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T180 head gasket repairs


opelfruits
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Hi, just had the bad bad new today my beloved RAV4 has head gasket issues £1800,  leaking no 4 injector £650 & blocked particle filter £300.

I've had the vehicle for 4 years, done approx 30 of the 165k.

We're between a rock & hard place as to what to do, yes the repairs toyota have quoted are expensive but throwing the vehicle away & potentially buying another vehicle for more than the repairs with potentially unknown issues worries me.

Has anyone had these repairs done & regretted it ?

Alex

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Welcome to Toyota Owners Club.

Moved to the Rav4 club.

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Who quoted those prices as imo those are actually quite cheap?

Chances are that the head/head-gasket issue was caused by underlying causes & if you don't fix those it may well recurr.

 

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Toyota, I'm wondering how likely is a repeat in a few years, is this a potential money pit ?

Have had varying opinions during the day but technician at toyota advised to get rid given the age & mileage but that's easy said when I need a replacement car which can tow a caravan that  know nothing about.

Would I be throwing good money after bad having it fixed ?

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The injector and DPF are straight forward - the DPF is a good price and it may be possible to cut some cost by using a reconditioned injector. With the head gasket - the devil is in the detail. The cost quoted sounds like a straightforward gasket replacement and depending on the symptoms and what’s found when stripping - a straightforward replacement might be fine. However this job has a habit of escalating in cost very  significantly when the full extent of the problem is unearthed. Alternatively there have been cases where the failure isn’t fully investigated and a replacement gasket follows the same failure pattern further down the line.

On the face of it - repairs will be about the value of the repaired car and it may turn out that repairs are way more than the value of the car. Given the mileage, age and other looming repairs, doing a full repair and keeping the car may not be the most cost effective option.

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8 hours ago, gjnorthall said:

On the face of it - repairs will be about the value of the repaired car and it may turn out that repairs are way more than the value of the car. Given the mileage, age and other looming repairs, doing a full repair and keeping the car may not be the most cost effective option.

Sounds like good advice to me.  Replace it with a petrol version, and you should have far less chance of a repetition.  Doing only 30k in 4 years, it's not as if the fuel saving is that significant.

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For stuff like that, and a car that age, you can take it to some local garage which can probably get it  fixed for a way less money.

Please don't just write off the car and replace with another one, as the other one can come with hidden problems too, if this one served you good, it deserves going around some local places and asking them for a quote.

As mentioned in 3rd post, this should not cost that much, and i also find their prices absurdly high, 650 for an injector...

 

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5 hours ago, IanML said:

Sounds like good advice to me.  Replace it with a petrol version, and you should have far less chance of a repetition.  Doing only 30k in 4 years, it's not as if the fuel saving is that significant.

Unless he perhaps needs the torque/ towing capacity of the diesel e.g. caravan.

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5 hours ago, furtula said:

As mentioned in 3rd post, this should not cost that much, and i also find their prices absurdly high, 650 for an injector...

it's a special piezo injector on the T180 & will need coding into the ECU.  For £650  fitted from a dealer it is probably already a refurb. unit.

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2 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Unless he perhaps needs the torque/ towing capacity of the diesel e.g. caravan.

The towing capacities of my 2 litre petrol (1AZ-FE) and the corresponding 2 litre diesel (1CD-FTV) in my Toyota Handbook are identical (1500kg braked, 640kg unbraked).  What am I missing?

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Yes, I need the car for towing a caravan, these is nothing on the second hand market for the estimated cost of the repairs which even comes close.

From a face to face with the technician today, apparently the head can't be skimmed on this engine which I find absurd that toyota would produce such an engine.

I've spoken to a diesel engine specialist company today who are going to check ref skimming the head & options should this be required. Toyota told me if they strip it they either fix depending on what they find it or scrap it. i'm really struggling with the concept that there could be so much wrong or not yet being advised that better to let the patient die than resuscitate.

As I said to the tech. the street value of the car is irrelevant to a degree.

Are there any options of swapping the engine for a later version & at what cost ?

