2019 Dynamic AWD fuel tank size question

[MrNuts]

Evening all. 

got my dyn Awd yesterday. Filled it with fuel and took it home today, ran the fuel level down to 15 miles range and the warning light was on, only managed to get 44 litres into it, thought it was a 55L tank.

wjats everyone else managing to get in theirs? Had a Mazda 6 a few years ago and it’s gauge was wildly pessimistic.  

or have Toyota just changed the tank size?thanks. 
 

Kevin. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota tends to err on the side of caution re low fuel warnings. Commonly they allow a good reserve for when the low fuel light activates, and looking at your figures, the low fuel light may be set to come on when 11 litres are remaining.

The full owners manual, which you can download from My Toyota, should tell you approx how much fuel remains when the low fuel light illuminates.

[MrNuts]

Many thanks. Kinda useless fuel range remaining then is that’s the case. 
 

will check it out though first before stranding myself 

[PeteB]

The most I've got in mine is 46.7 litres (10.27 imperial gallons).  I brim the tank each time so that I can just see the fuel, partly to minimise trips to the petrol station and partly trying to be consistent with my calculations.  On that fill I'd done 535 miles since my previous fill (52.1 mpg), the fuel gauge read approximately 6% remaining, 25 miles left.  My database calculated a remaining range of 95 miles to empty if the tank holds what Toyota says and 1.8 gallons left. 

This is consistent with previous Toyota Hybrids I've owned, and reports Toyota play it safe to minimise the risk of running the tank dry.

The mk1 Prius only had a digital fuel gauge with 10 'blobs', the last of which started flashing when a low level was reached, but was easy to miss.  A single ding and message on the centre screen advised to "add fuel"  (in French as well) with no further reminders when cleared.  The most I did after this was 30 miles (with a calculated ¼ gallon remaining), and a few people claimed up to nearly 50, but a couple managed to run out.  I can't vouch for how true it is, but there has been the odd (rare) report of people running out on more recent Hybrid versions and wrecking the HV Battery as a result.  So if you do experiment, be careful!

[Scottydog007]

I’ve noticed this on both my 2018 and 2019 Rav4. Both would only give a warning of low fuel with 20 miles to go until zero, and as you say there was still loads of fuel in the tank. What I do when I refuel, I take notice of the fuel range. I am used to having vehicles with large fuel tanks, so I was disappointed that the 2018 RAV4 gave me a fuel range of 330 miles only till I needed to refuel.

For the RAV4 2019 I get a 530 mile range, a massive difference. You would think may be the 2019 has a larger fuel tank, but the specifications show it is 1 litre smaller. So basically there has been a massive improvement in engine/battery management. The 2019 was averaging 43 mpg the 2018 to 35 mpg for the same driving conditions.

In the cold weather my 2018 RAV4 went down to 33 mpg, so I assume my 2019 will also reduce, but yet to have cold weather to find out.

Incidentally my 2019 is naturally a lot faster than 2018 RAV4. For the 2018 I would often put it into sports mode, but for 2019 I do not need to do this as it is has all the power that I need in normal mode.

[PeteB]

I found the same when I went from the 3rd generation to 4th Gen Prius - the claimed tank size dropped by 2 litres, but I was getting over 100 extra miles per tankful - usually over 600 miles per tank.

Whilst many are pleased with their 2019 RAV4 mpg, it comes as a bit of a shock to me (though not unexpected) after being used to over 80 mpg on summer cross country runs, and overall average of 63½.  If I still did more longer runs and fewer short trips as I did before retirement, I expect the overall average would have stayed above 70! - not bad for a decent sized 5 seater.

As the cold/wet weather has started to arrive, my recent average on the RAV4 has dropped to around 45 mpg (these are figures calculated by me, not the car's computed one - although the computed figures are averaging about 2% optimistic, Vs 5% on all previous Toyotas I've driven).

[philip42h]

The RAV 4 has traditionally had around a 10 litre 'reserve'. Both my 4.3 and current 4.4 have 60 litre tanks - if I drive until I have zero range remaining, the needle is off the bottom of the gauge and keep on driving, I'd stll never be able to get much more that 50 litres in. It would appear that that tradition continues with the 4.5 ...

Enjoy! 🙂

 

[MrNuts]

Thanks for the responses guys, second day in the RAV and i'm loving it. Fuel guage aside.

[MrBee]

6 hours ago, PeteB said:

As the cold/wet weather has started to arrive, my recent average on the RAV4 has dropped to around 45 mpg (these are figures calculated by me, not the car's computed one - although the computed figures are averaging about 2% optimistic, Vs 5% on all previous Toyotas I've driven).

Hi. It's a bit worrying that an experienced hybrid driver like you is only getting 45mpg.

What was it in the dry and warm weather? 

