NeilAndo71

Transmission fluid

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Hi

I recently bought an 2005 Aygo and the gears have become clunky. I want to check the transmission fluid level before taking it to a garage but can't find the dipstick/ top up cap. Any idea where it is or how to do this please?

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1 hour ago, NeilAndo71 said:

Hi

I recently bought an 2005 Aygo and the gears have become clunky. I want to check the transmission fluid level before taking it to a garage but can't find the dipstick/ top up cap. Any idea where it is or how to do this please?

Hello Neil,

A quick search, threw up an item posted on YouTube by a Polish forum member  kaliope  (Paul) who has done some very helpful and informative videos.

Check him and this out http:// https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5o8feLY6b0

 

Kind regards,

Bob Sutton.

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Thanks for that Bob. Looks pretty straight forward to change the Oil but I'm not sure that's the problem. Do you think its worth trying first before taking it in to the garage?

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21 minutes ago, NeilAndo71 said:

Thanks for that Bob. Looks pretty straight forward to change the oil but I'm not sure that's the problem. Do you think its worth trying first before taking it in to the garage?

Hello Neil,

I am not sure how to advise you (I can drive them, but not fix them). Perhaps other, more knowledgeable members, will come forward  to help you. It's obviously a lot cheaper to change the Oil than the gearbox.

I hope you get some help soon.

 

Kind regards,

Bob Sutton. 

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Can you first explain what you mean by gears becoming clunky, in greater detail?

There is no Oil level check on transmission, but rule of thumb says to open up the top (filler) hole, put a finger in it, if you feel the Oil, level is good. Some transmissions can have it maybe a cm or so under the Oil filler level, that's also fine.

 

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From a stand still I can engage first fairly easily but its not smooth ( a couple of wiggles and it goes). From first to second is more difficult and sometimes requires more force and then it clunks into place. Second to third is similar but not so bad. Above this its fine. Coming down is pretty similar and its difficult to go into first if the car is still moving ( not that I need to do that often). In and out of second is worst.

I bought the car in May and it was fine but the past couple of weeks this has all developed

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Is there any difference when the car is cold or warmed up?

What about car on vs car being off? 

Try to go through all gears with car off, then compare it with car being on. 

Does it slot into gear easier when the car is in motion vs car being still, but on?

 

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23 hours ago, furtula said:

Is there any difference when the car is cold or warmed up?

Seems to be more difficult to change when its warmed up and in motion

What about car on vs car being off? 

No noticeable difference but smoother like before when I bought the car

Try to go through all gears with car off, then compare it with car being on. 

No noticeable difference but smoother like before when I bought the car

Does it slot into gear easier when the car is in motion vs car being still, but on?

No its more difficult when the car is in motion

 

Thanks for you time on this Furtula

 

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Sounds like worn out synchros, that would explain it being mostly the lower gears. You can take it to the shop, but they will probably just say replace the whole box with a used one, as they dont want to bother with opening it up and replacing them.

Replacing the Oil might help. Do a bit of research, see if people had similar problems and which Oil they chose etc. The cost should not be that big, check owners manual for info about Oil weight, and how much you will need

My advice is to keep the original Oil in a clean container. It might happen that the new Oil will be worse than the new one. I had this happen to me, the gears became more notchy, and i know of another person on different forum saying he had even worse experience, so he put the original one back in.

Hopefully you wont have that issue. 

 

Replacing the Oil should be easy, usually just 2 bolts, easy to locate when under the car. Open the top one first, to make sure you can top up the Oil once drained out. 

Then open the bottom one, drain it out. Also get a set of washers to put on the bolts, usually they are from copper. If you cant find the right side, and you have the one that is "crushable" type, putting it under open flame should get it  back  to original state, so you can reuse it.

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Brilliant Furtula thanks. I now have a plan of attack....

Will change the Oil first. The you tube link above is a big help

If theres little or no change then take it in to the garage

Will update this when I get it all done and let you know how I got on.....

 

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Hello again Neil,

Just a little more background information for you. I bought my 2007 plate Aygo in July 2015 with just 11,000 miles on it. At first, I found the gear change to be very clunky, notchy, difficult etc. but though it was just me. After two weeks and trying to change my driving style (e.g. double-declutching, blipping the throttle on the down-change plus other small tweaks),  I decided to change the transmission Oil.

I used Fuchs Titan Sintofluid FE SAE 75W Synthetic (from Opie Oils). It made very little difference, if any at all.

