How long is it supposed to take to start a diesel?

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Good Evening All,

Curious since we've never owned diesel before, especially recent with these cold mornings, we've noticed it takes a while for the engine to start, we have the push start button, so we normally give it like a minute on the orange light, and then say 30 seconds on the green before starting it by pushing the button, it chug chug chugs for like 3-4 seconds may be less before she fires up, previously it felt like instant. After that throughout the day fires up as normal.

 

Is this normal guys or could there be more to it? Just to add the Battery is a month old, so i doubt it could an explanation!

 

I look forward to any thoughts. Thank you All.

 

Sammy

[crofter]

Hello Sammy, this sounds like one of the cylinder pre heaters has stopped working. I have come across this in the past where the engine coughs and splutters on start up and then evens out. My method of testing was to remove the units from the engine and connect a thickish wire to the top of the heater then onto either one of the terminals on the Battery then clip another cable onto the threaded part which then goes to the other Battery terminal. A working heater will glow red hot very quickly so fingers well away from it when testing as well as anything else flammable                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this is of help.

Del                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

[Heidfirst]

Sam, from my experience of the 2.2 (I know you have a 2.0 but they are related designs) I get in & press the button (to allow glow plugs to warm). Then reach for seatbelt - by the time that I have fastened my seatbelt the glowplug light will be out & I depress the clutch & press the button again to start. At the moment with temps ~0C my car is slightly slower to start (it doesn't help that it can sit for days without use) than in the summer but it only turns over 3-4 times before bursting into life. Probably around 3-4 seconds for the whole process from sitting down.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

32 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

Sam, from my experience of the 2.2 (I know you have a 2.0 but they are related designs) I get in & press the button (to allow glow plugs to warm). Then reach for seatbelt - by the time that I have fastened my seatbelt the glowplug light will be out & I depress the clutch & press the button again to start. At the moment with temps ~0C my car is slightly slower to start (it doesn't help that it can sit for days without use) than in the summer but it only turns over 3-4 times before bursting into life. Probably around 3-4 seconds for the whole process from sitting down.

Thanks Heidfirst, please run it by me again, so when i get in the car, i press the start button once...my steering wheel comes down, then once more...all my lights come on...at this point the light is orange on my start button...and it stays orange... It never changes...is this normal??? The only time the light goes green is when i press my clutch all the way down till it hits a switch or something....and then i start it up.

I always assumed with any diesel, when a light starts off orange, it should go green...or off depending on the manufacturer...before its safe to fire her up!

Now im totally confused!

[alan333]

When you press the start button the first time (without pressing the clutch), think of it like turning the key to the first click, ie it only puts on the radio etc.  When you press it a second time (still without pressing the clutch), think of it like turning the key to the second click, ie all the dash lights come on, including the glow plug light.  This is when the glow plugs start to heat up.  The start button light won't be green at this point, since you haven't fulfilled the criteria for the engine to start, ie you haven't pressed the clutch.  The glow plug light should go out after a few seconds, telling you that it's 'ready', and when you press the clutch the start button will turn green, allowing you to start the car.  It should start fairly quickly and without serious rough running, ie it should start 'clean'.

Although the glow plug light should go out after a few seconds, the glow plugs will continue to heat for a period (usually about a minute) even if you haven't started the engine, and they also continue to heat the engine for a few seconds after the engine has started (called 'afterglow').

If yours isn't starting 'clean' it would suggest that one (or more) of your glow plugs isn't working.

Depending on how competent you are under the bonnet there's a fairly easy way to test them.  Take the electric lead off the top of the glow plug.  Take a jump lead or similar and connect it to the poz Battery terminal.  Spark the other end of the jump lead against the tip of the glow plug.  If you get a big juicy spark then the plug is good, if you get a weak woosy spark or no spark at all then the plug is goosed.  If you can't get the end of your jump lead in to the glow plug area then hold something like a long screwdriver against the glow plug connection (thus extending the power feed to your screwdriver shaft) and spark your jump lead against the screwdriver shaft.  Sometimes all the glow plugs connections are connected by a single large power bar, if yours has this then you need to remove it first.  And if you're not competent under the bonnet then don't try any of this at all, since sparks under the bonnet can cause a fire.

Assuming you find a goosed glow plug then they swap out like spark plugs, but they're usually tight - very tight.  Use a decent quality well fitting long reach hex socket (not a multi point socket) on a good tommy bar, and do it with a hot engine (and beware not to scald yourself).  I usually replace all four while I'm in there, since they're all probably the same age and if one has gone the others probably aren't far behind.

Alternatively your local mechanic should be able to fit a new set for about £100.