[PeteB]

17 minutes ago, MrBee said:

Hi. It's a bit worrying that an experienced hybrid driver like you is only getting 45mpg.

What was it in the dry and warm weather? 

Firstly, some people use what I would regard as extreme techniques and do better then me, but I keep my cruising down to 60 on the clock where speed limits and conditions permit, stay in ECO mode 99% of the time and ECO Climate Control 100% of the time.  I let the car do a lot of my accelerating on the ACC, which in ECO mode is pretty leisurely.

Until late August I was averaging 52, and on a 250 mile round trip on 17 July I got 58.4 (which generally seems to be within 2% accuracy - much more accurate that previous Toyotas).  That included some local running around at during the day as well (in similar conditions the Prius would have managed mid 80s!) - though it's average optimism was 5%.

The key thing with my driving is that in a typical day I do between 5 and 14 short hops, mostly cold starts, and many under 4 miles.  This will not help at all.  Also, in a month I now only average 1, maybe 2 longer trips that bring the average up.  When I had my original Gen 1 Prius 17 years ago, I had a 40 mile each way cross country commute to work, at least one 600 mile weekend trip a month, and my mpg barely dropped at all during the winter.

It's interesting to compare - in 1977 I had a Fiat 126 for 1 year/12,000 miles, which weighed almost nothing (smaller than the original mini!) and had a 600cc, 24hp, air cooled lawn mower engine in the boot.  Claimed 0-60 time was 60 seconds (yes - 1 minute!) - except in a head wind when I never got to 60!  That averaged 42 mpg overall in the year (you had to thrash it to slip stream milk floats, etc), in a car that would almost fit in the boot of the RAV4 (with the seats down, of course).  

[Heidfirst]

11 hours ago, MrNuts said:

Many thanks. Kinda useless fuel range remaining then is that’s the case. 

In my experience Toyota range remaining typically counts down to reserve rather than empty. I don't find it an issue once you are aware of it.

It is typical Toyota caution as from what I understand restarting a fuel-exhausted hybrid is not an easy "just add fuel" operation.

[PeteB]

Just now, Heidfirst said:

In my experience Toyota range remaining typically counts down to reserve rather than empty. I don't find it an issue once you are aware of it...

Good point, and I have the same view, being aware of it.

Just now, Heidfirst said:

It is typical Toyota caution as from what I understand restarting a fuel-exhausted hybrid is not an easy "just add fuel" operation.

From speaking to people I've actually met (we had Prius owner 'meets' in the early days), a couple of people who actually did it (on original Mk 1 Prius) had no problems, because it was obvious (red triangle and other warning lights) and they pulled over pretty promptly (using only a little HV Battery juice).  I believe it needed 2+ gallons to persuade the system to restart.

I've heard less reliable reports that later models didn't highlight it, and weren't aware they'd run out until the car stopped with a badly depleted HV Battery, that wouldn't restart the car, or at best needed something to be reset by a dealer (or maybe these days someone with a Techstream or similar).  I must emphasise though, I can't vouch for this.

In the early days, a lot of us regarded it as a bit of a challenge to see who could go the furthest after the low fuel warning without running out, but since the stories of later cars (which may or may not have substance) I don't play that game any more.

[PeteB]

and it's not just us who are noticing the mpg drop...

 

[duncerduncs]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd bump this one....

There is now an ongoing legal case in the USA regarding the issue of not being able to completely fill the car up.  I wonder if this is the same issue that has caused some owners to experience low range in their cars?

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/2019-2020-toyota-rav4-hybrid-fuel-tank-issue-lawsuit.shtml

 

[PeteB]

Since my post above (Oct 17 [1st one]) the most I've pumped in is 46.86 litres (10.31 UK Gals, 12.3 US Gals), after which the fuel gauge has pointed about 10% above the maximum position.  I usually do nearly 100 miles before the gauge 'only' reads 100%.

I've filled 19 times since I took delivery on 21 June, and have had 5 tank fulls where I've exceeded 500 miles.  On three of those, adding in the car's reported range would have given me 560-573 miles, but my calculated possible range if I ran the tank dry and the capacity is what Toyota says and I'd really filled it to that capacity would have been 630-647.

If I did several long journeys on the same tank in the summer in ideal conditions (which is unlikely these days), I could probably get well over 600 miles in reality.

I usually trickle the last ½ gallon or so in after the pump starts cutting out.

[2bikes]

As duncerdunc says above ,one online review  by a US car mag mentioned a design issue with the filler neck to the tank which  triggers the pump nozzle to keep cutting out prematurely so tanks not actually full .

[Tee2022]

Hi, I have recently brought a rav4 dynamic hybrid and when I filled up the tank to full it was shadowing 407 miles, so far I have driven 43 miles and now the tank reading is showing as 348 miles left. Do these reading look wrong? As judging by everyone else it should be much better. I get around 37mpg with a mixture of motorway and local which isn’t great? Any advice would help 

[ernieb]

Looks about right, very much depends on temperature, topography, driving style, speed etc.

