Would my driving be suitable for a Prius?

[a900ss]

Looking to buy a new car and opt out of the company car scheme but before I decide on a diesel, should I consider a Prius?

My concerns are that I am a 'swift' driver and I do hardly any town/city driving.  Not a great start for a Hybrid I guess?

I do circa 30k miles a year and currently plan on buying a 1 year old diesel, keeping it for 4 years so getting rid of it at 5 years old with circa 130k miles on it. It would be a 1.6/2.0 diesel auto. 

OR I could buy a new Prius (I see very few sold at 1 year and the savings aren’t worth it) but keep it 5 years and sell afterwards at 150k miles. 

My driving is 80% single A roads cutting through the Cotswolds at 60/70 MPH. I don’t race to overtake but am rarely overtaken. 15% of my mileage is motorway at a circa 80MPH cruise. The other 5% is running around town. 

Although I would consider myself quicker than average, I also consider myself a fairly economical driver. I anticipate and read the road so use the brakes infrequently and carry momnetum. FYI, my current car is a Mercedes C220d and I currently average circa 58MPG. (probably 60 ish in the warmer months and 56 ish in th colder months)

 

Based on on what I’ve said, what MPG would you REALSITICALLY expect me to deliver?  

I would expect a Prius to offer savings in tyres and brakes, have no DPF issues and be worth more at resale time.

Thanks in advance. 

[16_Auris_HSD]

21 minutes ago, a900ss said:

My concerns are that I am a 'swift' driver and I do hardly any town/city driving.  Not a great start for a Hybrid I guess?

This is definitely a case for a diesel. If you do loads of motorway/A road driving DPF shouldn't be an issue. Also Prius or Auris are fairly underpowered for swift motorway/A road driving.

[a900ss]

You’re right in that I’ve never had a DPF issue in the past due to my driving profile. 

[BhxTrev]

Stick with your diesel mate because although I love my Prius & it I suits me perfectly, I don't drive like you or on roads like you do so unless there's someone who drives like you & in a similar situation using high mileage on A roads I'd certainly be reluctant to advise. I was in a Gen3 Prius taxi recently & the driver told me he bought the car with 99,000 miles on the clock & had since done 100,000 miles in it himself in fact he showed me the 199,000 miles registered. The car was running very smoothly & he told me all he's had done since owning the car was to have the usual services, MOTs & he replaced tyres together with having the tracking checked. No brake pads nothing & the Battery was still okay. I think you would find the Prius reliable & long lasting BUT you can hardly compare its performance to that of a much more expensive high powered car such as the Mercedes!!

[a900ss]

Thanks thanks but for clarity, the Mercedes is a company car and I’m replacing it with a car from my own cash. If I go diesel, it’ll likely be a Skoda Octavia or similar. Probably a 1.6 diesel  

[drives]

Your usage will be fine for a prius. Many will say a diesel is better suited but I disagree- my personal preference. I have done a lot of miles in diesels on motorway and a roads, and would opt for the prius every time. In fact I bought a prius for a 95% motorway commute, 80 mile round trip. More economical and more comfortable. My driving sounds very similar to yours- economical in terms of being careful with braking etc but drive at around 75-80. I get 55mpg in winter, and 60mpg in summer easily (calculated rather than dash which very slightly over estimates)

[Cyker]

Hmm, tricky... a year or two ago I'd have said go diesel without reservation - It's far easier to get high mpgs with a diesel with that kind of high-speed long distance driving. The HSDs tend to be more economical when they get a chance to regen.

However, since the push for diesels has taken such a sharp U-Turn and they've gone from helping to slow climate change and the depletion of our oil reserves, to being the cause of everything that is bad in the world, I feel the massive shafting that seems to be lining up to hit DERVs makes them harder to recommend.

They're already a lot less reliable than they used to be due to all the emissions control junk that's being attached to them; The extra tax and penalties for going into town centres is just more nails...

If you don't go anywhere likely to be affected by such things and are getting a 2nd hand car, you can probably pick up something that has a low tax bracket for less if you can wait and see if used-diesel prices will drop.
If you're getting something new, I'd wait longer and see where the industry goes; There are some cool things on the horizon like Mazda's fancy SpCCI engine, which will be coming to market in a year or so and supposedly gives petrol-like power and emissions with diesel torque and efficiency, and hybrids and electrics are getting better and better.

Toyota's been sitting on their laurels a bit too long with their HSD's - I think they've had the market cornered so long they've gotten a bit complacent. They had some great concepts like the Yaris Hybrid R which I would have bought in a heart-beat, but instead we get the Yaris GRMN which is basically a Corolla Compressor. A hybrid GT86 would have some great potential too - That car is sorely lacking in torque at the low end and would benefit from having some leccy motor grunt!

[danowat]

At the moment, I'd say stick with the diesel, but I would also say try and get a test drive in a prius, as you might enjoy it. 

60mpg is pretty keen, my mpg, in a 2012, just about gets 60 in winter, and above 70 in summer, a newer one would get more. 