Hope this helps :)

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

10 hours ago, alan333 said:

When you press the start button the first time (without pressing the clutch), think of it like turning the key to the first click, ie it only puts on the radio etc.  When you press it a second time (still without pressing the clutch), think of it like turning the key to the second click, ie all the dash lights come on, including the glow plug light.  This is when the glow plugs start to heat up.  The start button light won't be green at this point, since you haven't fulfilled the criteria for the engine to start, ie you haven't pressed the clutch.  The glow plug light should go out after a few seconds, telling you that it's 'ready', and when you press the clutch the start button will turn green, allowing you to start the car.  It should start fairly quickly and without serious rough running, ie it should start 'clean'.

Although the glow plug light should go out after a few seconds, the glow plugs will continue to heat for a period (usually about a minute) even if you haven't started the engine, and they also continue to heat the engine for a few seconds after the engine has started (called 'afterglow').

If yours isn't starting 'clean' it would suggest that one (or more) of your glow plugs isn't working.

Depending on how competent you are under the bonnet there's a fairly easy way to test them.  Take the electric lead off the top of the glow plug.  Take a jump lead or similar and connect it to the poz battery terminal.  Spark the other end of the jump lead against the tip of the glow plug.  If you get a big juicy spark then the plug is good, if you get a weak woosy spark or no spark at all then the plug is goosed.  If you can't get the end of your jump lead in to the glow plug area then hold something like a long screwdriver against the glow plug connection (thus extending the power feed to your screwdriver shaft) and spark your jump lead against the screwdriver shaft.  Sometimes all the glow plugs connections are connected by a single large power bar, if yours has this then you need to remove it first.  And if you're not competent under the bonnet then don't try any of this at all, since sparks under the bonnet can cause a fire.

Assuming you find a goosed glow plug then they swap out like spark plugs, but they're usually tight - very tight.  Use a decent quality well fitting long reach hex socket (not a multi point socket) on a good tommy bar, and do it with a hot engine (and beware not to scald yourself).  I usually replace all four while I'm in there, since they're all probably the same age and if one has gone the others probably aren't far behind.

Alternatively your local mechanic should be able to fit a new set for about £100.

Hope this helps :)

 

Alan333...

I simply cannot thank you enough for all your input, you went into so much detail, it will always be much appreciated.

I had a feeling that it was the glow plugs, as my orange light simply wont go out, until I press the clutch in and hit the start button, so it can only be the plugs that aren't doing what they're supposed to do, we've had the car a month and I am certain that the orange light used to go out when we first got it, the vehicle's done 63k and I assume that they haven't been changed before, so they must be at the end of their life sadly.

I have never changed glow plugs before and I will be sure to follow your advice.

I am on the look out for new plugs now, any suggestions on brand or should I but them from Toyota?

 

 

[Heidfirst]

24 minutes ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

I had a feeling that it was the glow plugs, as my orange light simply wont go out, until I press the clutch in and hit the start button,

The light not changing to green until you depress the clutch is the expected behaviour.

If it does turn out that you have an issue with the glow plugs I would ask the trader that you bought the car from to fix it/them under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

[Druid Boy]

Now I may have missed something here but you guys seem to be talking about two different lights:  one on the starter button and the other on the dash (the glow plug light).  From the original post it sounds as though you give the car 90 seconds before trying to start it.  To me that suggests that your glow plugs have stopped glowing hence your slow start.

Sam, are you watching for the glow plug light on the dash board going out or the orange light on the starter switch?  You should be watching the one on the dash board (unless I am mistaken).

Try starting it just after the glow plug light goes out and see if that is any better.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

26 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

The light not changing to green until you depress the clutch is the expected behaviour.

If it does turn out that you have an issue with the glow plugs I would ask the trader that you bought the car from to fix it/them under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Good Evening Heidfirst, and thank you for your input once again,

I fully understand that "The light not changing to green until you depress the clutch is the expected behaviour"...but according to alan333...the orange light is supposed to go out completely...before pressing your clutch pedal in to MAKE it go green, however my orange light is not going out, hence it could only be the glow plugs!

As for asking the trader to fix it, I always assumed glow plugs came under "wear and tear", and the vehicle was fine at first, its only recent in the last few days I have had this issue, so I don't think the trader would be willing to help, and I do have Toyota's extended warranty...but again I don't think glow plugs are covered!

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

4 minutes ago, Druid Boy said:

Now I may have missed something here but you guys seem to be talking about two different lights:  one on the starter button and the other on the dash (the glow plug light).  From the original post it sounds as though you give the car 90 seconds before trying to start it.  To me that suggests that your glow plugs have stopped glowing hence your slow start.

