Dancing Badger

Should I buy a plug in?

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Well done Mick, you made a good choice you won’t regret, and you got the red, like me, and it’s fantastic.  May 2017 I got an Auris Hybrid, 2010, loved it but I really wanted aPrius, so bought 2010 gen3 privately and let the wife have the Auris. I loved the gen3 so much I traded it in against a 66 plate Gen4 with 21k on clock just 6 months later, and everything you commented about your Gen4 I like about mine. It’s the most relaxing drive I ever had. Mpg, on the 100 mile journey from the dealer back home it did over 91mpg, it was height of summer, but Tuesday just gone it did 77.x mpg over a 43 mile return journey. I’m this colder weather the engine is kickin in more. The centre console I got used to, I try to keep it tidy, put things away in the arm rest box. At one time I hated the Gen4 touch screen looks, but got used to it and now it’s ok. Just wish the heated seat buttons were more accessible. Not too impressed with the heater, shudder to think what a really cold day will be like. Engine kicking in-out is barely noticeable to me, to a passenger even less, the gen3 was more noticeable but still very good. As for the sat nav, I would much prefer a standard Garmin screen, or TomTom, rather then what’s supplied with more features then I need. It works but could be better, but within the 5 months I had Gen4 my TomTom has been updated about 4 times and the Gen4 zero. 54 years after I started driving I feel I have found in the Gen4 what I been looking for..

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Yes, congrats Mick.  I agree with everything Joe said too.

I did a 250 mile round trip yesterday and found my TomTom (on a beanbag behind the steering wheel - sits nicely below the HUD) much better for traffic info.

I found the driving dynamics markedly better than by Gen 3 Prius, which itself had been one of my best cars ever for comfortable driving.

Heater: Joe - have you tried the different settings on the heater? - each time you press "AUTO" it cycles through ECO, Normal or Fast - the latter brings the engine on much more and will eat into mpg, although it's still not the fastest ever, but a Hybrid will always run cooler than many an 'ordinary' car!

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Good choice Mick. I have the business edition. I had the Sat/Nav upgraded to the best Toyota have when I purchased the car. Friends tell me the Tom Tom. is better I think they are right; even though Toyota Sat/Nav gets updated by the dealer it still does not have some new roads and has even taken me onto a dirt track. I have also.had a dash cam fitted. To get the best MPG keep your tyre pressures checked regularly.. I know you will enjoy the car, it is everything Joe and Pete have said.

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13 hours ago, Dancing Badger said:

 Of course the sat nav seemed as underwhelming as the one I have now - I think I'll be carrying on with the Tomtom on my phone.  Don't know why Toyota haven't moved on with that.

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Pete B: I did a 250 mile round trip yesterday and found my TomTom (on a beanbag behind the steering wheel - sits nicely below the HUD) much better for traffic info.

I do wonder how many people who complain about the traffic info on Touch 2 with Go are actually using the the traffic information over internet feature which is *provided by Tomtom* ...? I am not saying that it is a perfect system by any means but the vast majority of complaints/queries that I have seen over various forums etc. are from people who have never fully explored/customised/fully got to know the system.

The mapping provided by Here (& not just to Toyota but many other manufacturers - it is after all owned by BMW, Audi &  Daimler) is always going to be a minimum of 6 months (& more likely a year) behind the actual road situation.

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4 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

I do wonder how many people who complain about the traffic info on Touch 2 with Go are actually using the the traffic information over internet feature which is *provided by Tomtom* ...?

Yes I have done so sometimes, but it's not as clever at choosing the best route for the prevailing traffic conditions.  When I've had both running side-by-side the built in SatNav would cause extra lost time more often than not.  Plus it's a bit more hassle to use the Internet traffic for the car as I don't leave tethering enabled on my phone all the time.

Whereas the TomTom turns itself on as soon as I drop it on the magnetic base (assuming the car is at least in ACC mode) and everything works without further action from me (apart from setting destination or a multi-stop route, something else woefully lacking on the Toyota SatNav and which the Pocket PC-base software I was using 16 years ago did).

A 2012 Yaris T-Spirit I briefly owned came with a TomTom in the dash that could be removed, I'm surprised they didn't develop that route.  As a bonus you could watch DVDs on it whilst parked - great when waiting for someone.

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1 hour ago, PeteB said:

Yes I have done so sometimes, but it's not as clever at choosing the best route for the prevailing traffic conditions.  When I've had both running side-by-side the built in SatNav would cause extra lost time more often than not. 

Interesting

Plus it's a bit more hassle to use the Internet traffic for the car as I don't leave tethering enabled on my phone all the time.

Whereas the TomTom turns itself on as soon as I drop it on the magnetic base (assuming the car is at least in ACC mode) and everything works without further action from me

depending upon your phone you can set it so that the phone will automatically enable tethering when it detects the car & disable it when you move away/switch it off.

