P0430

[BALIKBAYAN]

Hi,

The last few days I have got the check the engine light lit repeatedly (4 times) with the P0430 and twice P0136 faultcodes. I have always my OBD-II code reader in the car and I use Torque light app in the phone. It is very anoying as I am on a trip from Sweden to Scotland with rather much driving, so far 2000 km in 4 days.

I have had the P0136 coming every now and then a long time when it is wet weather. The engine has been running better when the check the engine light is on though. Lately I have noticed that I have had a rather low idling rpm (around 600 rpm) and also that the oil consumption has increased since last service. It was about 5000 km since last oilchange and when I checked the oil 2 or 3 weeks ago it was below the min mark on the dipstick. I always use Valvoline oils from oilman.

I have mostly used good quality petrol. Now when I am on a roadtrip I refuel when I need though. I changed to another brand last summer, because I noticed I got more mileage on the "new" brand.

Could anything get more "damaged" if I don't do anything now when I am away then clearing the fault codes every now and then when I stop for a rest? I rather not let any garage work with the car when I am away and need the car.

 

[Konrad C]

You have a code reader, so should know what the codes mean. I  Googled the codes and P0136 means the downstream sensor is not working properly. P0430 means the catalytic convertor is not functioning properly either. 

This means the cat' could be damaged or contaminated, and the sensor is telling the ECU, or the sensor is misreading the exhaust. 

Sometimes the pre-cat sensor is not working properly, causing the wrong adjustment and the post sensor reads gasses. 

Once the cat' is damaged, there is nothing more that can be done but change it. The exhaust needs inspection and the sensors checked. What engine - 1ZZ ? Hi oil consumption can damage the cat' with prolonged use. Basically oil contamination! 

Check the exhaust by revving the engine, to see signs of blue smoke. 

There are no cheap fixes. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Konrad C
additional info

[fastbob72]

Funny enough I've been having both the P0420 and P0135 failt codes for months but the MOT was up last week so had to address it.

I bought a new cat, and B1S2 o2 sensor even though the P0420 was suggesting the rear o2 sennsor B2S1 was at fault,it seemed initially to me that one of the faulty precat o2 sensors was creating the problems that most likely along with the knackered cat were freaking out the rear sensor more than it being at fault.

By using the Torque App you can test each o2,it gives a vaguely useful graphical model of the o2's signalling output but I'd say you need to bear in mind your cars state of tune and interpret the signalling graph rather than take it as a real time accurate representation. Anyway, clearly the rear o2 wasn't behaving the way it should but it behaving/responding which added to the upstream situation suggested it would probably be ok IF the upstream side was up to scratch.

 

New sensor came and because the front ones can be !Removed! awkward I disconnected the sensor then chopped the wire close to the body of the sensor to fit a long reach 22 mm socket over it to remove it. Came out of but the new one wouldn't thread up properly and I ended up !Removed! the old one back in because it was near 9pm and I need to get to work next day.

 

I forgot to mention I replaced the cat for a new one but I did it on the driveway with axle stands and a trolley jack. Awkward but fine until it came to removing to rear sensor. I ended up cutting the wiring to it, pulled the old cat out so I. could remove it much easier then reconnect it using white plasctic chocolate blocks but it seemed to work.

 

At one point I was running the car with two o2s disconnected and the only measureable effect it caused was a noticeable increase in fuel efficiency from an avg of 37-38 mpg up to 41-42 mpg.

 

I finally replaced both front o2 sensors mostly because when I ordered one on eBay it described them not as B1S1 or B1S2 but simply left and right.

Inevitably I ordered the wtomg one choosing to assume they were judging left and right from the position of standing at the front as if you are about to open the bonnet rather than L & R from the perspective of the driver's seat.

 

So I replaced both front sensors,fitted the new cat and with the Battery fully disconnected for several hours then connected again I've not seen the engine management light on since.

 

Yesterday, it breezed through the emmisions with 167,000 miles on the clock.

 

Unfortunately, it failed on 3 tyres, 2 rear seatbelts, a CV boot and the ABS warning light coming on.

 

Not bad at all for a 15 year old high miler 😁😁

 

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[fastbob72]

Ah Konrad, I should have known.I know the oil issue is always there but I really do believe a lot of the excessive consumption and burning is misdiagnosed oil seepage and/or ineffective or leaky PCV and crankcase emmisions systems.

 

Particularly if you do stick to the proper FS 5W-30. I've seen it in mine and noticed it in a few others. A slow steady seapage from behind the timing cover/tensioner area that's impossible to see from above. Frim below you basically have to get right in under the front wheelarch or fully underneath the car to be able to notice anything.

 

The vast majority of owners will never even think to look especially if they've heard of the dreaded vvt-i and it's insane thirst for oil.

 

They notice the oil level is low more and more often,it must be going somewhere and there's a ready made, vvt-i specific, infamous round defect just waiting to fit this lovely square hole of a problem.It all seems to fit so well that many people probably never actually checked beyond looking for oil pools under the car in the morning...... no oil patches can't be a leak but it's a slow leak of a thin oil that appears to only really get going with the engine running.

 

Whether it's a leaking timing cover gasket,getting past the tensioner, or crankcase pressure forcing it out around these weak spots it's not like a porous sump problem or worn sump plug. With the engine off it stops weeping and if you actually look down in that driverside rear corner of the engine bay you'll see there's all manner of castings and components that hinder the oil from freely running down the side of the engine onto the road.