[Strangely Brown]

On 2/13/2020 at 10:09 AM, PeteB said:

Since my post above (Oct 17 [1st one]) the most I've pumped in is 46.86 litres (10.31 UK Gals, 12.3 US Gals), after which the fuel gauge has pointed about 10% above the maximum position.  I usually do nearly 100 miles before the gauge 'only' reads 100%.

I've filled 19 times since I took delivery on 21 June, and have had 5 tank fulls where I've exceeded 500 miles.  On three of those, adding in the car's reported range would have given me 560-573 miles, but my calculated possible range if I ran the tank dry and the capacity is what Toyota says and I'd really filled it to that capacity would have been 630-647.

If I did several long journeys on the same tank in the summer in ideal conditions (which is unlikely these days), I could probably get well over 600 miles in reality.

I usually trickle the last ½ gallon or so in after the pump starts cutting out.

Also. Why? Unless you are making a journey that requires that amount of fuel with none available along the way, what is the point of trying to squeeze as much in the filler neck as possible?

Maybe it's just me but I just don't get it.

The tank holds 55 litres. There is a bit more in the filler neck. The gauge shows the fuel remaining but allows a bit of a reserve for safety. The car will happily do around 500 miles in normal driving so, really, I don't see the problem here.

[Marcusthehat]

What is the issue with running a petrol engine out of fuel?

As in I would have imagined Toyota should have designed in engine/battery  management protocals to prevent damage to the traction Battery in the event of measured/anticipated zero fuel remaining, and why would a petrol engine be difficult to start anyway?

Is this perhaps connect with the (and I am guessing here) direct? injection nature of the modern Toyota engine?

 

[Tee2022]

Hi guys, the above posts are saying in full tank you should get over 500miles, mine is showing as 407 when I fill up? Could there be something wrong 

[philip42h]

15 hours ago, Tee2022 said:

Hi, I have recently brought a rav4 dynamic hybrid and when I filled up the tank to full it was shadowing 407 miles, so far I have driven 43 miles and now the tank reading is showing as 348 miles left. Do these reading look wrong? As judging by everyone else it should be much better. I get around 37mpg with a mixture of motorway and local which isn’t great? Any advice would help 

9 minutes ago, Tee2022 said:

Hi guys, the above posts are saying in full tank you should get over 500miles, mine is showing as 407 when I fill up? Could there be something wrong 

Maybe, maybe not ...

The tank holds 55L. The estimated range shown is based on burning ~90% of that at your recent actual consumption rate - ~10% is held in 'reserve'.

Current WLTP figures given quite a good estimation of actual consumption for the average driver - but actual consumption will vary quite widely with driving style, conditions and journey profile.

The WLTP figure for the RAV4.5 is around 47 mpg. 90% of 55L is around  11 gallons giving a [WLTP] range of 517 miles per tank. (I never see that - for me tank range is 490-500 miles).

A tank range of 407 miles works out at 37 mpg which is a bit low but not unreasonable for short hilly journeys. (I can see per trip figures in the 20s but my overall average is around 45 mpg.)

Basically you need to see what you get for the second tank ... 😉

[forkingabout]

So Toyota design a fuel system with a decent safety reserve to stop people running out of fuel risking inconvenience & an expensive repair bill. - owners then complain the low fuel warning light comes on to early as theres still 10 litres left in the tank 🙄

FWIW my previous Peugeot was exactly the same, low fuel warning light came on when there was approximately 10 litres left in the tank.

Low fuel warning light comes on = I add fuel.

Up to you, add fuel or just ignore it & carry on driving if your feeling lucky 🤣

If you then run out of fuel you cannot say the vehicle didn't warn you.

[ColinB]

My RAV4 is averaging 46mpg at the moment (according to the display), with individual trips varying from 20mpg (short journey on a very cold morning) to 50mpg plus on a longer journey. It did do 50-60mpg over the summer, in those good, old, warm days.

I now fill up when the tank drops to half full, this reduces the financial pain and means that if that's another petrol shortage I've enough to keep going for a couple of months without worrying. I'm aware there's a penalty for carrying the extra weight, but I'd rather have the extra safety factor.

[Iain_M]

My wife mentioned to me that the RAV needed to be filled cos she had 'forgotten to do it'. The car was showing low fuel and she had been running around like that for a few days, not sure what mileage she did. Anyway, I trundled along to the garage and noted the range stated 18 miles left in the tank I filled the tank up and managed to get 48.04 lts into it. If the tank is indeed a 55 lt tank then there was just under 7 lt left in the tank. Seems 18 miles range left was a bit pessimistic, however, I don't intend to run the tank down to see if I can get it to zero miles left lol.