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olddriver

Please explain fixed versus independent sat navs to a dummy?

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I intend to buy a new Toyota and would like to know the pros and cons of having a fixed sat nav in the car versus buying an independent sat nav, bearing in mind that I think a fixed sat nav costs about £1000 and an independent one a couple of hundred, plus I believe the fixed one requires costly updates?  I don't need and don't really want to pay for internet or phone connection in my car.  Most of my driving does not require me to use a map, although I suppose live traffic jam reports could very occasionally be useful, although having been stuck in a jam several times on the motorway when the accident had just happened, it would not then be any good.  

I have a pay-as-you-go phone, that I leave in the car for emergencies.  I also have a pay-as-you-go cheap smart phone, but it is a pain to use.

I would appreciate some advice and or perhaps a link to appropriate advice?

Some questions:-

1. Am I right in thinking that an independent sat nav uses gps and doesn't need a phone connection?  Does a sat nav fixed in a car use gps or the internet, G00GLE etc.  I note that I have seen an independent sat nav that has a built-in SIM, so I suppose that needs a phone connection to work?  I realise that one disadvantage of an independent sat nav is that it will obscure some of the view out of the windscreen.  Also I assume an independent sat nav gets its power from the cigar lighter, so there will be stray wires on the dash?

2. Once I buy the independent sat nav, are there any further updating charges?  I think I've read that Toyota charges £300 to update the installed sat nav after 3 years, is that correct?

3.  When I come to sell the car, would having a fixed sat nav be an advantage even if it is not up to date?  Is it a simple job to install a fixed sat nav at a later date, in a car that never had a fixed sat nav?  I assume that most people today will usually only buy a car with an installed sat nav, especially as using one is part of the driving test!


 

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Both built in (fixed) and stand alone (independent) sat navs use GPS.

A phone connection is useful where the sat nav is capable of receiving traffic information, etc. For example our current Garmin uses a phone app and connects to the sat nav via bluetooth, rather than having a sim. We can also receive e-mails on the sat nav with this connection method.

As regards updates, new Toyotas currently receive three years free updates. Stand alone sat navs can come with 'lifetime updates - lifetime being what the sat nav manufacturer considers to be the life of the sat nav. For example in 2018 TomTom dropped approx 60 sat navs from their update system as they considered the units to have reached the end of their life.

A car having a built in sat nav may be more attractive to buyers, but it wouldn't be worth fitting one in order to obtain a sale. There are still plenty of cars out there with no built in sat nav.

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Hi.  I can only speak for what we get in the UK.

  1. As Frosty says, the built-in one doesn't need a phone connection, but on the UK versions fitted for quite a few years you can get much better traffic data if you link it to a data-enabled phone.  Otherwise, it uses RDS-TMC (Traffic Message Channel, part of the Radio Data System).  In my experience, TMC traffic is about as much good as the traffic bulletins readout by radio presenters, and about as up-to-date (in other words, not very!).  The only benefit is it's displayed on the car's SatNav screen and can generate warning messages if your route is affected.  Internet traffic is better, but it's diversion routing and traffic data quality does not match my TomTom, even though Toyota is reputed to get their traffic data from TomTom.
     
  2. In the UK, after 3 years Toyota updates have typically been around GBP £110 each.  In addition to the built-in SatNav, I have a 5 year old TomTom which sits on a TomTom beanbag on top of the dash.  The magnetic mount is connected to the 12V socket and as soon as the TomTom is dropped onto the mount, or if the car is turned on while it is mounted, it fires up, and shuts down again when removed or the car is turned off.  Very convenient.  Typically, the free updates last about 8-10 years if you buy the machine near the beginning of it's availability.  Mine includes 4 free map updates a year (generally much more up to date than Toyota's), and has a built-in SIM card to get free EU wide traffic data for the life of the machine too.  The traffic data has been the best I've ever experienced, and I rely on it so much I always use the SatNav even on routes I know well, and allow it to divert me without asking.  More recent models than mine have also included 'lifetime' free traffic camera updates too.  From what I hear, recent Garmin SatNavs are at least as good as the TomTom.
     
  3. Again, I agree with Frosty in that a built in SatNav might make the car very slightly more attractive, but it will barely affect the selling price.  Adding it to a car that didn't have it fitted at the factory is usually prohibitively expensive, even if possible.

A built-in SatNav is certainly more convenient, and very unlikely to be stolen, but the gulf between the quality of the maps, routing and traffic means I would not have paid more than about £100 extra to get it had my last 4 Toyotas not come with it as standard.

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On 2/26/2020 at 4:27 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

1975 Toyota Century gas turbine hybrid. The gas turbine was used to charge a bank of batteries that in turn powered two electric motors, one for each of the front wheels.

 

Thanks Frosty, and Pete.

In 1963 the Rover BRM Gas Turbine car was the first gas-turbine powered vehicle to compete in the le Mans 24 hours race and would have come eighth but as an experimental car was unplaced.  In 1965 however, it was officially classified as a 2-litre vehicle and driven by Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill, who on driving it for the first time reportedly said, ‘it sounds as if you’ve got a 707 just behind you, about to suck you up and devour you like an enormous monster.’ 😀

EDIT:  The le Mans was not on UK tv in those days, and I seem to remember that there were specific times when bbc radio gave updates throughout the 2 days, of course nothing overnight and I think that we had to wait until 10 on the Sunday morning to learn who had survived the night.  There was a lot of British interest in those days because Jaguar had wone a few races in the 1950s with the XK120, C type and D types.
 

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Three of the Rover gas turbine cars are housed at the British Motor Museum, Gaydon, and are usually on display. The last time I was there, Toyota had their Toyota Carina E in the workshop on the ground floor of the collections hall, which they label 'number 1'.

 

33074078551_df09fc3470_b.jpg

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36361753671_1728e5a22e_b.jpg

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On 2/28/2020 at 1:28 AM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Three of the Rover gas turbine cars are housed at the British Motor Museum, Gaydon, and are usually on display.

 

33074078551_df09fc3470_b.jpg

 

As the old 3 litre Rovers of that period go, I rather like the look of that light blue/turquoise Rover, it's a shame that they didn't use that body Shell for a sporty road going 3 litre version.

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3 hours ago, stevecrvn said:

This is JET 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_JET1

This was a really replicar in Rover Fest a few years ago image.thumb.png.c191ae510fc52460031163c117bfa463.png

I vaguely seem to remember that car, again a shame that they didn't make a roadgoing 3 litre version, it looks Bentley-ish.

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a few years ago i used to watch a program by the name of chop shop

in 1 episode they recreated a Jet1 for jools holland

 

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