 

I know that's where my oils going, it's not being burnt but it can get through it at times like a proper oil burning 1ZZ-FE is so well known to do.

 

There's nothing I can really do with the engine in the car. I'm sure there's an additive somewhere that'll claim to seal all leaks internally but it's juat as easy to regularly check the oil level and top it up as required.

 

With the car retested on friday I can get on with stripping the spare engine I have so it'll be great to know eventually where exactly the oil was actually coming from but the way it appears to use it more quickly over periods when I'm using the engine harder and my right foot has been heavy seems to point to a bigger leak at higher revs..... I still suspect the issue will lie somewhere around the crankcase emmisions neck of the woods 😅😅

 

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[fastbob72]

But yeah ever the 1ZZ-FEs unofficial defence council I bet there are quite a few motors condemned for burning oil when they weren't burning any at all but they fit the pattern that everyone is primed and expecting to see...... lazy thinking, cognitive bias or maybe if I got down from my horse and admit that it was half things not adding up but also half chance that I saw what was going on with my own car because I experienced that sinking feeling in the stomach when it started going through oil. I'd read all about it, reaearched the oil problem thoroughly and lapped it all up so I was actively keeping an eye out for the signs. Lo and behold the signs began to appear,the ticking timebomb was now set to go off and the thing I dreaded enough to consciously keep looking for the initial symptoms of had appeared like the perfect self fulfilling prophecy of doom.

 

Oil disappearing on the vvt-i is prediagnosed long before it actually ever happens I've no doubt that plenty have gone to the crusher unfairly and even Toyota dealers replaced blocks under warranty they didn't really need to because it's easier, especially in a busy high tech workshop to just get the job done then bother to probe too deeply into other causes.

 

Probably not to begin with but once but once the narrative has been established then the desire to go looking for all other causes first may well have evaporated over time.

 

Also the more they replaced the short block the easier it becomes to do another.It could lose any sense of being a big, dramatic operation and start to become commonplace possibly also contributing to dealers just wanting to get the car in, sorted and back to the customer asap.

 

Every car that was scrapped or had it's bottom end replaced was another piece of proof that this oil business really was a solid gold concrete fact about these engines adding more weight through numbers effrcted to the increasing size and scale of the problem.

 

I humbly submit m'lud that while there is no doubt a basis of truth in the infamous oil furore there's is possibly as much as an equal amount of 'giving a dog a bad name' at play here too.

 

It would be interesting to actually get hold of some reputable and reliable numbers of how many 1ZZ-FEs actually were replaced, reported to have the problem against the possible number of actual engines sold n out there and the estimated number of cars with 1.6/1.8 vvt-i engine that never flagged up at all 😯😯

 

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[Konrad C]

Fastbob72, as an Avensis owner of formerly 7A-FE leanburn and now 2ZR Valvematic, I manage to jump the 1ZZ engine. I know friends with the pre 2005 1ZZ engines, and they are topping up every so often. One friend who is a member, had the T22 Mk1 that was using oil, then bought a very late model T25 1ZZ estate that hardly needed any top up. Unfortunately that car was written off. That engine could now be in an earlier Avensis. 

[BALIKBAYAN]

Konrad yes I know what the faultcodes mean and I also have a workshop manual for the T25 Avensis so I can read the meaning of the faultcodes. I started this thread when I was away on a roadtrip to Scotland to find out if I needed to find a garage that could fix the car when we were on the roadtrip. Now, when I am back in Sweden there is no rush to find a solution on the problems. In worst case I could ride the bus or the bicycle to work. I have no idea how soon I should make the repairs. How far can I drive before the faultcode is permanently on. The way back home (1300 km) was no problems. The engine light got on 10 minutes before we were back home again and it was P0136.

I have not noticed anything wrong with any o2-sensors when I have had the P0136 faultcode. Every time it has appeared it has been wet weather. I have assumed it was an electrical fault. When I use the Torque lite app in the phone all o2-sensors behave in the same way. It might be an incorrect conclusion by me. I have always been taught that if a sensor says that something is wrong doublecheck the sensor if it is working correctly. That is what i have done with the app in the phone, or at least tried to do.. If the ECU say that one sensor is faulty and it behaves just like the others it tells me that something do disturb the sensor. In this case the wet weather (as it is always wet weather or just after a car wash).

The P0430 faultcode is new for me. I have read about it, but I don't know what I have to do. I have read at different places at internet that some say change the cat, other places say change the cat and the ecu or just change the sensors.

I don't know if the oilconsumption is anything to consider in this case. It is an rather old car and it has 240 000 km on the clock. It is due for an oilchange, filters, plugs etc... as soon as I have got the stuff at home. My old Corolla didn't use any oil until 3000 km before oilchange, but then it just disappeared. It might be the same with this car. I haven't run on 5w/30 oil until now, I have mostly used 15W/40 oils in the engine. I know that the 5W/30 oil is recomended, but if you read the manual you find a table with other oil qualities too. As far as I know the 5W/30 oil is much thinner than the 15W/40 oil. When you have more than 210 000 km the oil changes are every 10 000 km instead of the 15 000 km. Maybe it is normal to have a higher oil consumption with the mileage I have.