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, a900ss said:

Looking to buy a new car and opt out of the company car scheme but before I decide on a diesel, should I consider a Prius?

If you like the idea of a Prius, you might want to consider a full EV. The new Nissan Leaf should give you 120 daily commuting miles on an overnight charge. If you have workplace charging that is a bonus. The new Leaf is supposed to be very nippy - 0-60 mph in around 6 seconds.

[Cyker]

If he does 30k miles a year I suspect he'd need a lot more than the 80 miles he'd actually get from a Leaf!

[16_Auris_HSD]

Regards residuals, hybrids are more likely to retain value better than diesels (and petrol too I think) mainly thanks to the push towards EV and hybrids being in between and not being diesel. Diesel itself won't disappear in the next 5 years but I doubt it will recover from current situation. Best suggestion would be to ask your Toyota dealer for weekend long test drive and decide if a 1.8l hybrid works with your driving style. If I was buying a hybrid for business motorway use I'd go for a Lexus IS since it's got a 2.5 l engine with combined output of 217hp.

[Cyker]

You're not kidding; My friend is looking to get an Auris HSD and I'm amazed at how much they are priced at! He wanted one around 30k miles but is having to look more at ones north of 80k just because of the costs...

I've told him the mileages aren't how it is with petrol cars, and is more like diesel, so even high mileage ones are worth considering as it doesn't mean they're clapped out! Not needing to worry about clutches or timing belts is a big plus :)

[a900ss]

25 minutes ago, Cyker said:

If he does 30k miles a year I suspect he'd need a lot more than the 80 miles he'd actually get from a Leaf!

Yes. I regularly do 300 miles in a day so EV isn’t an option. 

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

If he does 30k miles a year I suspect he'd need a lot more than the 80 miles he'd actually get from a Leaf!

You would get 120 miles from the new 40kWh Leaf - 3miles/kWh is easy in the winter and maybe 5 in the summer. 300 miles a day is not really an EV option with anything other than a Tesla with a 100kWh Battery. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Toyota's been sitting on their laurels a bit too long with their HSD's - I think they've had the market cornered so long they've gotten a bit complacent. They had some great concepts like the Yaris Hybrid R which I would have bought in a heart-beat, but instead we get the Yaris GRMN which is basically a Corolla Compressor. A hybrid GT86 would have some great potential too - That car is sorely lacking in torque at the low end and would benefit from having some leccy motor grunt!

In September 2017, Toyota said they will be offering a more performance oriented hybrid powertrain, some details of which is due to be released early 2018.

The GT86 is a development shared with Subaru, has a Subaru powertrain, and is built by Subaru.

[Duffryn]

Just wondering why, in regularly doing 300 miles a day, you'd opt to give up your company MB car and slog one of your own? And, at that mileage driver comfort plays a big part. I love my Gen3 Prius but wouldn't really relish the prospect of doing 300 cross-country miles on consecutive days in it too often, although Gen4 would provide some comfort upgrade I'm sure. 

[PeteB]

Which just goes to show how different we all are.

Ever since I drove a Mk1 Prius in 2002, I haven't wanted to drive anything else even for a day.  I've driven some 300,000 miles in Hybrids since then, and still find them as intellectually entertaining as ever.  My dealer even lends my a Hybrid whenever possible when I have my car serviced.

Plus the gear-less (not automatic there are no gears in the traditional sense) smoothness and tranquillity make me feel much more relaxed than just about anything else except a true EV.

When I swapped my Gen 3 Prius for a Gen 4 18 months ago, I did actively consider a Tesla model S, but while it's claimed 300 mile range would more than suffice most of the time, there a a few journeys I do each year that would have been a nightmare without access to a very high performance charging station in a suitable location.

Finally, there is now one in East Anglia that would make one of my periodic journeys practicable.

BUT, I can't answer K's original question - I think only an extended test drive will do that.

My driving style doesn't normally match K's, I've become more sedate since acquiring the Hybrids, not because (by my standards) they're not up to or not pleasant when pressed, but because it feels so much more relaxed.  In the first half of the last decade where Hybrid owners tended to be keen on the concept, many reported on the forums that they accelerated less hard, exceeded speed limits less, for the same reasons.

In fact, in 2006, after a 30 year IT career, I joined a startup minicab firm in London who based their business model on the 2nd generation Prius, and drove a minicab in and around London for a year.   It was often more necessary to press on than is my usual style, but I never felt the car was not up to the task.  Of course, if I was used to driving high performance cars I might have felt differently, but I've come across plenty of people who've swapped from quite tasty machine (a Subaru WRX in one case) and not regretted it.  Of course, I've also come across some who couldn't get on the with Hybrid way of doing things and changed back.  BTW, I did 46,000 miles in the Prius minicab that year, plus another 7,000 in my own Gen 1 Prius.  Lots of passengers said they felt less stressed in a Prius when stuck in traffic, even if they were running late - and many of the clients had previously been used to being driven around in Mercedes S class, BMW 7 series and the like.

