yaris v prius economy

[wass]

Something which I can't weigh up is the comparative poor performance of the 1500 yaris  hybrid  verses the 1800 prius. The yaris is a smaller , lighter car with a smaller engine and lower carrying capacity and yet when one looks at fuelly, the website for real fuel consumption,the yaris doesn't compare very well at all on economy, in fact , the yaris only wins through  in any comparison at all when one takes purchase price into consideration. The yaris only seems to be able to roughly equal the performance of the physically bigger  but much older design generation 2 prius which shares  what we were told was a "less developed" version of the same 1500 engine. The only conclusion I can draw is that the yaris must have a very poor aerodynamic design or suffers from a disproportionate amount of brake binding. Any ideas? Did Toyotas designers drop the ball when they came to the Yaris hybrid?

[CPN]

A very good question! The answer to which I would be most interested in too!

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[FROSTYBALLS]

The drag co-efficient of the current Yaris is 0.286, whereas the Prius is 0.24 (Toyota's own figures).

[Ten Ninety]

Is it something to do with the limited Battery? According to Wikipedia, it's only 0.9kWh.

I drove an early Yaris HSD years ago and was not impressed. It felt underpowered - I don't mean that in terms of speed, but in terms of having to use far more throttle than I was expecting to, just to maintain forward motion. It seemed very difficult to find that coasting sweet spot as well, as the accelerator was too sharp even in Eco mode. It returned dismal indicated mpg on the test drive and was an all round disappointment.

[BhxTrev]

I'd have thought the Yaris would be more economical & certainly am shocked to hear that especially as I'd thought that as I get older I'd possibly switch to a Yaris. 

[thecaretaker]

I have not driven a Hybrid Yaris (Isn't it an always on hybrid not having EV mode?), but I've owned the Auris and Mk3 and Mk4 Prius and the same goes for the Auris. I think it is down to the fact that in a way, the Yaris and Auris are both standard cars that were adapted to also include a Hybrid version. Whereas the Prius has only ever been designed to be a Hybrid.

I know the bonnet on the Auris was immensely heavy compared to the Aluminium bonnet of the Prius.

I was also aware that the underside wasn't as sculpted as the Prius. I sold the Auris mainly as although it was a very nice car to drive, it just didn't feel like a Prius in terms of being a true Hybrid. Yet it had the same 1.8 engine.

[danowat]

My wife brought a Yaris hybrid, both of use assuming it would match, or even beat my Prius in terms of fuel economy, it doesn't, it's not even that close.

My Prius regularly does 5-10mpg more than the Yaris does, it must be down to the smaller Battery (and traction motor?) and the aero.

That's not to say the Yaris is not economical, it is, 60+ mpg is still good for a gasoline powered automatic.

[kithmo]

Doesn't the Yaris have a different set up to the Prius, a different gearbox ?

[CPN]

The Yaris doesn't have a "gearbox" as such (in the same way as the Prius)

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[danowat]

21 minutes ago, kithmo said:

Doesn't the Yaris have a different set up to the Prius, a different gearbox ?

I think, apart from the specs, the HSD is basically the same across the board.

And to answer the question above, yes, the Yaris does have an EV mode.

[QuantumFireball]

16 hours ago, wass said:

...yet when one looks at fuelly, the website for real fuel consumption...

There's more than one of those 🙂 Problem with Fuelly is it's primary Americans on it, and they don't sell the Yaris Hybrid there (they have the Prius c instead, aka Aqua).

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/1287-Yaris_Hybrid.html?fueltype=2&powerunit=2 - 58 MPG average for Yaris Hybrid over a much larger sample of 1252 users (vs. 88 on Fuelly)

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2010&powerunit=2 - 57 MPG for Prius 2010 onwards (excluding PHV)

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2004&constyear_e=2009&powerunit=2 - 54 MPG for 2nd gen Prius

[CPN]

Be careful of confusing UK & US mpg figures on Fuelly. Oh and I wouldn't agree that its mainly US people on there. Apart from bodywork/style, the US Prius C is identical to the Yaris Hybrid sold here.

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[kithmo]

7 hours ago, CPN said:

The Yaris doesn't have a "gearbox" as such (in the same way as the Prius)

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I know the Prius doesn't have a a gearbox, but what's all this about on the Yaris ?

[Ten Ninety]

33 minutes ago, kithmo said:

I know the Prius doesn't have a a gearbox, but what's all this about on the Yaris ?

 

It's just a horrible traditional auto selector in place of the lovely twiddler you get in the Prius and Auris. The C-HR is the same. It has no bearing on the 'mechanicals' underneath.

