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boogie

help needed withy brakes system

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hi every one, I hope u guys can help.

I have a 2006 avensis with braking issues. the brake peddle sinks to the floor after the car stops, but please read for the full description. I have had the master cylinder changed but the issue stays.

 

2006 avensis with traction control and stability control and abs.

brand new OEM master cylinder on it, and brakes blead at the same point.

brake fluid has not dropped in the reservoir.

when the car is started and I pump the brakes the peddle starts to firm up, only to sink again(while pressure is still been applied, but not been pumped)

when the car is off and I pump the brakes the peddle firms up and stays firm, only to sink when I start the car(this tells me booster is working correctly??)

 

its my wifes car and the issue seams to be getting worse. all the info I came across leads me to the mater cylinder or a leak somewhere, but I don't think so as ive had the master replaced and the fluid has not dropped. 

 

any help in the right direction to follow would be a absolute god send. 

so if anyone knows anything like my situation help would be truly appreciated.

 

many thanks jonathan 

 

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I'm not an Avensis owner, but I believe there is a known rust problem on the rear brake pipes where they pass behind the rear wheel arch liner.  If yours is the model this affects, then it is a case of when, not if, they will rot out. 

Because the pipes are concealed it may be beyond the scope of an MoT tester to pull back the liner to inspect this.

An Avensis owner will be along shortly to confirm or deny this, I'm sure.....

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thanks Greg

the car has passed the mot end of November. I recall something about this on the preface lift models, and as I say the fluid has not dropped so I ruled out a leak. but I will into this and im willing to look into all possibilities.

 

thanks again

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Whoops!  I did read your whole post, just forgot that bit about not losing fluid whilst was pondering the problem.

Konrad will probably see your post sometime, he knows these braking systems well.

In the meantime, I wonder if you have air in the ABS unit?  It can be a b@stard to bleed out it out once it's in there.

I think that using a vacuum bleeder (e.g. Gunson's) can help, or a using vacuum and pump-pedal bleeding at the same time.

Or the above with the ignition on (suggested to me by a Jap specialist garage for a similar problem on a 2001 Corolla - I ended up doing all three at once).

I have an idea that the ABS pump can be operated via an OBD2 diagnostic program (e.g. Toyota Techstream) to exercise the ABS unit whilst you bleed it, if it was this. 

Konrad will know!

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It's the servo and/or check valve if it's a diesel i would also be checking the vacuum pump and associated pipe work

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thanks greg

 

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thanks flash 22

I pump the brake then the car is off and the peddle goes hard, sinks again when I start the car. doent this mean its ok?, ive heard something about a atmospheric valve in it that can be faulty, but it was a quick read on another feed. And its a 1.8 petrol.

thanks for the help

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9 hours ago, boogie said:

thanks flash 22

I pump the brake then the car is off and the peddle goes hard, sinks again when I start the car. doent this mean its ok?, ive heard something about a atmospheric valve in it that can be faulty, but it was a quick read on another feed. And its a 1.8 petrol.

thanks for the help

I would bleed the brakes again, there may still be air in the system.

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Thanks bernard

I bled the brake many times, last when I changed the master cylinder. But I think I might get a pressure bleeder and try it again before I look into a booster, they so expensive.

 

Thanks 

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Thanks to all have replied, if anyone has more info to help along it is appreciated. 

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Remove the non return aka one way valve on the booster pipework, suck and blow on the valve it should only work in one direction

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9 hours ago, boogie said:

Thanks bernard

I bled the brake many times, last when I changed the master cylinder. But I think I might get a pressure bleeder and try it again before I look into a booster, they so expensive.

 

Thanks 

Jonathan go into Micks Garage site, there is a great (how to) on using a pressure bleeder.

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20 hours ago, flash22 said:

Remove the non return aka one way valve on the booster pipework, suck and blow on the valve it should only work in one direction

Thanks flash,

I definitely will do. Is it as easy as pulling the pipe off, checking it and replacing it? And if it is faulty can you direct me where to get a new one? I'm struggling to find one on the Web. 

I'm gona get it done this coming weekend and will let u know the result.

 

Thanks for the help. 

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Thanks Bernard

I saw one that uses the spare wheel to supply the pressure, that I might get. 

Thanks for your time. 

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11 hours ago, boogie said:

Thanks Bernard

I saw one that uses the spare wheel to supply the pressure, that I might get. 

Thanks for your time. 

No worries, keep us informed on the progress you made.

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Hi guys

I've bled the brakes again, pumping a liter of fluid through the system no air bubbles.

I checked the the non return valve and it seams to be working. 

So I've eliminated the master brake cylinder and the brake booster and if there's any leaks in the system. 

 

Yet the peddle still sinks after the car has stopped. 

The only other thing connected to the system is the abs. I have no dash lights coming on and there is no codes(I only have a basic reader). 

Any other thoughts on this? 

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