I have got used to the gearbox. The car has done 36,000 miles now. Mine is worse when it's cold. I cannot rush the gear change between first and second. I now tend to change up at lower revs (approx 2000 rpm). 

The difference is, mine has always been like this but it would appear, yours is deteriorating. 

I really hope you get a resolution to your problem and one which doesn't cost and arm and a leg.

 

Kind regards,

Bob Sutton.

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Thanks for the info Bob

I have found Toyotas recommended Oil on eBay ( BRAND NEW GENUINE Toyota Gear Oil 1 Litre LV75 75w90 for £12.50 a litre. I need 1.7 litres) and it should arrive tomorrow or Thursday. As long as I can undo the refill and drain bolts then I should have a better idea by the weekend.

As a guide I checked online and a pre used gearbox on eBay seems to be around £200. Add on labour...... I have a good garage to go to so I'm confident of not getting ripped off if it comes to that.

The car has done 63000 miles and had 6 previous registered keepers so who knows whats been going on.

Lets hope the Oil change makes a difference.......

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Hello Neil,

Good luck with it. Don't forget the washers as mentioned by  furtula  and please post how you get on.

Kind regards,

Bob Sutton.

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They come in 2 sizes, so easier just get both, they cost pennies. 

I don't know the sizes now, but by Oil plug key used, one is for key 16, other 19, you will probably have the 1st one.

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Are engine Oil sump washers the same size as transmission Oil sump washers ?

I'm a bit confused at the moment.......

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Most probably they are the same. It's not that critical part and you can probably reuse the old one if need be. It's a crush type washer, put it under flame and it should pop up so it can be crushed again.

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Could it be the clutch cable that needs adjusted?  The clutch not fully disengaging would give difficult gear changes.

No harm with changing the Gearbox Oil, got mine changed at 60K with the exact same oil also from Opie that Bob used.  

Perhaps a bit late,  but did you get 75w or 75w-90 ?    The e-mail conversation I had with Opie at the time mentions that 75w is the correct grade (my manual says the same) whilst  75w-90 was for older Toyota gearboxes. 

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My manual says Toyota Genuine 75w-90 so thats what I got. If it doesn't work I'll have a go at the clutch cable

I'm still waiting for the washers to come although I have been under the car now and opened the top refill bolt and found a regular aluminium washer fitted so it would seem somebody has had a go at it in the past. I stuck my finger in and I'm not sure whether I felt Oil in the sump or just around the edge of the hole (the car was jacked up at the front so the fluid would be lower in the box) and the Oil was pale yellow so probably needs changed anyway.

I couldn't help noticing how rusty the sub frame was and around the wheel arches so rust converter and waxoyl have been ordered so I might just wait til I get all the bits and bobs together and have a right good go at this. I wonder what is going to be next....... but the good thing is I'm learning new stuff all the time

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Hi

I think the aluminium washer is the standard factory fit item. Not cooper.

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22 hours ago, NeilAndo71 said:

My manual says Toyota Genuine 75w-90 so thats what I got. If it doesn't work I'll have a go at the clutch cable

I'm still waiting for the washers to come although I have been under the car now and opened the top refill bolt and found a regular aluminium washer fitted so it would seem somebody has had a go at it in the past. I stuck my finger in and I'm not sure whether I felt oil in the sump or just around the edge of the hole (the car was jacked up at the front so the fluid would be lower in the box) and the oil was pale yellow so probably needs changed anyway.

I couldn't help noticing how rusty the sub frame was and around the wheel arches so rust converter and waxoyl have been ordered so I might just wait til I get all the bits and bobs together and have a right good go at this. I wonder what is going to be next....... but the good thing is I'm learning new stuff all the time

Not a big fan of the black gunk, it does not take long before a bit chips off, then it just traps water and makes things worse. I would rather advise on applying some grease, or used Oil, depending on the surface, it will collect dust and make it waterproof and keep away the rust. I'm doing it like this, but i noticed a lot of youtube mechanics who have professional shops also advise this method, and against the spray on coatings.

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What happend, did the Oil change fix the problem, because i got a similar problem ?

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No it didn't fix the problem but made the other gear changes a bit smoother. I have learnt to live with it and will get it checked properly next month when I get my service/MOT

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I agree with @Micra2Aygo in his post above. The clutch cable adjustment/free play on the Aygo is quite critical in the operation and longevity of the drivetrain.

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The problem is only going into 2nd gear. Everything else is fine. Could that still be the clutch cable?

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