(apart from setting destination or a multi-stop route, something else woefully lacking on the Toyota SatNav and which the Pocket PC-base software I was using 16 years ago did).

Afaik you can do this but it has to be done on PC & sent to car. One of my pet hates about this system is that there is no pause/resume function e.g. if you decide to briefly divert off-route - all you can do is either terminate navigation entirely or disable audio to stop being nagged 😜 .

A 2012 Yaris T-Spirit I briefly owned came with a TomTom in the dash that could be removed, I'm surprised they didn't develop that route.  As a bonus you could watch DVDs on it whilst parked - great when waiting for someone.

Possibly it was too costly, possibly because screen sizes are growing above those that Tomtom makes units with. Toyota don't make their own systems so I suppose in theory Tomtom could tender for the work but with increasing integration of infotainment systems with car systems it probably makes more sense for somebody with a broader portfolio like Harman or Pioneer.

 

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Welcome to the Hypersonic Red club, Mick! I think it's a great colour and I hate red cars. It seems like it's really three colours in one as it can look like anything from dull brick red on a cloudy day to sparkling crimson in bright sunshine to a fabulous orangey pearl in the evening 'golden hour'. Mine also has a fourth colour - dull brown - but that's because I never wash it.

From what you described, I think you've made the right choice in going for the Gen4 ordinaire over the plug-in. Enjoy.

5 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

I do wonder how many people who complain about the traffic info on Touch 2 with Go are actually using the the traffic information over internet feature which is *provided by Tomtom* ...? I am not saying that it is a perfect system by any means but the vast majority of complaints/queries that I have seen over various forums etc. are from people who have never fully explored/customised/fully got to know the system.

The mapping provided by Here (& not just to Toyota but many other manufacturers - it is after all owned by BMW, Audi &  Daimler) is always going to be a minimum of 6 months (& more likely a year) behind the actual road situation.

Both very fair points, but the problem with the Toyota system isn't actually the traffic information - which, as you say, comes from TomTom anyway - or even the maps, which are updated pretty well. The problem is with the routing algorithm, which is beyond hopeless. As a knock on effect, the traffic info also becomes useless because the device will be showing you traffic info for the stupid route it's decided, rather than the one that you'll actually choose to follow!

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4 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

Both very fair points, but the problem with the Toyota system isn't actually the traffic information - which, as you say, comes from TomTom anyway - or even the maps, which are updated pretty well. The problem is with the routing algorithm, which is beyond hopeless. 

I disagree that the routing algorithm is beyond hopeless. I do agree that it certainly doesn't factor in things (le.g. speedbumps) that I (or probably another human) with local knowledge do in choosing roads & because the mapping is never fully up to date it can get caught out where roads have changed (e.g. one way system instituted). Also, the shortest route really does seem to be the shortest route which is interesting if e.g. that means taking you down a back lane to cut across when the main road loops further around a bend.

So what we seem to have imo is 2* extremes, quickest & shortest where probably many of us want a kind of hybrid route.

By comparison I was a volunteer VIP driver at the European Championships in Glasgow this summer, mostly in Vauxhall Zafira Tourers whose native satnav system was no better. On top of that we were also to use a commercial taxi software system that integrated with Waze for directions & which again didn't come up with routes that I would choose  - on a number of occasions it made mistakes (which luckily again with local knowledge could either be ignored or at least recovered). & it wasn't just me - on our 2 training days a no. of people switched theirs off & said we can't use this, it doesn't work ...

*at least on my routes the 3rd, Eco, is usually the same as fastest presumably as a result of fewer stop/starts & longer stretches in higher gears even if it is the longer route. 

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Should I buy a plug in? Hmm. In the cold light of day, a plug in costs about £7000 more than a non plug in prius. So how far will you have to drive before you've made up the difference? Well, just to make things really simple lets assume that you never ever buy petrol for the PHEV and all of your journeys are made using electricity which you've nicked by plugging your car into a street lamp. If petrol costs 1.28 per litre and you get 60mpg out of your usual prius, your £7000 buys 1203 gallons of petrol which will get you 72000 miles down the road.  Just looking at these very simplified figures, PHEV doesn't make sense yet. Petrol needs to get a lot more expensive and electricity needs to get a lot cheaper, also car owners need to hang onto their cars for longer and drive more  shorter journeys with 1 1/2hr intervals between journeys ( for recharging). So for the sake of payback, I dont think the PHEV is viable. For the sake of saving the planet, the PHEV actually consumes more of the earths resources in order to manufacture it. Charging up the PHEV consumes still more of the earths resources and installing the infrastructure to allow charging to occur in more locations entails consuming more of earths resources. In the meantime the conventional hybrid will continue to use earths resources and will continue to do so.My guess is that PHEVs need to catch on in a big way to acheive the potential of reducing the overall use of resources.