[Slasher_uk]

38 minutes ago, kithmo said:

I know the Prius doesn't have a a gearbox, but what's all this about on the Yaris ?

That’s the selector not the gearbox, it has a cvt which is not a gearbox in the conventional sense.

[kithmo]

What threw me is the "P" position on the selector, there's no "P" on the Prius selector.

[danowat]

30 minutes ago, kithmo said:

What threw me is the "P" position on the selector, there's no "P" on the Prius selector.

There is............but it's a button 😉

[QuantumFireball]

19 hours ago, CPN said:

Oh and I wouldn't agree that its mainly US people on there. Apart from bodywork/style, the US Prius C is identical to the Yaris Hybrid sold here.

There are 9 times more Auris drivers on Spritmonitor than Fuelly, for example (about 3,100 vs. 340) - again another car not sold in the US. Spritmonitor is much more useful IMO for fuel consumption data for cars sold in Europe.

The Prius C/Aqua and Yaris Hybrid share the same drivetrain, and are built on the same platform, but that's where the similarities end - the Aqua is a slightly longer car with longer wheelbase, and as it was designed as a hybrid from the ground up it's probably more efficient (lower height, slightly lower kerb weight, etc.). I can't find anything more specific than a 0.28 drag coefficient for the Aqua/Prius C, don't know if it's actually better than the 0.286 of the Yaris.

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

There are 9 times more Auris drivers on Spritmonitor than Fuelly, for example (about 3,100 vs. 340) - again another car not sold in the US.

It is sold in the US - initially as a Scion iM, and after the Scion brand was chopped, as the Corolla hatchback.

[QuantumFireball]

Yes, but only the second generation, and with only the non-hybrid 1.8 2ZR-FAE petrol engine which was not available in Europe in that generation. With only 64 of those cars on Fuelly between the two names (it's nowhere near as popular as the Auris in this part of the world) and an engine that did not exist here in that car, that data is not particularly useful to us.

[FROSTYBALLS]

....but the Auris, whether it has the same drivetrains or not, is still sold in the US, which is contrary to what you said.

The second generation Auris is a re-worked first generation and even carried forward the same Type Approval - so we're not talking about vastly different cars. Aside from that hatchbacks in the US are not as popular as saloons (which is vice versa in the UK) so they won't sell that well - hence the Corolla saloon being sold there and within the rest of the EU. The Corolla saloon is the saloon version of the Auris.

[QuantumFireball]

OK, I did forget the Scion iM/Corolla iM existed, but the point I was trying to make is that Spritmonitor has more useful data relevant to Toyota models sold here than Fuelly - and the existence of the iM doesn't help improve that. 

I have to say there's a lot of bad data on Fuelly, e.g. if you look at the "engine type" for any car it's usually full of complete garbage e.g. Yaris with boxer engines and hybrid V6's! It can often be difficult trying to work out what engine the user actually has (as they may not specify clearly at all). Not so much a problem with the Prius, but definitely other Toyotas. That's not to say there's no bad data on Spritmonitor, but the much larger sample sets for Euro-spec cars makes it less of a problem.

[wass]

On 7/16/2018 at 5:12 PM, CPN said:

Be careful of confusing UK & US mpg figures on Fuelly. Oh and I wouldn't agree that its mainly US people on there. Apart from bodywork/style, the US Prius C is identical to the Yaris Hybrid sold here.

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Yes, I do know the song about the Americans having little gallons and so too does fuelly since one can choose how data is displayed and so I am comparing like for like.

[wass]

I am glad that it isn't my imagination. So somehow the prius with a larger shaddow manages a better drag coefficient than the little yaris... or does drag coefficient relate to something like kg force per square cm of profile? So the QE2 , for the sake of illustration ,could have a drag coefficient of 0.3 despite it being so blooming big?I suppose also that if one cant store so much energy from coasting down hills and braking, then that is essentially wasted fuel. So it would make sense that the Yaris has less Battery capacity.

Tow valid reasons why the Yaris doesnt work so well as a hybrid as the prius....even  worse than the gen 2 prius with the same engine in a less developed state.

 Sorry guys , I didnt mean to set up a lets compare fuel economy sites  or Auris gearbox discussion but having provoked the response, its been interesting.

[QuantumFireball]

The statistics on the other website (see my first reply) suggests the Yaris Hybrid is more fuel efficient than the Gen 2 Prius (58 vs. 54 MPG average), and that's based on a drastically larger user base of Yaris owners so likely to be more accurate.

A Kammback design like the Prius (excl. Gen 1) has always traditionally achieved lower drag than a relatively flat hatchback like the Yaris.