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28 minutes ago, IanML said:

The towing capacities of my 2 litre petrol (1AZ-FE) and the corresponding 2 litre diesel (1CD-FTV) in my Toyota Handbook are identical (1500kg braked, 640kg unbraked).  What am I missing?

He has a T180 ... unbraked 750Kg, braked towing weight 2000Kg.

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11 minutes ago, opelfruits said:

From a face to face with the technician today, apparently the head can't be skimmed on this engine which I find absurd that toyota would produce such an engine.

That is the official Toyota line although we do know of people that have had it done & apparently are OK. Toyota had an extended warranty programme for this but it is now closed (it was for 7 years, yours is 12).

 

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I think ur Rav has to many issue's and at way to much a cost for it's age and with a potential for future bother, ie particulate filter and the head gasket problem, possible maybe even probable money pit as u say, I wud not spend that amount of money on it, but wud invest in something else. U cud buy any make of 4x4, not just a Toyota, tho the later model Rav's than our's are lovely. We recently bought a Dacia Duster 4x4 absolutely love it, do some homework on possible replacements is my thinking, used car review's from owner's of car's - alway's a good move in my opinion. Good luck in ur decision.

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1 hour ago, opelfruits said:

... From a face to face with the technician today, apparently the head can't be skimmed on this engine which I find absurd that toyota would produce such an engine.

I've spoken to a diesel engine specialist company today who are going to check ref skimming the head & options should this be required. Toyota told me if they strip it they either fix depending on what they find it or scrap it....

First a caveat - I'm no mechanic so don't take anything I say as definitive but ...

From following the saga of the 2AD engine I understand that the reason "the head can't be skimmed" is that the design clearances are tight and the pistons are then likely to collide with the valves ... which I understand might be quite bad ... 😞

However, replacement head gaskets are available in various thicknesses so that you can compensate for the amount that you skim off -- so the head can be successfully skimmed provided that you then use the right gasket ... 🙂

Hopefully that info is mildly helpful / encouraging but if it turns out to be utter tosh ... apologies!

Edit: e.g. gaskets with different thicknesses

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Thanks all for your help, if I went for a later RAV 2.2, how do i ensure a don't end up with another 2AD dog ?

if it's the 150 BHP version am I in the clear so far as head gasket issues & is there anything else I should be concerned with on these ?

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From what I have read here on the forum, ur head gasket problem was solved by the early part of 2010  by Toyota. Somebody else will be along shortly with the exact date for that I'd imagine. Don't know of any other prob's with them. 

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if you look at the TSB "RAV4 with 2AD (Prod. Date: Jul 2005 to Dec 2008)"  - of course registration date could be much later than production date.

 

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Either way, the 150 bhp version was introduced from 2010 - well after the reported problem was resolved in production. Those of us driving the 150 bhp version are confident that this isn't an issue any longer ... though it is still a 2AD and a modern diesel engine complete with emissions control technology ... 😉

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You are in a rubbish position but I wouldn’t be spending that sort of money on a problematic 180. Sad but they have proved time and time again not to live up to their original promise. The proposed work may solve your problems for now but there is no guarantee that it will be a lasting solution. 

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Hi all,  I've been looking more & more & more into this, you tube video's etc. & I'm just thinking if the head isn't warped am I in with a shout ?

In addition I've seen no overheating, hardly any coolant loss, engine oil looks fine & no white stuff, based on this I can't believe that the problem is terminal at this stage.

I don't know what method has been used to diagnose the HG failure, they tell me the expansion chamber is black but I haven't seen this for myself.

Could toyota have misdiagnosed & this be a gasket only failure with no engine damage ?

The diesel specialists will call me Monday ref the options of skimming the head if needed so I'm thinking if they think there is a chance, I'll have the vehicle trailer'd over other than run the risk driving it for investigation, how much this will cost I'm not sure, does anyone know anyone with a flat bed in Leicester ?

The vehicle went in for a suspected particle filter block, the garage couldn't do a forced regen due to fluctuating pressure, they suspected it was a DPF pressure sensor issue but due to the cost of the sensor they suggested i take it to toyota to double check.

All this has come as a real shock to us, the car has run like a missile ever since we've has it with no issues.