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You might be right Geof, but we're happy we made the choice :D

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22 hours ago, wass said:

Should I buy a plug in? Hmm. In the cold light of day, a plug in costs about £7000 more than a non plug in prius. So how far will you have to drive before you've made up the difference? Well, just to make things really simple lets assume that you never ever buy petrol for the PHEV and all of your journeys are made using electricity which you've nicked by plugging your car into a street lamp. If petrol costs 1.28 per litre and you get 60mpg out of your usual prius, your £7000 buys 1203 gallons of petrol which will get you 72000 miles down the road.  Just looking at these very simplified figures, PHEV doesn't make sense yet. Petrol needs to get a lot more expensive and electricity needs to get a lot cheaper, also car owners need to hang onto their cars for longer and drive more  shorter journeys with 1 1/2hr intervals between journeys ( for recharging). So for the sake of payback, I dont think the PHEV is viable. For the sake of saving the planet, the PHEV actually consumes more of the earths resources in order to manufacture it. Charging up the PHEV consumes still more of the earths resources and installing the infrastructure to allow charging to occur in more locations entails consuming more of earths resources. In the meantime the conventional hybrid will continue to use earths resources and will continue to do so.My guess is that PHEVs need to catch on in a big way to acheive the potential of reducing the overall use of resources.

I would agree with all of that. However, there's a couple of things worth bearing in mind:

Second-hand (as per the OP) the cost equation becomes rather more favourable for the PHV because its initial depreciation is so steep. After 18 months, they can actually be had for the same money as a comparable Gen4 ordinaire on 15s. At the time I bought it, mine was cheaper than any of the 15" ordinaires on sale. That still doesn't make a totally convincing financial argument, as the PHV depreciation curve is likely to remain steeper, but it's nowhere near as negative as the from-new comparison. For my mileage and journeys, I'd estimate my fuel savings as around £500 a year compared to a standard Gen4. When I can get a charger installed at work, that will add a few hundred quid more to the saving. Of course, that's just my use case, but I'm happy with those numbers. 

Regarding 'saving the planet' you're absolutely right about resource usage but for me, despite an appalling lack of concern shown by government and media until very recently, local pollution is as important to address as long-term climate change or over-consumption. The PHV lets me drive into town and back without emitting anything from the tailpipe. On my commute, I can ensure it emits nothing in any of the built-up areas I pass through. I like that. A standard Prius is good in this respect compared to most other cars, but it can't come close to the PHV. 

All that said, I actually bought mine over a Gen4 ordinaire primarily because the headlights looks cool and it has a carbon-fibre tailgate. Which just goes to show that there's more to car buying than logic and sense!

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Well I collected my shiny new toy today, and I'm chuffed to little mint balls with it! 😁 Pleased with the way it drives - it does feel quite different to (better than) the Auris. Found it very easy to get comfortable - I'm pleased to find that the arm rests are actually high enough that I can use them, unlike the Gen 3. I spent a little while in the driveway fiddling with menus, finding how to get the display I wanted and getting my phone paired and the sat nav to connect to the internet for traffic - I'll be experimenting with running it in parallel with my phone Tom Tom on some known routes to see how it compares on routing.  I was pleased to see that the map graphics are considerably better than they were on my Auris which I found difficult to read - they are clearer and less cluttered, and the contrast is better. Mileage is promising - 64.9 mpg since the first fill but I've only done about 30 miles  - still I wouldn't be anywhere near that in the Auris on the same trip. The radar cruise control is cool - felt very weird the first time it slowed down for a car in front - I find standard cruise control frustrating especially in motorway roadworks (which those of you who use the M6 a lot as I do will know means constantly) - this looks to be much better.

I found that the wireless charger can't keep up with the drain from the sat nav on the phone - not an issue if I find that I'm happy with the in-car sat nav, if not I'll just plug it in.  Oh, and I switched off the Road Sign Assist - it's as much use as a chocolate fireguard, half the time it displays the wrong limit when it displays anything at all - but all the other tech is tickety-boo so far. Only disappointment is the relative lack of storage space compared with the Auris, which itself compared poorly to the Gen 3 Prius - seems like Toyota shrink the internal storage space with every new model. If that's the only drawback I reckon I can live with it! I've a couple of days commuting then feet up for Christmas but I've a trip to Southampton on the 30th (I live in Manchester) so looking forward to seeing how it is on a long trip.

Happy days!

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15 minutes ago, Dancing Badger said:

I spent a little while in the driveway fiddling with menus, finding how to get the display I wanted and getting my phone paired and the sat nav to connect to the internet for traffic - I'll be experimenting with running it in parallel with my phone Tom Tom on some known routes to see how it compares on routing.

 Did they update it to the latest software/mapping for you?

seems like Toyota shrink the internal storage space with every new model.

Sadly, this seems to be my observation too ... 😞

 

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Did they update it to the latest software/mapping for you?

Well, they said they would, haven't checked to be honest.

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Hmm, looks like they haven't updated it, there's an update available (free, as it's not 3 years old yet) in My Toyota. I'm downloading that so I can update it

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