Sam, are you watching for the glow plug light on the dash board going out or the orange light on the starter switch?  You should be watching the one on the dash board (unless I am mistaken).

Try starting it just after the glow plug light goes out and see if that is any better.

Dear Druid Boy,

 

Woow...now I'm really confused lol...I have been referring to the orange light on the actual START BUTTON...If I am honest I didn't even think about the glow light indicator on the dash!!! I know it comes up on the dash and then goes out the same as every other light...indicating that there are no issues...Hmmm

[Druid Boy]

Try it in the morning straight after the glowplug light goes out.  If you leave it too long before pressing the starter, a cold engine will suck all the heat away from the glow plugs and make the engine start rough, as though the glow plugs had never been on in the first place see.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

50 minutes ago, Druid Boy said:

Try it in the morning straight after the glowplug light goes out.  If you leave it too long before pressing the starter, a cold engine will suck all the heat away from the glow plugs and make the engine start rough, as though the glow plugs had never been on in the first place see.

Interesting. I will certainly try that. As soon as the glow plug light goes out...i will press my clutch in...and fire her up

and i will report back to you.

Cheers mate.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

As for asking the trader to fix it, I always assumed glow plugs came under "wear and tear", and the vehicle was fine at first, its only recent in the last few days I have had this issue, so I don't think the trader would be willing to help, and I do have Toyota's extended warranty...but again I don't think glow plugs are covered!

Under the new Consumer Rights Act 2015 buyers are allowed to claim a full refund if car turns out to be faulty within 30 days.

 If a defect is found after 30 days, but within six months, buyers are entitled to request a repair, replacement or refund. The law assumes that the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

12 hours ago, Druid Boy said:

Try it in the morning straight after the glowplug light goes out.  If you leave it too long before pressing the starter, a cold engine will suck all the heat away from the glow plugs and make the engine start rough, as though the glow plugs had never been on in the first place see.

Good Morning Druid Boy,

We are in the minuses at the moment, as i am sure you are too, its a cold and frosty morning, i had just jumped in our vehicle, still in my pj's lol, have a day off work i am glad to say, i pressed my start button once..steering comes out, pressed the start button for the second time, all the lights came on...looked at the glow light  in particular on my "dash" which came on for what felt like 2 seconds...as soon as it went off...i pressed my clutch down and hit the start button for the third time...and waa hey...it fired up straight away!!! Tried it twice just in case, no more chug starts!

So it appears it was mwah not starting it up properly each morning. So thank you Druid Boy, it is a nice feeling being helped on this forum with a good result, and you should feel proud knowing that you helped somebody, hope you have a wonderful day mate. 

No need to replace glow plugs for now, im happy, but on this point, did some research last night, new plugs certainly arent cheap, cheapest i found were on E Bay...19.00 a plug...and blue print oem in brand...just in case anybody is looking for a reasonable quality plug.

Take care All.

[alan333]

What happens if you enter the car, press the clutch and press the start button once?

[Heidfirst]

from cold it should pause slightly (presumably for glow plugs) & then start.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

1 hour ago, alan333 said:

What happens if you enter the car, press the clutch and press the start button once?

 

1 hour ago, alan333 said:

What happens if you enter the car, press the clutch and press the start button once?

Hi

i have never tried it, interesting, i assume that it would'nt start up, because as soon as you get in the car and if you were to press the clutch down, and press start, you would have to press start again so that all the lights come on, after which you would have to press start for the third time to fire it up!

I did a 100 mile round trip today with no starting issues, i now look forward to firing her up lol!

 

 

[Heidfirst]

Not so, Sam. Get in, put foot on clutch & light will go to green, press start & it should all come to life. No need to press the button 3 times under that scenario.

[alan333]

Yes Heidfirst that's what I'd expect.  That's the whole point of a start button IMHO... You get in the car and press it once and it starts.  Ok there needs to be some safety involved so they make you press the clutch, but I can live with that.

[Druid Boy]

Glad it is starting better Just have to figure out how many times to press the button now. 😊

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

A quick update...tried out your suggestion guys...by pressing the clutch all the way in and hitting the push start button once...and it works...fires up straight away!!!

Its much cooler and saves time, so thanks guys, no more one push, 2 push, etc etc.

[alan333]

Yeah Sam that's the way any push button start cars I've used has worked.  I hope I wasn't being confusing with my first reply to your thread when I was describing what each button press does (without pressing the clutch), maybe I should've mentioned that it's the clutch pressing that fulfills the starting criteria in the first place.