[BhxTrev]

Hi Pete,

You’ve summed up more or less how I feel about driving my Prius. I agree the cars not for everybody but it suits me perfectly. I think folks shouldn’t expect the Prius to be a high performance super fast vehicle but it certainly isn’t lacking in a decent comfortable performance together with good reliability & running costs. For me it’s the vehicle of choice for now until there’s something better but that, as far as I can see hasn’t happened yet!

[QuantumFireball]

18 hours ago, a900ss said:

My concerns are that I am a 'swift' driver and I do hardly any town/city driving.  Not a great start for a Hybrid I guess?

The Prius may not be the most powerful thing around (claimed 134 bhp combined), and on paper does appear to be slower than the C220d (assuming W204/W205?). But I find it provides sufficient power when needed, e.g. getting up to speed when joining motorways, overtaking, etc. - and I'm not afraid of flooring it! I think the transmission does a good job at making the most of the power it has. And having an automatic is great for long journeys (or anything really!).

With previous generations of the Prius, one thing they were lacking in was fuel efficiency at motorway speeds in comparison with diesels, but I think with the current generation they've really closed the gap on this. I don't have personal experience with the 4th gen, but from what I've seen I think around 60 MPG should be achievable in these conditions. With the 3rd gen (2009-2015) it would have been more like 50-53 MPG.

[danowat]

0-30 is pretty keen, a Prius punches well above it's weight off the lights up to 30-40mph, it does run out of puff above that, and if you are a driver who likes to press on at motorway speeds, you'll find it lacking, and noisy.

It's not meant for that kind of driving, if you drive it like a normal car, you'll be disappointing, especially in terms of economy.

[kithmo]

I have to disagree there Danny, especially when it comes to the Gen 4 it's not lacking, it pulls like a diesel at low revs due to the electric assistance and as good as any other 1.8 litre petrol car above that. It's not noisy and economy at motorway speeds is around 60-65mpg .

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, QuantumFireball said:

I think the transmission does a good job at making the most of the power it has. 

 

Actually, it is not good, it is superb 

[danowat]

35 minutes ago, kithmo said:

I have to disagree there Danny, especially when it comes to the Gen 4 it's not lacking, it pulls like a diesel at low revs due to the electric assistance and as good as any other 1.8 litre petrol car above that. It's not noisy and economy at motorway speeds is around 60-65mpg .

The Gen4 must be much better then, because if you try and gun it at motorway speeds the eCVT means you don't have the torque if you want it, like you would in a diesel in top gear, and it makes a right old din, it's quiet if you keep your right foot in check, but the lack of torque control you have with a manual is missing.

Not that it bothers me, because I rarely go above 70 with any real purpose anyway.

[QuantumFireball]

I can't say I have any problems with lack of progress at motorway speeds. Maybe with the Plug-in there are less situations when MG2 output might be restricted due to low Battery SOC? I don't know really. And I much prefer the general refinement with occasional high revs (e.g. climbing hills) compared to the constant drone (and vibration) of my 406 diesel at 2,900 RPM when going 120 km/h (75 MPH). I know modern diesels are better, but I don't think I'll be going back to them any time soon...

[PeteB]

19 minutes ago, danowat said:

The Gen4 must be much better then, because if you try and gun it at motorway speeds the eCVT means you don't have the torque if you want it...

The Gen 4 does improve on previous versions, in lots of ways.

It does seem odd that on paper it has the same top speed as the Gen 3, and is 0.2 sec slower to 62 mph, yet it pulls noticeably more strongly in a given situation.

The revving produced by stamping on the accelerator sounds louder than it is because the car is so refined the rest of the time.   Squeezing the pedal rapidly rather than stamping on it gives more refined progress, with little loss of urgency.  The so-called eCVT of the Toyota Hybrids works completely differently to CVTs like in some Yaris models, some Hondas, and Mk2 Micras.  They had a system of cones and belts, which still needed either a torque converter or a type of clutch to handle being stationary with the engine running with the transmission engaged.  The Toyota system, on the other hand, is a sort of glorified differential, which connects the wheels to a petrol engine and electric motor-generator.  Mechanically beautifully simple, with far fewer moving parts that a normal gearbox (manual, auto or CVT).  It works because the electric motors can contribute masses of torque from 0 rpm upwards, removing the need for gears in the normal sense.  Reverse?  The electric motor just turns the other way.  Nothing slips, connects or disconnects, changes cogs, or slides along cones.  When you stamp on the accelerator, the engine revs rise, and the electric motor reduces rpm to compensate, even though it may be increasing its torque input at the same time.

Again, I come back to the need for K to satisfy himself (or not) in a test drive.

For me, all four generations of Prius have had more than adequate power at all legal speeds.  The Gen 1 Prius was limited to 99 mph (106 on the speedo) and claimed 0-62 in 12½ sec, but the almost instant power on tap meant it felt better then the figures suggested.  On a long journeys, if in a hurry, I would set the cruise control for 75 mph (a true 70, so not illegal), and still expect at least 55 mpg (calculated by me, not the car's computers) subject to the weather.