Don't get me wrong I hate the bridgstone tyre system forcing me to buy expensive tyres at Toyota & If I'd have done my homework properly I probably wouldn't have bought it because of but I'm really struggling with just being told your car may have cancer so best put it down regardless.

 

 

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if it is just coolant loss then the water pumps weeping on these engines is a known issue (I had 1 replaced foc on a 2.2 Avensis).

A "sniff" test of the coolant should say whether it has a failed head gasket or not. 

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I think it would be helpful if you gave us the full story so we can understand the background to the head gasket issue. The DPF issue is clear but it would be interesting to know how this led to a suspected head gasket failure. It really would be worth checking with Toyota how they came to a conclusion - was it the result of a sniff test (which would be conclusive if positive) or something else - I wouldn't base a conclusion on the fact that the expansion tank is black.  If any uncertainty then it would be worth getting a sniff test carried out - it's the only way of proving a gasket issue.

You mention the loss of a small amount of coolant - how much? Is there any evidence of a coolant stain on the vent pipe of the expansion tank? 

I wouldn't strip anything until there was conclusive proof of a gasket failure. However it would be worth checking the thickness of the head gasket as indicated by the number of notches on the edge (I've described this in more detail in previous posts). This would at least confirm (or otherwise!) that a light skim and thicker gasket was possible.

Failure of a head gasket is no big deal even if the head is marked and it's true that you could get this done cheaper than Toyota since the labour element is the significant cost. Always use a genuine Toyota head gasket but good brand items such as head bolts are half Toyota price. If the gasket has failed by carbon stamping then you're in a different cost ballpark and if the root cause isn't addressed then the gasket will fail again. You don't mention oil consumption - high consumption is often a precursor of carbon stamping and gasket failure.

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30 minutes ago, gjnorthall said:

I think it would be helpful if you gave us the full story so we can understand the background to the head gasket issue. The DPF issue is clear but it would be interesting to know how this led to a suspected head gasket failure. It really would be worth checking with Toyota how they came to a conclusion - was it the result of a sniff test (which would be conclusive if positive) or something else - I wouldn't base a conclusion on the fact that the expansion tank is black.  If any uncertainty then it would be worth getting a sniff test carried out - it's the only way of proving a gasket issue.

You mention the loss of a small amount of coolant - how much? Is there any evidence of a coolant stain on the vent pipe of the expansion tank? 

I wouldn't strip anything until there was conclusive proof of a gasket failure. However it would be worth checking the thickness of the head gasket as indicated by the number of notches on the edge (I've described this in more detail in previous posts). This would at least confirm (or otherwise!) that a light skim and thicker gasket was possible.

Failure of a head gasket is no big deal even if the head is marked and it's true that you could get this done cheaper than Toyota since the labour element is the significant cost. Always use a genuine Toyota head gasket but good brand items such as head bolts are half Toyota price. If the gasket has failed by carbon stamping then you're in a different cost ballpark and if the root cause isn't addressed then the gasket will fail again. You don't mention oil consumption - high consumption is often a precursor of carbon stamping and gasket failure.

Just called Toyota to check method of HG diagnostic, typically no one there who knows.

ref coolant, no sign of any leakage & was only topped up from min to max level.

I have topped it up with oil a couple of times but not vast quantities as i know they are moderate oil burners, really not sure how much, maybe 1-1.5 liters in last 10.000 miles.

 

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The devil is in the detail. The level was topped up from min to max for what reason - eg because it suddenly dropped from max to min or it dropped from max to min over x weeks or y miles ..................... Just trying to establish the coolant loss vs time or mileage covered. A feature of gasket failure on this engine is that coolant is expelled from the vent - level drops and needs topping up  - same thing happens repeatedly.  If the loss is fairly small (less than the volume between max and min) over, say, a few weeks or a few hundred miles then this would suggest a leak rather than a gasket failure. Hopefully you can glean from Toyota what led them to suspect a gasket failure and what tests were conducted to confirm this. If no joy - I'd get a sniff test done to prove one way or another that there is a head gasket issue.

The oil consumption you quote is very good and certainly no cause for concern. 

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