinders and diesel fuel

DPF is a diesel particulate filter

D-Cat is Toyota's name for a version of a DPF that also includes NOx reduction called a DPNR this uses an additional 5th injector to add fuel into the filter to burn off diesel particulates.

Now the cars:

2000-2005 Rav4.2 Used

2.0 D4D 116bhp called the 1CD-FTV

2005-2009 Rav4.3 Used either:

2.2 D4D 136bhp called the 2AD-FTV

2.2 D4D D-Cat 177bhp called the 2AD-FHV

2009-2010 Rav4.3 Model change used either

2.2 D4D 148bhp Manual transmission called 2AD-FTV

2.2 D4D D-Cat 148bhp Auto transmission called 2AD-FHV

2010-2013 RAV4.3 Final model

2.2 D4D DPF 148bhp Manual transmission called 2AD-FTV

2.2 D4D D-Cat 148bhp Auto tranmission called 2AD-FHV

2013 > Rav4.4 Current model

2.0 D4D D-Cat 124bhp 2wd or 4wd Manual transmission called 1AD-FTV

2.2 D4D D-cat 148bhp Manual transmission called 2AD-FTV

2.2 D4D D-Cat 148bhp Auto tranmission called 2AD-FHV

On the current Rav4 Toyota have stopped using the D-cat name as all the engines use this technology so there is no need to differentiate.

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Thanks for information.

Am I correct in thinking that the D-Cat system is the cause of the excessive fuel used in these cars. As previously posted I had a 2.2 D-Cat Avensis ( 2008/9) and the mpg was bad. If all Ravs are using the D-Cat system am I likely to expect the same poor mpg or has the engine now overcome this problem.

I am just finding this a tad confusing and I am off to the dealers at the weekend, I just need to get this straight in my head.

Thanks

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I suspect that there are some typos in Lee's post in respect of the RAV series numbers, but ...

When I bought my previous RAV, a 2009 4.3 SR180 (manual, 177bhp), it came with the 2AD-FHV D-CAT engine and returned 37mpg over 55,000 miles. And it had D-CAT emblazoned on the back.

My current RAV, a 2013 4.4 Icon (auto, 148bhp) also has the 2AD-FHV D-CAT engine and so far has returned 39mpg over 23,000 miles. And it doesn't say D-CAT or D4D anywhere obvious! But at the time, the manual version came with the 2AD-FTV D4D engine (according to the brochure at least).

I believe, or believed, that the FHV was the one with the 5th injector.

From my point of view, fuel economy is fine for a reasonable sized 4WD vehicle - in the real world you get about 90% of the manufacturers figure ...

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I suspect that there are some typos in Lee's post in respect of the RAV series numbers, but ...

Your right, now corrected.

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Ok thanks to all for the help. Perhaps my expectations are to high, I just expect better mpg from a modern diesel. I appreciate that manufacturers figures are ideal however I currently have a 2.0 TDCI S Max (140) that delivers mid forties on mixed driving and has gone as high as 55 on a run with high quality fuel. That's at 70-75 mph and family style acceleration etc.

I have a test drive booked for Saturday and hopefully a two day trip in the pipe with a Rav diesel courtesy of the dealer.

Can that fifth injector skew the mpg that much? Or is it my expectations that are skewed?

Once again I appreciate your time and thoughts.

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A RAV4 isn't light, particularly aerodynamic & if you are looking at a 2.2 is 4WD (on demand).

& the 1AD/2AD series are 10 years old.

On a T25 Avensis the difference in mpg between a 150bhp non-DPF FTV & the 180bhp D-CAT FHV was a good 10% (& maybe more).

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I doubt that the fifth injector makes that much difference to fuel economy - sure it burns more fuel by the very nature of it but it's there to reduce emissions overall. Historically, Toyota have used the D-CAT system on their higher power offerings and conventional automatics and these inevitably use more fuel than their lower powered, manual cousins. But as other have said, it is what it is and the 2AD design isn't the latest, most fuel efficient, engine around.

If you are seriously looking for a fuel efficient RAV4, and something comparable to a 2.0TDCI S- Max, you might want to consider the 2.0 D-4D 2wd manual. Toyota's quoted combined figure is 57.6mpg so, applying the 90% rule, you might reasonably expect something approaching 50mpg as an average which seems a closer fit to your expectations. At the end of the day it's your choice ...

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